Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[Erick Storm]

10 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

? All of them?  All the scouts got caught?  And then Ramsay didn't wonder why he hadn't heard from these scouts?  

I don't get the second point, the knights are a huge army moving through the country on horse.  They couldn't possibly arrive unseen.  And, not one person in the Vale or the North thought to get some gold by telling the Boltons of this huge army moving toward WF?

Surely, since Ramsay knows that LF betrayed the Lannisters, it might occur to him that LF would betray the Boltons?

Why bother making excuses for a poorly constructed segment that is full of plot holes?

How can they see them when they're hiding behind walls? Littlefingers has more gold. Scouts? Maybe they were caught. Maybe they didn't have any. 

Why is this such a problem but Stannis not seeing Tywin at the Blackwater is "great writing"?

[Erick Storm]

8 minutes ago, divica said:

that a Wall of dead bodies somehow appeared?

There's a cross-fade showing that time has passed.

[divica]

3 minutes ago, Erick Storm said:

How can they see them when they're hiding behind walls? Littlefingers has more gold. Scouts? Maybe they were caught. Maybe they didn't have any. 

Why is this such a problem but Stannis not seeing Tywin at the Blackwater is "great writing"?

Because LF has to pass by thousands of miles under Bolton and frey control. You saying that ramsay didn t have to know about the army of the vale is the same as you saying that stannis army or the wildling army could have arrived at winterfell winthout ramsay knowing. It is ridiculous.

On the other hand, stannis is invading a territory and is coming from the sea. He doesn t know what is happening away from the place he sailed into KL.Therefore there is a limit of what he can know. At most he had scouts that informed him if an army was a few hours away.

[divica]

7 minutes ago, Erick Storm said:

There's a cross-fade showing that time has passed.

yeah, and somehoe a mountain of corpses was formed… That is completly normal in a battle. 

In all tv shows and books with medieval battles the people are always worried about corpses forming a Wall in the middle of the battlefield...

[OldGimletEye]

13 minutes ago, Erick Storm said:

Littlefingers has more gold. Scouts? Maybe they were caught. Maybe they didn't have any. 

Sounds a lot like:

I ran out of gas
I had a flat tire
I didn't have enough money for cab fare.
My tux didn't come back from the cleaners.
An old friend came from out of town.
Someone stole my car.
There was an earthquake.
A terrible flood.
Locust!

It wasn't D&D's fault!
 

[Mystical]

12 minutes ago, Erick Storm said:

How can they see them when they're hiding behind walls? Littlefingers has more gold. Scouts? Maybe they were caught. Maybe they didn't have any.

The Boltons took Moat Cailin in a previous Season, that's what Ramsey got legitimized for. LF tells us in 6x05 that him and the Vale army are camped at Moat Cailin. So clearly the Vale took Moat Cailin from the Boltons and apparently no one escaped that fight to tell anyone the news. Boltons had no men between Moat Cailin and WF in case the Lannisters, who the Bolton's had betrayed, would be stupid enough to send an army north?

And you saying they didn't have any scouts doesn't exactly help your argument.

[Cas Stark]

26 minutes ago, Erick Storm said:

How can they see them when they're hiding behind walls? Littlefingers has more gold. Scouts? Maybe they were caught. Maybe they didn't have any. 

Why is this such a problem but Stannis not seeing Tywin at the Blackwater is "great writing"?

Tywin and Tyrell army arrived when the battle was under way and most of his fleet was already blown up, of which, his entire army is on the flotilla, not really the same has having a huge army travel over hundreds of miles of land through a variety of Westerosi kingdoms, over many weeks,  and no one sends word or gets word at WF.  It was a stupidly constructed segment, it is what it is.  The show's later seasons are full of stupid, implausible segments just like this.

[Cas Stark]

And speaking of stupid and implausible segments, I watched last night the Arya getting stabbed repeatedly in the gut, falling in a canal, running around, falling down stairs, and being revived with couple of stitches, a good night's sleep and some bad soup.  

Silly and unrealistic, and easily avoided if they simply had Arya not stabbed multiple times or had her stabbed once or twice in the chest and not the stomach.  

Although the woman who played the actress did a fantastic job, another gem of a performance by a tertiary character.

[divica]

1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

And speaking of stupid and implausible segments, I watched last night the Arya getting stabbed repeatedly in the gut, falling in a canal, running around, falling down stairs, and being revived with couple of stitches, a good night's sleep and some bad soup.  

Silly and unrealistic, and easily avoided if they simply had Arya not stabbed multiple times or had her stabbed once or twice in the chest and not the stomach.  

Although the woman who played the actress did a fantastic job, another gem of a performance by a tertiary character.

Season 6 was full of that crap.

I agree that season 5 had problems in the sansa storyline and the personalities of the dornish were awful. However I can also understand that the show needed to make big changes in the dornish and vale plot because it would introduce a huge amount of new characters that no one really cares about. If they worked? Not really… 

However season 6 is full of completly unbelivable plots and was really badly thought. It is so bad that it makes the next season bad! Cersei being queen makes no sense, making jon king and start the next season with him nearly obligated to bend the knee makes no sense and giving danny all those suporters makes no sense if they want a war for westeros...

For me season 6 was when the show was completly lost...

[Vaith]

56 minutes ago, Erick Storm said:

How can they see them when they're hiding behind walls? Littlefingers has more gold. Scouts? Maybe they were caught. Maybe they didn't have any. 

Why is this such a problem but Stannis not seeing Tywin at the Blackwater is "great writing"?

But how did the Vale army get to Moat Cailin without alerting anyone in the Riverlands who could tell the Freys/Lannisters that the Arryns were rebelling against the crown?

[Cas Stark]

8 minutes ago, divica said:

Season 6 was full of that crap.

I agree that season 5 had problems in the sansa storyline and the personalities of the dornish were awful. However I can also understand that the show needed to make big changes in the dornish and vale plot because it would introduce a huge amount of new characters that no one really cares about. If they worked? Not really… 

However season 6 is full of completly unbelivable plots and was really badly thought. It is so bad that it makes the next season bad! Cersei being queen makes no sense, making jon king and start the next season with him nearly obligated to bend the knee makes no sense and giving danny all those suporters makes no sense if they want a war for westeros...

For me season 6 was when the show was completly lost...

I really hated season 5, and felt that was a serious turning point, the Sansa and Stannis storylines were just incredibly poorly done.

But, I haven't rewatched any of 6 until now, and so I had forgotten some of the more dumb things that happened and how everything became really jumbled.  I did think the finale was well done, despite some flaws, like why would they go out of their way to lure Lancel to the underground area, where he came within 20 seconds of blowing out the damn candle?  No reason except that it was a cool scene, it makes no sense to alert Lancel that you intend to blow the place up in advance.  The show is full of those cool scenes that make no sense, which no one would do in the real world.

[Vaith]

1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

I did think the finale was well done, despite some flaws, like why would they go out of their way to lure Lancel to the underground area, where he came within 20 seconds of blowing out the damn candle?  No reason except that it was a cool scene, it makes no sense to alert Lancel that you intend to blow the place up in advance.  The show is full of those cool scenes that make no sense, which no one would do in the real world.

Also:

• Margaery getting spider sense. She knew that Cersei wasn't intending to come to the trial, but how is that the same as knowing that they would die if they stayed in the sept? Couldn't she just assume that Cersei had, e.g. fled to Casterly Rock rather than attempting to mass murder everyone?
• Why does Qyburn say "in with the new" in his speech? Qyburn and Cersei weren't even planning to dethrone Tommen. His suicide was an unfortunate consequence of the explosion of the sept for him.
• What happened to the Tyrell army that was stationed in King's Landing and was ready to storm the Great Sept at any moment some episodes beforehand? Why didn't they attack the Red Keep after their lords die? Did they just leave the city, despite Loras still being imprisoned? 
• Who are the people in the throne room at the end? I assume most of the court would be present at the trial of the queen and the heir to Highgarden.
• Who is supporting Cersei, and why are people not rioting in the streets after the holiest site of their Faith was destroyed, as well as the popular Tyrells killed, and the massively unpopular Cersei installed on the throne (In Season 7, we learn that the commons know that Cersei was responsible for the destruction, on top of that.)

[Mystical]

8 minutes ago, divica said:

I agree that season 5 had problems in the sansa storyline and the personalities of the dornish were awful. However I can also understand that the show needed to make big changes in the dornish and vale plot because it would introduce a huge amount of new characters that no one really cares about. If they worked? Not really… 

If you can't adapt a work, then don't do it. Period. D&D have shown that they are incapable of doing so. But if you need to cut corners because you aren't willing to do the actual story, then do it in a way that makes sense. They should have cut Dorne entirely. Beyond Marcella being send there and Oberyn coming to KL, there was no need to create Dorne and waste time there or introduce the Sandsnakes and all the other characters. It was just a giant waste of time.

If they didn't want to adapt Sansa's Vale arc, whether because of too many new characters, sets needing to be build or they think it's boring, then give the character the year off like they did Bran. It has the beautiful side affect that they could change Sansa into a player off screen and we get reintroduced to the new version in S6. Then you avoid the entire nonsense of the 'marriage strike' and the stupidity of S6. Have Sansa come in with an army at the end for the battle at WF and you don't have the plot holes or 'traitor Sansa' who doesn't even know why she does what she does because D&D don't know. It also has the side effect that there is no need then that 'Ramsey rapes and marries a Stark' and 'the North remembers'. They didn't want to adapt the Northern storyline at all, not even a little, all they cared about was that Ramsey rapes someone. Which lets face it, is it's own level of fucked up.

[divica]

3 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I really hated season 5, and felt that was a serious turning point, the Sansa and Stannis storylines were just incredibly poorly done.

But, I haven't rewatched any of 6 until now, and so I had forgotten some of the more dumb things that happened and how everything became really jumbled.  I did think the finale was well done, despite some flaws, like why would they go out of their way to lure Lancel to the underground area, where he came within 20 seconds of blowing out the damn candle?  No reason except that it was a cool scene, it makes no sense to alert Lancel that you intend to blow the place up in advance.  The show is full of those cool scenes that make no sense, which no one would do in the real world.

The finalle had good things. It just didn t connect well with the story they wanted for season 7.

With the resources they gave danny there is no reason for having a war over who gets the IT. Danny can just conquer whatever she wants. Making jon king just so that the obejctive of the next season is him bending the knee is stupid. There being no problems after cersei blowing up the most important place for the faith makes no sense. Did all religious people die?

And I am not even including how danny gathered all dothriaki to her. I seriously hated that and can t understand. She thinks she has more right to rule the dothriaki that dudes that were dothriaki their whole lives? Only the kahls were bad dothriaki? There weren t people loyal to the kahls like bloodriders or familly members that would revolt agains danny burning them? All dothriaki would decide to follow a woman and change their entire culture because danny doesn t burn? Seriously? No one thinks she is a fucking witch and tries to kill her? THEY ARE ALWAYS ACUSING WOMEN OF BEING WITCHES AND WANTING TO KILL THEM AS FAST AS POSSIBLE!

Basicaly, I think that in season 5 there were some bad storylines. But in season 6 ALL OF THEM were unbelievable.

ps. I think that what was missing in the stannis storyline was more desperation because stannis burning shireen if he thinks that is the only way to achieve his Destiny is believable. But he has to be completly desperate.

[divica]

11 minutes ago, Mystical said:

If you can't adapt a work, then don't do it. Period. D&D have shown that they are incapable of doing so. But if you need to cut corners because you aren't willing to do the actual story, then do it in a way that makes sense. They should have cut Dorne entirely. Beyond Marcella being send there and Oberyn coming to KL, there was no need to create Dorne and waste time there or introduce the Sandsnakes and all the other characters. It was just a giant waste of time.

If they didn't want to adapt Sansa's Vale arc, whether because of too many new characters, sets needing to be build or they think it's boring, then give the character the year off like they did Bran. It has the beautiful side affect that they could change Sansa into a player off screen and we get reintroduced to the new version in S6. Then you avoid the entire nonsense of the 'marriage strike' and the stupidity of S6. Have Sansa come in with an army at the end for the battle at WF and you don't have the plot holes or 'traitor Sansa' who doesn't even know why she does what she does because D&D don't know. It also has the side effect that there is no need then that 'Ramsey rapes and marries a Stark' and 'the North remembers'. They didn't want to adapt the Northern storyline at all, not even a little, all they cared about was that Ramsey rapes someone. Which lets face it, is it's own level of fucked up.

I think that is the BIG problem of got.

When D&D had to be original and adapt the books into their vision of the show they failed miserably. For example, they failed 3 times in dorne (season 5, season 6 and then in season 7 they just disapear after elaria dies… Nobody wants revenge?)

And I think we all should be very worried about season 8 because it seams that D&D will even direct several eps...

[Vaith]

1 minute ago, divica said:

When D&D had to be original and adapt the books into their vision of the show they failed miserably. For example, they failed 3 times in dorne (season 5, season 6 and then in season 7 they just disapear after elaria dies… Nobody wants revenge?)

Not just nobody wants revenge, all the lords are fine with a paramour usurping Dorne and killing off the Martells.

No vassals exist any more apart from in the North, there are just the families. And when they die off, their region becomes a political void. That's why the Stormlands haven't done anything since Renly died, the Reach since the Tyrells died, Dorne since the Martells + Sand Snakes died, and the Riverlands since they Freys got killed off.

Everything needs to be simplified for Queen Evil (Cersei) vs Queen Good (Dany)

[Mystical]

25 minutes ago, Vaith said:

Not just nobody wants revenge, all the lords are fine with a paramour usurping Dorne and killing off the Martells.

My fave part about that whole story: Ellaria wants to exact revenge for a killed Martell...by killing more Martells. WHAT?

27 minutes ago, Vaith said:

No vassals exist any more apart from in the North, there are just the families. And when they die off, their region becomes a political void. That's why the Stormlands haven't done anything since Renly died, the Reach since the Tyrells died, Dorne since the Martells + Sand Snakes died, and the Riverlands since they Freys got killed off.

It's just best to assume that every Kingdom only has a few houses and no other population to speak of. So when those houses are wiped out, those Kingdoms are entirely empty.

28 minutes ago, Vaith said:

Everything needs to be simplified for Queen Evil (Cersei) vs Queen Good (Dany)

I wouldn't label them like that, although I'm sure that's what D&D want us to think. No wait, they love Cersei so she didn't actually do anything evil until the end of S6. Dany, meanwhile, had destabilized an entire region, thrown it into chaos, caused the deaths of hundreds, fed people to her dragons, her dragons fed on people, she crucified people randomly and caused several cities to be a mess (starvation, war, abuse, power vacuums).

I'm not sure those labels for each Queen are correct, at least not with how D&D wrote the story.

[Vaith]

5 minutes ago, Mystical said:

My fave part about that whole story: Ellaria wants to exact revenge for a killed Martell...by killing more Martells. WHAT?

If Nym was going to use her teleportation powers on the boat, she could have at least stuck around to kill Cersei and Jaime, you know, from the family that actually was responsible for Elia and Oberyn dying. Not Trystane who is responsible for this, for .... some reason.

6 minutes ago, Mystical said:

I wouldn't label them like that, although I'm sure that's what D&D want us to think. No wait, they love Cersei so she didn't actually do anything evil until the end of S6. Dany, meanwhile, had destabilized an entire region, thrown it into chaos, caused the deaths of hundreds, fed people to her dragons, her dragons fed on people, she crucified people randomly and caused several cities to be a mess (starvation, war, abuse, power vacuums).

I'm not sure those labels for each Queen are correct, at least not with how D&D wrote the story.

They're certainly being portrayed that way, in my experience. Dany is so good that she has the Brotherhood join her despite her burning lords who don't bend the knee to her, and Cersei is just so Disney Villain evil that she designed black Queensguard armour. 

[Lady Anna]

I love reading you guys posts lol. I didn't watch seasons 5 and 7 (and i haven't rewatched the others) and reading about what happened, and how low the show has come, really makes me laugh. I don't take it very seriously tbh....although part of me enjoys it and is fine with it (probably its relation to asoiaf, and the fact it's so popular).

Amyway I will watch season 8 though. I'm looking foward to it, and the rant and raving too! 

[Erick Storm]

3 hours ago, divica said:

Because LF has to pass by thousands of miles under Bolton and frey control. You saying that ramsay didn t have to know about the army of the vale is the same as you saying that stannis army or the wildling army could have arrived at winterfell winthout ramsay knowing. It is ridiculous.

On the other hand, stannis is invading a territory and is coming from the sea. He doesn t know what is happening away from the place he sailed into KL.Therefore there is a limit of what he can know. At most he had scouts that informed him if an army was a few hours away.

The Wildings arrived on foot and were camped outside the walls. LF had an alliance with the Boltons. Why would Ramsay worry about him?

So Stannis is just as stupid then. Or maybe it's just poorly done. 

Jaime walked into Riverrun with 8000 men unchallenged. That shows the Frey's incompetence.