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The Last Kingdom III - HOLD ON TO YOUR SWORD (SPOILERS SEASONS 1-4)


Corvinus85

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2 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

It's not a Trainwreck, we're just bugged by a few internal inconsistencies, the odd nit-pick and one pointless and batshit plot that lasted a couple of episodes. All will be forgiven within a week or two anyway.

 

If you can take... anything in your list, then you can take this show.

Are you implying that Spartacus Blood & Sand was not almost documentarial in its historical  accuracy? :P

I’ll give TLK a chance. I like the books even if they’re a pale shadow of the Warlord Chronicles, and feel a bit formulaic later on.

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10 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

I was planning on watching this as part of my historical film/show binge (done Troy, 300, Spartacus Blood & Sand, Rome, Passion of the Christ (because wtf not), and now on Britannia.)

After that, will watch Pompei and Gladiator before starting Thr Last Kingdom.

But from the sound of it, the last season sounds like a trainwreck struck by a falling plane.

If you can stomach Pompey and Brittania :ack: you will certainly enjoy this. Season one is particularly strong. It has great actors (pretty much everyone barring the guy who plays Uthred, but even he is serviceable), better fighting choreography than most shows and quite a tight plot.

I remember that my major gripe with that season was that they made a jump in the ante-penultimate episode by skipping an important part of the book which they didn't adequately compensate for. Still it's a rare thing that your major complaint about a show was that they needed one more episode to make it airtight.

On top of all of that, It was also incredibly well directed. These two scenes in particular are seared into my memory (don't click or watch it, because spoilers galore obviously)

Spoiler

Guthrum's baptism

 

The battle of Edington

Especially the final part, which is unfortunately cut by this dunce, with the freeze frame ending on Alfred is just beautiful work

The next three seasons are much weaker. Part of that has to do with the books, as they also get weaker as they continue. As you said, they are quite formulaic and he is pumping them out at a rate of almost one per year. Still, I feel the drop in quality in the show goes beyond that.

The fight choreography has become more Hollywood, which is the same thing we have seen a thousand times before (and done better to boot). The new actors are nice but they lack the caliber of (to name but a few examples)

Spoiler

David Thewles, Adrian Bower and Thomas W. Gabrielsson

The plots tend to meander more, they are just a tad more ridiculous and drawn out. The worst offense of all however, is that this show has become substantially dumber. More action driven (despite the fact that fight choreography has become poorer) and less concerned with the major themes about identity and the forging of England. That really drags the latter seasons down

Spoiler

Like, the first season had its dumb moments too. One of the scenes I singled out as one of my favorites was particularly bad on that front, with Uthred literally leaping over a shield wall. Still, that was a moment of dramatic tension the show earned by being so smart in earlier parts.

If the ratio of dumb to smart moments is reserved however, dramatic moments like that just fall flat on their face. Suspension of disbelief stops somewhere. 

 The fourth season of TLK was terrible on that front since it really dipped into self-parody after a while. 

Spoiler

Particularly with the villains that's becoming a noticeable problem. Can't say I recall noticing that in earlier seasons, but here I really can't take either Cnut or Sygtrig very serious. Constantly growling like they are at a Vin Diesel imitator contest, the exaggerated swagger walks, the incessant yelling and tongue licking.

 

4 hours ago, Zorral said:

.  I mean really -- if they think Gladiator was the best, this is at least as historically accurate as that. :P

Please, this might be a little more accurate than Gladiator, but it's hardly doing more than hit the major beats. By stark contrast, at least Gladiator makes up for what it lacks in historical accuracy with breathtaking action, deep themes and some of the best performances in film history.

Historical accuracy is to be lauded, but if the story itself is universal enough, you can get passed deficiencies on that front. The whole is bigger than its parts after all. If the entire machine fails to convince however, than the many little deficiencies become far more noticeable. That's what for me at least was the problem with TLK.

4 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

I don't think anyone on this forum is pissed off at the Æthelflæd plot in terms of story, just maybe execution. Same with how everything played out by the end.

Ay exactly, definitely the execution that was flawed here. 

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10 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

I was planning on watching this as part of my historical film/show binge (done Troy, 300, Spartacus Blood & Sand, Rome, Passion of the Christ (because wtf not), and now on Britannia.)

After that, will watch Pompei and Gladiator before starting Thr Last Kingdom.

But from the sound of it, the last season sounds like a trainwreck struck by a falling plane.

I just finished episode 8, and Season 4 is probably better than Season 3 so far (Season 3 was let down by a really major character who was played by a really bad actress, but was otherwise pretty good).

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For me, the real problem with S02 was budget and book.

Do much of that phase of the story is set on and with longboats - which they just couldn't afford to do properly.

 

Until the last 2 episodes, the problem with S04 was the Hollywood battles - as you say, we've seen a battle that consists of a hundred 1-on-1 fights hundreds of times before, with bigger budgets and better trained actors. What really set this series apart on the fight front was the shield walls - never seen properly before. This season they decided to ditch their (mostly brilliant) USP and go for a cheap version of what everyone else does.

It's the last 2 episodes that jump the shark - but not enough to be a "Quit the show at this point" moment, despite the ****ing Month Python homage!

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The last two episodes were mostly fine. I think the criticism was decidedly overblown.

Spoiler

 

There are some issues, particularly with the Danes magically appearing inside Winchester (I assume they either snuck in or killed the gate guards in a surprise attack, but in either case that should have been shown), but they're nothing particularly outrageous given some of the narrative shortcuts the show has used in the past. Also, the last episode is the one time this season they did use a shield wall. I also assume they just bypassed the burghs by landing on the coast and sneaking up on Winchester (perhaps via the fens, which extended south of the defensive line).

I did end up a bit puzzled as to why Sigtryggr went to so much trouble to rescue Brida and then promptly ignored everything she said after the conquest of Winchester. Sigtryggr being presented as a mostly-reasonable Dane who has his honour and pride but also knows how to drive a bargain I think also worked reasonably well. I do think Brida and maybe Haesten are outliving their narrative usefulness though.

The season's MVP was Eliza Butterworth, who's always been great as Aelswith but took it to another level this season, particularly when she fearlessly declares herself ready for death to Brida (and Brida notes she's not quite as fearless as she says).

 

Overall, better than Season 3 (mainly the second half), not quite as strong as Seasons 1 and 2.

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I am wondering if Netflix is leaving the door open for them to just finish the story next season? It wouldn't be massively historically accurate, but the show has kind of moved away from both the real history and the book narrative pretty much completely by now and by doing that they could just avoid the problem of having to age up the characters more significantly. Adding ten years onto everyone and calling it a day

 

with a teenage Aethelstan becoming the first king of England through a combination of Edward's later battles, where he imposes direct rule on Mercia after Aetheflaed's death, and then Aethelstan's victories in Scotland and at Brunanburh

could be a good way of wrapping things up. I'm not sure we necessarily need another three seasons of Uhtred scowling at people.

I think the show's still pretty great, I'm just not sure they have enough juice in the tank to maintain the quality level through several more fairly repetitive story arcs.

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14 hours ago, Werthead said:

I am wondering if Netflix is leaving the door open for them to just finish the story next season? It wouldn't be massively historically accurate, but the show has kind of moved away from both the real history and the book narrative pretty much completely by now and by doing that they could just avoid the problem of having to age up the characters more significantly. Adding ten years onto everyone and calling it a day

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with a teenage Aethelstan becoming the first king of England through a combination of Edward's later battles, where he imposes direct rule on Mercia after Aetheflaed's death, and then Aethelstan's victories in Scotland and at Brunanburh

could be a good way of wrapping things up. I'm not sure we necessarily need another three seasons of Uhtred scowling at people.

I think the show's still pretty great, I'm just not sure they have enough juice in the tank to maintain the quality level through several more fairly repetitive story arcs.

I'd say if they are looking to wrap up then they'd probably go for at least two seasons.

One season culminating with Uhtred reclaiming Bebbanburg and the other with the Battle of Brunanburh. 

Can't see them doing both of those in one season. Is there any reason to think that the show is waning in popularity? Netflix doesn't release viewership metrics and just looking at ratings on RT and IMDB, it would appears that the show is gaining in popularity as well as favourable ratings with each passing season. 

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My thought was that Netflix sometimes just cancels shows for what appears to be no reason, so pretty much every show needs to have a plan to wrap things up quickly if necessary.

There's an entertaining podcast for The Last Kingdom with the actors who play Uhtred, Sihtric and Finnan. Not tremendously revelatory, but fun. It's interesting that all three actors do have accents in real life (being German, Lithuanian and Irish) but they deliberately play up their accents because it helps get them get into character. They also sometimes get Alex to bellow their names in character as a way of "switching on" for a scene.

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The way things were left off with Sigtryggr, Stiorra, and Brida, some of the stuff related to them will likely happen (or should happen). I also hope that Finan gets to do more than just make jokes and drink. So hopefully we get a brief Irish plot where he does what he does in the books. Then there is the inevitable conflict between Aethelhem and Uhtred, and then Bebbanburg and finally Aethelstan king. 

If they are forced to wrap everything up in only one season, it will be just as rushed as all other shows that had to go at lightspeed in their final season because of reasons. Two, maybe even three seasons at a minimum to really wrap up the story.

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On 5/8/2020 at 12:13 AM, GrimTuesday said:

It may not be Shakespeare, but it also isn't Vikings, so all I can do is shrug and move on with my life, having scratched my itch for Viking/Saxon era silliness.

Controversial opinion but, while there is no doubt in my mind that The Last Kingdom is much, much stronger than Vikings, I would say that the best season of Vikings (season two) beats the best season of The Last Kingdom (Season one). 

Although my dream would be to rescue Travis Fimmil from Vikings and cast him as Uthred instead. Let's pray that the multiverse is real and this exist somewhere.

21 hours ago, Consigliere said:

I'd say if they are looking to wrap up then they'd probably go for at least two seasons.

 

  Hide contents

 

One season culminating with Uhtred reclaiming Bebbanburg and the other with the Battle of Brunanburh. 

 

Can't see them doing both of those in one season. Is there any reason to think that the show is waning in popularity? Netflix doesn't release viewership metrics and just looking at ratings on RT and IMDB, it would appears that the show is gaining in popularity as well as favourable ratings with each passing season. 

 

Two seasons would also be my guess, but Netflix sometimes does weird stuff.

15 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

The way things were left off with Sigtryggr, Stiorra, and Brida, some of the stuff related to them will likely happen (or should happen). I also hope that Finan gets to do more than just make jokes and drink. So hopefully we get a brief Irish plot where he does what he does in the books. Then there is the inevitable conflict between Aethelhem and Uhtred, and then Bebbanburg and finally Aethelstan king. 

If they are forced to wrap everything up in only one season, it will be just as rushed as all other shows that had to go at lightspeed in their final season because of reasons. Two, maybe even three seasons at a minimum to really wrap up the story.

This is a bookspoiler so just a question

Spoiler

What does he do again in Ireland? My mind is drawing a blank

 

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2 hours ago, Veltigar said:

Controversial opinion but, while there is no doubt in my mind that The Last Kingdom is much, much stronger than Vikings, I would say that the best season of Vikings (season two) beats the best season of The Last Kingdom (Season one). 

Although my dream would be to rescue Travis Fimmil from Vikings and cast him as Uthred instead. Let's pray that the multiverse is real and this exist somewhere.

Two seasons would also be my guess, but Netflix sometimes does weird stuff.

This is a bookspoiler so just a question

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What does he do again in Ireland? My mind is drawing a blank

 

I don't remember much, but there are two events which I don't recall if they're connected.

Spoiler

Uhtred's enemies enlist some Irish. It turns out that the Irish are kin to Finan, and when they're about to face each other, Finan makes them stop.

Sigtryggr and Stiorra leave in Ireland for a time, but then they get besieged. Uhtred goes and rescues them.

Finan was also a nobleman in Ireland, betrayed by a brother or cousin, which is how he ended up a slave like Uhtred. 

 

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Probably two seasons would be better then, although it's worth noting that because of the decision to end the books with 13 volumes rather than 14 (the original plan), it leaves them with that odd problem of not having enough material for 7 seasons but too much for 6 if they strictly adapt the books. Since they're not strictly adapting the books any more, I suspect they'll be more likely to telescope it down to 6 seasons.

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2 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

I don't remember much, but there are two events which I don't recall if they're connected.

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Uhtred's enemies enlist some Irish. It turns out that the Irish are kin to Finan, and when they're about to face each other, Finan makes them stop.

Sigtryggr and Stiorra leave in Ireland for a time, but then they get besieged. Uhtred goes and rescues them.

Finan was also a nobleman in Ireland, betrayed by a brother or cousin, which is how he ended up a slave like Uhtred. 

 

I don't remember Finan pulling a Braveheart in the books XD the SS plot does ring a bell though :) 

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5 hours ago, Veltigar said:

This is a bookspoiler so just a question

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What does he do again in Ireland? My mind is drawing a blank

 

Spoiler

 

Finan's brother leads a force of Irishmen that have allied themselves with Ragnall, Sigtrygg's brother, in his invasion of England. Before the final battle Finan kills his brother in a duel and the Irish peaces out of the battle. If I recall correctly.

Uhtred and the gang also briefly go to Ireland to help Sigtrygg and Stiorra who are being besieged. But that obviously wont be happening in the show with Sigtrygg getting Eforwic.

 

 

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I really love this show but agree with everyone who said this season was the weakest. Especially with Cnuts entire apparition moments of just always running into our heroes.. And Uhtred having no plans whatsoever in the last 2 eps of what to do. 

Still much much better than the pile of banta shit that was Vikings though. 

Hope we still get more seasons and a final end to the story. I really really want Uhtred to finally get Bebbenberg back! 

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As a matter of real life history, I've always found it remarkable that both Alfred and Athelstan allowed their rival claimants to live.  It's a kind of running joke in the books that Uhtred frequently urges Alfred to dispose of Athelwold.

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