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Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!


The Fattest Leech

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23 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Faux-tension leads to a whole lotta of stupidity.

Yup. And that’s a huge problem the show has. Everything is faux, the whole damn story is faux. They keep trying to come up w/ ever more shocking! plot twists, but they keep forgetting the plot part and only really bother w/ the twists. 

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Honestly, the idea a few posts up isn't bad.  Why not have Jon and The Vale, with Sansa's help, do the plotting for the battle?  Like it was said above, something could have triggered the battle before the Vale shows up and it's about holding out until they arrive.  But no, SHOCK AND AWE AND SURPRISE!! and that results in Stupidity!! 

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7 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Why not have Jon and The Vale, with Sansa's help, do the plotting for the battle?   

After that whole Vale Army boondoggle, I remember reading a couple of articles basically celebrating what a player Sandra was for keeping information about the Vale Army a secret.

And I thought to myself, are the people writing this stuff, even vaguely aware how realistically doing something like that would be insanely stupid and dangerous?

There were so many other ways they could have done that plot to make Sansa look good. Instead, they chose to make her do something, that made her look petty and stupid. It was terrible writing.

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4 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

I agree.  There are some amazing stand alone scenes.  But their plotting is short term, at best.  What works for an episode or a few, or a season at best.  The North Remembers?  Not this season. 

Ellaria's final scene is outstanding. So very chilling, and yet, so effective.  Ellaria's hate, and fear, and panic.  Cersei gloating over her torment, but then breaking down as she speaks of Myrcella's death.  If they can do that, why come up with such an awful Dornish plot?  Why not instead, have an Ellaria who was mad for revenge persuading Doran to launch a doomed war, and take it from there?

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4 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Honestly, the idea a few posts up isn't bad.  Why not have Jon and The Vale, with Sansa's help, do the plotting for the battle?  Like it was said above, something could have triggered the battle before the Vale shows up and it's about holding out until they arrive.  But no, SHOCK AND AWE AND SURPRISE!! and that results in Stupidity!! 

ramsay just had to know that a vale army was coming. That should make him want to attack before the 2 armies unite…. It wouldn t even be that much diferent from what they did!

And they could show how awesome ramsay is because he had someone inform him that a huge army was in the north and a scene full of tension with sansa telling jon about LF and that he could bring the army of the vale.

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1 minute ago, OldGimletEye said:

After that whole Vale Army boondoggle, I remember reading a couple of articles basically celebrating what a player Sandra was for keeping information about the Vale Army a secret.

And I thought to myself, are the people writing this stuff, even vaguely aware how realistically doing something like that would be insanely stupid and dangerous?

There were so many other ways they could have done that plot to make Sansa look good. Instead, they chose to make her do something, that made her look petty and stupid. It was terrible writing.

You said at the time, how stupid it would be for someone to keep such vital information from their commander,  

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1 minute ago, SeanF said:

Ellaria's final scene is outstanding. So very chilling, and yet, so effective.  Ellaria's hate, and fear, and panic.  Cersei gloating over her torment, but then breaking down as she speaks of Myrcella's death.  If they can do that, why come up with such an awful Dornish plot?  Why not instead, have an Ellaria who was mad for revenge persuading Doran to launch a doomed war, and take it from there?

After watching 8 seasons of GOT, the North might change its motto to "We'd Like To Forget".

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2 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Ellaria's final scene is outstanding. So very chilling, and yet, so effective.  Ellaria's hate, and fear, and panic.  Cersei gloating over her torment, but then breaking down as she speaks of Myrcella's death.  If they can do that, why come up with such an awful Dornish plot?  Why not instead, have an Ellaria who was mad for revenge persuading Doran to launch a doomed war, and take it from there?

Yup, Ellaria's last scenes were almost enough to make me forget I wanted her dead by then, LOL  It was all short term, short term, short term, one last good scene. 

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2 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

After that whole Vale Army boondoggle, I remember reading a couple of articles basically celebrating what a player Sandra was for keeping information about the Vale Army a secret.

And I thought to myself, are the people writing this stuff, even vaguely aware how realistically doing something like that would be insanely stupid and dangerous?

There were so many other ways they could have done that plot to make Sansa look good. Instead, they chose to make her do something, that made her look petty and stupid. It was terrible writing.

It isn t just stupid. She looks to be borderline ploting agains her brother…

In a season with a lot of siblings (lannisters (Jaime and cersei), greyjoys, sandsnakes, tyrels) sansa was the worst one! Making the starks the only ones that weren t United...

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18 minutes ago, SeanF said:

You said at the time, how stupid it would be for someone to keep such vital information from their commander,  

I know how easy it is to get lost in the middle of the night, out in the sticks or in the middle of nowhere.  Just imagine Sansa tromping around the North at zero dark thirty looking for the Vale Army. 

And then, I think, anyone that even shows a slight interest in military history knows that attempting to unite two allied forces at the same point at the required time is not easy to pull off, is prone to mistakes and errors, and is dangerous as both forces are potentially vulnerable before uniting. Such a maneuver takes a lot of coordination and planning.

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1 minute ago, divica said:

meh. He was in the series since season 1. He deserved a solo death lol

I think it's more of a book check off for them.  Hell, Loras was there since season 1, too.  It's more a weird little nitpick on my part. 

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10 minutes ago, divica said:

It isn t just stupid. She looks to be borderline ploting agains her brother…

In a season with a lot of siblings (lannisters (Jaime and cersei), greyjoys, sandsnakes, tyrels) sansa was the worst one! Making the starks the only ones that weren t United...

I just think it was a case of D&D trying to do one thing, but then completely doing the opposite.

If they want to make Sansa look like the more shrewd one between her and Jon, that is fine with me. But, don't do it in a way, that makes her look like an idiot. And that is what they did, unfortunately, because of their bad writing. They ruin characters that I actually like a lot in the books. 

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4 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

I know how easy it is to get lost in the middle of the night, out in the sticks or in the middle of nowhere.  Just imagine Sansa tromping around the North at zero dark thirty looking for the Vale Army. 

And then, I think, anyone that even shows a slight interest in military history knows that attempting to unite two allied forces at the same point at the required time is not easy to pull off, is prone to mistakes and errors, and is dangerous as both forces are potentially vulnerable before uniting. Such a maneuver takes a lot of coordination and planning.

How do you know for sure that Sansa even knew they were coming? At the time we didn't know she wrote to LF, we knew that after. We also never see her get a reply. So I can only work with a) what's on screen an b) what these plot driven characters might do. The holes in the story are big enough that you can make up your own version. So even if Sansa knew they were coming, LF would have waited until the last possible moment so that both armies are decimated and then swoop in.

The real answer however is that there are no character reasons for anyone involved in this plot. D&D wanted their LOTR scene and they wanted it to be a surprise even though anyone with a working brain knew this was coming. Apparently they think their audience is as stupid as them. And they are not wrong considering how high the rating for this episode is and how people argue about the actions and motivations of the characters despite the characters not actually being characters but plot puppies. There are no character reasons. There is just a lot of nonsensical plot hence the characters are nonsensical.

4 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

If they want to make Sansa look like the more shrewd one between her and Jon, that is fine with me. But, don't do it in a way, that makes her look like an idiot. And that is what they did, unfortunately, because of their bad writing. They ruin characters that I actually like a lot in the books.

I don't see Sansa as an idiot. Sansa is what she is written to be. If she is an idiot for no reason other than plot, then the writer is the idiot not the character. It's hilarious when watching S6 how many different incarnations of the Sansa character there are. Will the real one please stand up? Because I have no idea which one that is. You can either have a character driven show, in which case discussing and analyzing characters is actually doable because the characters are the point. Or you can have a plot driven show, in which case characters don't need analyzing because they are who the plot requires them to be. So all you can do is discuss the plot, any discussion regarding characters is useless and pointless and also not the point of the show. And the guys making this show have said it's a plot driven show. So all this character discussion is always hilarious to me. When I talk about the characters for example, I'm talking about the plot since there are no characters.

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55 minutes ago, Mystical said:

LF would have waited until the last possible moment so that both armies are decimated and then swoop in.

Except that would rely upon Ramsay not noticing him, and just hanging around would be the best possible way to be discovered. 

There's really no way to reconcile all the plotholes without making every major character a moron. 

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5 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Yup. And that’s a huge problem the show has. Everything is faux, the whole damn story is faux. They keep trying to come up w/ ever more shocking! plot twists, but they keep forgetting the plot part and only really bother w/ the twists. 

Not the whole story, no. But whole big chunks of it. 

I don't look at it like a chain, where every part has to work or its nothing. More like computer code, where it can still work with bugs. Game of Thrones is 90% bugs. 

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