Titles in the Royal Family

[Apoarttc]

Hi there,

 

I have searched but I haven't found any related topic on this matter, so I hope it's ok to open a new one.

So, reading Fire and Blood I have come across something that I already had noticed but forgot:

In the books, the daughters of Prince Daemon by Laena Velaryon are named Lady Baela and Lady Rhaena. As I see that all other memebers of the royal family who are not kings or queens are titled as Princes or Princesses, I wondered why the two of them were mere ladies.

 

So my theory is that the Prince/Princess titles are only for sons and daughters of kings, or by the granchildren of reining kings. That is, for example, that Valarr, Matarys, Daeron, Aerion, Aemon, Aegon, Rhae, Daella, Aelor, Aelora, etc. are all Princes/Princesses as they are grandchildren to reigning king Daeron II, but Baela and Rhaena were born when Daemon's brother was reining, so they are just laidies.

 

Is this possible? Has any other explanation been given that I might have missed?

 

Thank you!

 

[VVSINGOFTHECROSS]

Maybe GRRM got sloppy?

[Apoarttc]

But I think he would get sloppy if they were just mentioned in passing, but they are main characters in the Dance of Dragons and Aegon III's reign.

[Bernie Mac]

Baela's father and grandfather were Princes, her  great grandfather was King. In the current British royal family

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Sarah_Chatto

is the daughter of Princess Margaret and the granddaughter of King George IV. 

Or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zara_Tindall is the granddaughter to the current Queen

Now both women could be Princess's, but the monarch would have to bestow that title on them, rather than them being born with it. 

 

 Moondancer. Baela had escaped the men who tried to seize her and had made her way to her dragon. And as Aegon II sought to land in the courtyard of the castle on Sunfyre, thinking himself triumphant, the dragon and the princess rose to meet him.

During the Dance they were Princess's, I imagine Aegon II's victory and the Regents, stripped them of their titles (if its not simply a case of lazy editing). 

[The Wondering Wolf]

48 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Moondancer. Baela had escaped the men who tried to seize her and had made her way to her dragon. And as Aegon II sought to land in the courtyard of the castle on Sunfyre, thinking himself triumphant, the dragon and the princess rose to meet him.

During the Dance they were Princess's, I imagine Aegon II's victory and the Regents, stripped them of their titles (if its not simply a case of lazy editing). 

I am pretty sure the princess thing here is a mistake. I think Elio confirmed that once.

[Lord Varys]

It seems that the grandchildren of kings still are princes, but the great-grandchildren are not. It is the same with Laena and Laenor Velaryon. It would be interesting, though, if Rhaenyra was thus also not styled princess between her birth and her father's ascension to the Iron Throne (or at least until Jaehaerys I named Viserys his heir and made him Prince of Dragonstone). But we have no information on that.

On that note, it is rather interesting that neither Aegon nor Aemon, the sons of Prince Viserys, are referred to as 'princes' in the last chapter of FaB. That could be significant and if what we say above is true then both the Unworthy and the Dragonknight and Naerys may not have been prince(sse)s for the majority of their lives, unless, of course, Aegon III and Viserys decided to count their royal mother as a ruling monarch after all (which is actually what FaB implies).

If that wasn't the case then their styling should have only changed when Viserys II rose to the Iron Throne - or, perhaps, when Baelor the Blessed named his uncle his heir (assuming he ever did that). It might also be that Aegon III granted his brother Dragonstone as his seat later in life, at first as his presumptive heir, and later perhaps to give him and his sons a seat of their own. Around the time of his death Aegon III wouldn't have expected that his brother's line would ever ascend to the Iron Throne. Could very well be that another attempt was made to make Dragonstone the (hereditary) seat of a cadet branch of House Targaryen (as was implied back when Maegor was 'the Prince of Dragonstone' and then later when Rhaena held the island, indicating that her daughter Aerea may have succeeded her there had she lived).

I don't think Viserys would have been happy had he been basically a landless prince throughout his entire life. Nor do I think that's likely in light of the closeness between Aegon III and his little brother there. Not to mention that Prince Daeron may have received the land and the money to build Summerhall while his grandfather was still around. I imagine that happened around the time of Daeron and Myriah's marriage.

[Apoarttc]

@Lord Varys  oh I hadn't thought about the whole grandchild great-grandchild thing, it does makes sense. And I also wonder which were Viserys' children titles. Can't recall righ now how they are addressed when mentioned prior to their father's reign.

So, if a king's great-grandaughter is addressed as "Lady" (the common title for any ruling or non-ruling hghborn woman), a great-grandosn would be called just by their name, or with a Ser if they were knighted, as in any other highborn man?

[Lord Varys]

Oh, I got back to the titles thing and the Dragonknight is referred to as a prince at one point, so that's that. I guess this means Rhaenyra has to be counted as a ruling monarch for the whole thing to make sense.