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Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!


The Fattest Leech

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The show's problem is execution and plot continuity.

I totally understand why they wanted to cut the Vale and put Sansa in WF.  I might even have been able to understand how she would somehow have ended up married to Ramsay...maybe she came because she heard of fake Arya and then she was forced to marry him herself.  Or, even if she and LF had discussed how her marriage was going to get her revenge...or if she had tried to do something? anything? that was strategic once she got there, try to seduce Ramsay, to make an ally of Roose's wife.  Do fucking something?  But they weren't willing to put in the time or effort to create a plot that made sense.

I never liked Dorne in the books, but certainly they could have again come up with something better than what they did, including the forgotten necklace of Sansa's, LOL, oh how I remember people telling me that there would be an explanation there, the unusually bad acting and costumes...just bad, except for Siddig and Varma.  

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1 hour ago, Vaith said:

They're certainly being portrayed that way, in my experience. Dany is so good that she has the Brotherhood join her despite her burning lords who don't bend the knee to her, and Cersei is just so Disney Villain evil that she designed black Queensguard armour. 

Curiously cersei in the earlier seasons seemed to have nearly double personality. We even had emotional scenes between her and tyrion talking about protecting her children and how bad joffrey was and tyrion being simphatetic to her. This pure evil person only happened in season 5... 

1 hour ago, Mystical said:

My fave part about that whole story: Ellaria wants to exact revenge for a killed Martell...by killing more Martells. WHAT?

I wouldn't label them like that, although I'm sure that's what D&D want us to think. No wait, they love Cersei so she didn't actually do anything evil until the end of S6. Dany, meanwhile, had destabilized an entire region, thrown it into chaos, caused the deaths of hundreds, fed people to her dragons, her dragons fed on people, she crucified people randomly and caused several cities to be a mess (starvation, war, abuse, power vacuums).

I'm not sure those labels for each Queen are correct, at least not with how D&D wrote the story.

Elaria and the SS killing the martels and nobody in dorne caring was so idiotic… But to make matters worse, then they join danny and nobody mentions what they did anymore… They don t desserve punishment? Is danny suposed to persuade the lords of westeros to her side by suporting a bunch of bastards that killed the rightful rulers of a region because they didn t want war?

The real question. What did danny learn from season 5 where she lost mereen? That she can burn all the kahls and say she is better at leading. Then all dothriaki obviously decide to follow her… It is funny that danny did to the dothriaki what cersei did to the faith and nearly nobdy taks about it...

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16 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

The show's problem is execution and plot continuity.

I totally understand why they wanted to cut the Vale and put Sansa in WF.  I might even have been able to understand how she would somehow have ended up married to Ramsay...maybe she came because she heard of fake Arya and then she was forced to marry him herself.  Or, even if she and LF had discussed how her marriage was going to get her revenge...or if she had tried to do something? anything? that was strategic once she got there, try to seduce Ramsay, to make an ally of Roose's wife.  Do fucking something?  But they weren't willing to put in the time or effort to create a plot that made sense.

I never liked Dorne in the books, but certainly they could have again come up with something better than what they did, including the forgotten necklace of Sansa's, LOL, oh how I remember people telling me that there would be an explanation there, the unusually bad acting and costumes...just bad, except for Siddig and Varma.  

I agree completly. Normally people that defend the show like to say that the critics are because of book purists but it isn t true. Most people should understand that both the vale and dorne would need to be heavilly modified from the books or almost ignored.

The problem is that D&D are trully bad at being original. I would even like to know how much grrm was involved from season 5 onwards. If the drop of quality wasn t because he noticed that he didn t have time to be part of the series and write his books...

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Ah, I see the forum is setup and switch up for season 8 and the show tonight.  I'm in the middle of reading an old Daily Beast article that they reposted today, while I skip in and out of today's season 7 reruns.  The article is basically about how messy GOT has become...........and it's a interesting take on it.  Considering LF and that stupid plot was in my face while reading the article, I found myself going:  YUP, LOL

https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-game-of-thrones-got-so-damn-messy?via=twitter_page

 

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what  kind of power is cersei suposed to have in season 8?

besides the crownlands does she control any other kingdom? (danny conquered casterly rock)

does she have food? D&D had so much enfasis in the food that danny burned...

does she have gold? I thought it was all used to pay the debt

In a normal world she would be a lunatic siting on the IT that nobody cares about...

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5 minutes ago, divica said:

what  kind of power is cersei suposed to have in season 8?

besides the crownlands does she control any other kingdom? (danny conquered casterly rock)

does she have food? D&D had so much enfasis in the food that danny burned...

does she have gold? I thought it was all used to pay the debt

In a normal world she would be a lunatic siting on the IT that nobody cares about...

Ok, I'll help you, and D&D out, with what I remember........hopefully, I remember this correctly.

Cersei used all the gold to pay off the Iron Bank.  The IB complained at the total payment, I believe.  IIRC, the purchase of the Golden Co is being at least partially, if not totally, financed by the IB, because staying in business with a new loan is considered a strength?  According to......D&D anyway? 

I can't remember if an Unsullied force was left at Casterly Rock once they came to the big meeting at the Dragon Pit.  Dany brought all her forces to that meeting, not sure if a small force was left at CR or not.  If I can manage to catch the answer in my in and out rewatch today, I'll let you know. 

But, yes, in a normal world and story.........the citizens of the city itself might have torn Cersei to pieces.  The scripts are what have given and extended her power, not much else. 

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3 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Ok, I'll help you, and D&D out, with what I remember........hopefully, I remember this correctly.

Cersei used all the gold to pay off the Iron Bank.  The IB complained at the total payment, I believe.  IIRC, the purchase of the Golden Co is being at least partially, if not totally, financed by the IB, because staying in business with a new loan is considered a strength?  According to......D&D anyway? 

I can't remember if an Unsullied force was left at Casterly Rock once they came to the big meeting at the Dragon Pit.  Dany brought all her forces to that meeting, not sure if a small force was left at CR or not.  If I can manage to catch the answer in my in and out rewatch today, I'll let you know. 

But, yes, in a normal world and story.........the citizens of the city itself might have torn Cersei to pieces.  The scripts are what have given and extended her power, not much else. 

Cersei might maintain a precarious hold on power in and around Kings Landing by practising a reign of terror, but it would be nice to have some idea why the inhabitants did not respond to the massacre at the Great Sept, and the deaths of hundreds of Smallfolk in the surrounds.

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They already were rioting when Joff was King....so, surely, after Cersei blowing up the main religious shrine in the country, killing the super popular Tyrell Queen, the super popular HS, a ton of nobles and religious personnel....there should be riots.  Also, Dany destroyed the food train, so they might be rioting over how things have been mismanaged, food shortages should be starting with no food coming from Highgarden.  

That the show portrays her as not only powerful outside of the Red Keep, but so powerful that Dany, with at the time, a Greyjoy naval armada, dragons, an army of Dothraki, an army of unsullied, an army of Dornish, an army of Vale and Northerners and wildlings..... would show up and kiss her ass is revoltingly stupid.  Truly. Madly. Deeply. Stupid.  

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4 hours ago, Vaith said:

Not just nobody wants revenge, all the lords are fine with a paramour usurping Dorne and killing off the Martells.

No vassals exist any more apart from in the North, there are just the families. And when they die off, their region becomes a political void. That's why the Stormlands haven't done anything since Renly died, the Reach since the Tyrells died, Dorne since the Martells + Sand Snakes died, and the Riverlands since they Freys got killed off.

Everything needs to be simplified for Queen Evil (Cersei) vs Queen Good (Dany)

Cersei is certainly Queen Evil, but is Daenerys (in the Show) Queen Good?

IMHO, since about Season 5, Daenerys has been portrayed as a sociopath, but I don't know whether that is deliberate or  not on the part of the producers.

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3 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Cersei is certainly Queen Evil, but is Daenerys (in the Show) Queen Good?

IMHO, since about Season 5, Daenerys has been portrayed as a sociopath, but I don't know whether that is deliberate or  not on the part of the producers.

It's definitely been portrayed as overwhelmingly good, I think. Daenerys gets no flak at all for burning all the khals with a brazier, it's just a necessary act so she can add more troops to Team Awesome.

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25 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Ok, I'll help you, and D&D out, with what I remember........hopefully, I remember this correctly.

Cersei used all the gold to pay off the Iron Bank.  The IB complained at the total payment, I believe.  IIRC, the purchase of the Golden Co is being at least partially, if not totally, financed by the IB, because staying in business with a new loan is considered a strength?  According to......D&D anyway? 

I can't remember if an Unsullied force was left at Casterly Rock once they came to the big meeting at the Dragon Pit.  Dany brought all her forces to that meeting, not sure if a small force was left at CR or not.  If I can manage to catch the answer in my in and out rewatch today, I'll let you know. 

But, yes, in a normal world and story.........the citizens of the city itself might have torn Cersei to pieces.  The scripts are what have given and extended her power, not much else. 

Even if she gets the golden company. She doesn t have food and the lannister soldiers should be a few thousand. There is no way she can control westeros… After the field of fire there is no way she still has a big army...

She just spent a lot of gold hiring the GC so she has a food problem and we have seen how bad things get in KL when there is no food. 

When talks about jon and danny defeating the dead and cersei staying in KL she should lose any power she still had. I just don t get how we are suposed to believe that any other region of westeros would support cersei...

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1 minute ago, Vaith said:

It's definitely been portrayed as overwhelmingly good, I think. Daenerys gets no flak at all for burning all the khals with a brazier, it's just a necessary act so she can add more troops to Team Awesome.

I will never understand how D&D thought that was a good idea… And even in mereen danny had several bad deicision that turned the people against her. I am even amazed that danny didn t imprison or burned jon when he refused to kneel...

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6 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Cersei is certainly Queen Evil, but is Daenerys (in the Show) Queen Good?

IMHO, since about Season 5, Daenerys has been portrayed as a sociopath, but I don't know whether that is deliberate or  not on the part of the producers.

The audience sees her as a badass hero, who, you know, has to break a few eggs once in a while to make her freedom omlette. Me, I don't agree, I think she's a megalomanica with a messiah complex in both book and show medium, but she is 'received' as a hero, not even really an anti hero, an empowered woman who is as ruthless as she needs to be to enact her  agenda of wheel breaking and slave freeing.

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2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

The audience sees her as a badass hero, who, you know, has to break a few eggs once in a while to make her freedom omlette. Me, I don't agree, I think she's a megalomanica with a messiah complex in both book and show medium, but she is 'received' as a hero, not even really an anti hero, an empowered woman who is as ruthless as she needs to be to enact her  agenda of wheel breaking and slave freeing.

break the weel- most stupid speach ever. what the hell does it mean?

And I don t remember if you read the books a long time ago, but book danny isn t anything like show danny. She is a young girl (and I stress young girl) that couldn t even kill children hostages when the masters kept killing her men. She might be entitled and bit unfair in the judgements she makes, but is has nothing to do with show danny...

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1 minute ago, divica said:

break the weel- most stupid speach ever. what the hell does it mean?

And I don t remember if you read the books a long time ago, but book danny isn t anything like show danny. She is a young girl (and I stress young girl) that couldn t even kill children hostages when the masters kept killing her men. She might be entitled and bit unfair in the judgements she makes, but is has nothing to do with show danny...

Dany in the books has a cruel streak, but she is mostly kind and compassionate.

Dany in the Show is cold, proud, and completely ruthless.   And, has to be talked out of cold-blooded massacre.

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Just now, SeanF said:

Dany in the books has a cruel streak, but she is mostly kind and compassionate.

Dany in the Show is cold, proud, and completely ruthless.   And, has to be talked out of cold-blooded massacre.

Exactly. And the messiah aura that the show has doesn t really exist in the books. Or if you prefer is much more subtle.

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9 minutes ago, divica said:

break the weel- most stupid speach ever. what the hell does it mean?

And I don t remember if you read the books a long time ago, but book danny isn t anything like show danny. She is a young girl (and I stress young girl) that couldn t even kill children hostages when the masters kept killing her men. She might be entitled and bit unfair in the judgements she makes, but is has nothing to do with show danny...

I disagree, I dislike her immensely in the books, she is an incredibly destructive presence, and the death on a city/regional wide scale that she unleashes isn't IMO balanced out because she has noble motives.  But, that's okay,we can disagree. 

It doesn't change the fact that she had a massive, overwhelming military force when she landed in Westeros and should have flown up to KL and told them to send out the heretical, kinslaying, brother fucking, king and queen killing POS Cersei Lannister, which would have happened, realistically in about 12 hours.  

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12 minutes ago, divica said:

Exactly. And the messiah aura that the show has doesn t really exist in the books. Or if you prefer is much more subtle.

It's coming. The Volantenes believe she's AA. I just don't think it'll be an entirely uncritical depiction of the messiah concept as it is in GoT

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