Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[SuperMario]

51 minutes ago, divica said:

They killed the princess and the martells but cersei killed the queen and the high sparrow and a bunch of other important people and they know it! If they hate the SS then they must hate cersei!

Agree. So they disapprove of one kinslaying, murderous leader(s), but the other one is apparently ok.

But the dudebros are the absolute worst at consistency when it comes to the sake of plot.

[The Fattest Leech]

1 hour ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

I also did not like the scene at all. It was rushed and at the end the first thing Jon said after it was explained was 'Dany is our Queen'.....irrelevant to the current conversation, ruined it for me. he should have been like 'Lyanna was my mother!!!!!, Rhaegar was my father!!!!! ahhhhhhhh!!!!!!' but he gets none of that.

Fully agree here. It was rushed and not focused on the issue that should have been first for Jon. Sloppy sequencing just to rush through the plot to get to the end. If this scene alone doesn't show viewers that showrunners are done with the show and want to move on, I don't know what will?

As an option, and to tie in to dragon riding (which came way too easy and I loathed Dany's remark that "no one knows how to ride a dragon" because f*ck history and books she has read), they could have had Sam tell Jon, Jon reject the idea, go off and learn to ride, have the reality hit him, and then go back to the crypts and think things through/get details from Bran.

[SuperMario]

26 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I know exactly what you mean. I come from a motorcycle riding family, and even I who hasn't ridden near as much as some others in my family have, even I know how unrealistic this is. It's one of the "turn the brain off" moments.

Speaking of wind speed effects, it is good to know that there are secret curling irons everywhere Dany flies to because her hair is always perfectly coiffed, never windblown. And now with Jon, too, I suppose Staying hot is hawt!

Haha. I am pretty sure that awful wig Emilia wears is completely glued down on her head.

And shouldn't hers, and now Jon's, delicate parts be a bit roughed up from riding on a dragon. Dragon scale-induced hemorrhoids have to hurt like a bitch!

But if Tyrion can craft a saddle for a crippled boy in the matter of a day, couldn't he or someone have come up with some type of saddle considering the amount of time she has been riding them?

[Prince of the North]

37 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I know exactly what you mean. I come from a motorcycle riding family, and even I who hasn't ridden near as much as some others in my family have, even I know how unrealistic this is. It's one of the "turn the brain off" moments.

Speaking of wind speed effects, it is good to know that there are secret curling irons everywhere Dany flies to because her hair is always perfectly coiffed, never windblown. And now with Jon, too, I suppose Staying hot is hawt!

 

7 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

Haha. I am pretty sure that awful wig Emilia wears is completely glued down on her head.

And shouldn't hers, and now Jon's, delicate parts be a bit roughed up from riding on a dragon. Dragon scale-induced hemorrhoids have to hurt like a bitch!

But if Tyrion can craft a saddle for a crippled boy in the matter of a day, couldn't he or someone have come up with some type of saddle considering the amount of time she has been riding them?

Even "How To Train Your Dragon" at least made some semblance of an attempt to address this with Hiccup taking to wearing leather from head to toe and sometimes even a leather facemask.  Also, having a saddle that one can can buckle into (you know, like the ASoIaF dragonriders of old did?)

[sweetsunray]

6 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

 

Even "How To Train Your Dragon" at least made some semblance of an attempt to address this with Hiccup taking to wearing leather from head to toe and sometimes even a leather facemask.  Also, having a saddle that one can can buckle into (you know, like the ASoIaF dragonriders of old did?)

falls outside cgi budget like elephants and ghost

[Prince of the North]

1 minute ago, sweetsunray said:

falls outside cgi budget like elephants and ghost

Also...logic? Story continuity?  Internal consistency?  Pffft!  No one cares about any of that, silly!!! 

[Vaith]

3 hours ago, DMC said:

Sure, I'm just saying "magic" is often the answer in a fantasy series, and one that shouldn't be dismissed out of hand even for the books.

"Magic" is applicable in ASOIAF, but as a rather low-fantasy setting, you do have to raise your eyebrows if characters that have never performed magic before use that ability to smelt glass, and it goes unmentioned.

Or I suppose dragonglass could be a fictitious smelt-able material? If it was, fine, that's cool. The problem is that it's not and is the equivalent of the actual volcanic glass that is obsidian, so unless mentioned it's not unreasonable to assume it should have the same properties as in the real world. 

[Le Cygne]

Seeing some negative articles again this season. Spotted this one.

Game of Thrones has come under fire before for its portrayal of women, from a rape scene shot to emphasize the suffering of a male victim to hackneyed plots that turn otherwise strong female characters into damsels in distress. This may have something to do with the male-heavy writers’ room: There are four men on Game of Thrones’ writing staff, though three women have received writing credits on a handful of episodes over the show’s eight seasons; women were shut out of both writing and directing jobs for every episode in season 8. But it’s also in keeping with the traditions of the fantasy genre, in which stories lean on the idea that women have to suffer in order to become powerful. On Game of Thrones, just about every powerful woman left on the show has been sexually abused or humiliated in some way.

In recent years, though, the show has made moves to improve its depictions of women. As we entered season 8, Sansa and Daenerys, two of the characters who have suffered the most on the show, were poised to finally meet. Each had grown from a pawn used by the men around them to powerful leaders and political players in their own right. But while their respective suffering may be over, subtle sexism still found its way into the script. The first episode of the eighth season played into one of the most tiresome and toxic tropes in Hollywood, politics, media and beyond: The catfight...

We’ve seen this sort of mean girl behavior on Thrones before: In season 7, Sansa and Arya expressed suspicion toward one another for rather flimsy reasons... The sisters spent most of the season fighting about things in private that didn’t make a ton of sense: The two have always squabbled over what it means to be a powerful woman, but never over which one of them ought to have more power. Littlefinger wasn’t in the room during these fights, so it’s unclear whether they were genuine or a put-on—Bran actor Isaac Hampstead Wright has suggested the former, which just seems out of character for the two women, who are portrayed as smart and thoughtful...

Sansa and Daenerys do have legitimate issues with each other. But it would be easy enough to build tension between Sansa and Daenerys without the undertones of jealousy. I don’t think this explanation would have been given to describe why Jon might be suspicious of Jaime when he enters Winterfell, nor do I think the show would play up rivalries between men like they were scenes from Mean Girls.

http://time.com/5570507/game-of-thrones-daenerys-sansa/

[Vaith]

3 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Seeing some negative articles again this season. Spotted this one.

Game of Thrones has come under fire before for its portrayal of women, from a rape scene shot to emphasize the suffering of a male victim to hackneyed plotsthat turn otherwise strong female characters into damsels in distress. This may have something to do with the male-heavy writers’ room: There are four men on Game of Thrones’ writing staff, though three women have received writing credits on a handful of episodes over the show’s eight seasons; women were shut out of both writing and directing jobs for every episode in season 8. But it’s also in keeping with the traditions of the fantasy genre, in which stories lean on the idea that women have to suffer in order to become powerful. On Game of Thrones, just about every powerful woman left on the show has been sexually abused or humiliated in some way.

In recent years, though, the show has made moves to improve its depictions of women. As we entered season 8, Sansa and Daenerys, two of the characters who have suffered the most on the show, were poised to finally meet. Each had grown from a pawn used by the men around them to powerful leaders and political players in their own right. But while their respective suffering may be over, subtle sexism still found its way into the script. The first episode of the eighth season played into one of the most tiresome and toxic tropes in Hollywood, politics, media and beyond: The catfight...

We’ve seen this sort of mean girl behavior on Thrones before: In season 7, Sansa and Arya expressed suspicion toward one another for rather flimsy reasons... The sisters spent most of the season fighting about things in private that didn’t make a ton of sense: The two have always squabbled over what it means to be a powerful woman, but never over which one of them ought to have more power. Littlefinger wasn’t in the room during these fights, so it’s unclear whether they were genuine or a put-on—Bran actor Isaac Hampstead Wright has suggestedthe former, which just seems out of character for the two women, who are portrayed as smart and thoughtful...

And yet in the very limited time each talks to or about the other in the episode, both [Daenerys and Sansa] make comments on the other’s beauty. Daenerys tells Sansa when she meets her that she’s as beautiful as Jon described. Later, when Jon tells Sansa in private that Daenerys is “not her father,” Sansa retorts, “No, she’s much prettier.” Such lines feel like something conjured for the show seven long years ago when Sansa and Daenerys were functioning in an entirely different system where Jon or any other man’s approval mattered.

Sansa and Daenerys do have legitimate issues with each other. But it would be easy enough to build tension between Sansa and Daenerys without the undertones of jealousy. I don’t think this explanation would have been given to describe why Jon might be suspicious of Jaime when he enters Winterfell, nor do I think the show would play up rivalries between men like they were scenes from Mean Girls.

http://time.com/5570507/game-of-thrones-daenerys-sansa/

I'm not sure how they even have legitimate concerns about one another, to be honest. Dany actually had concerns about feeding Drogon, but when Sansa asked about it apparently it was TOO FAR for her to "disrespect" her queen. And this is apparently when the only thing Dany cares about is saving humanity rather than being a ruler, anyway. 

[Le Cygne]

Not seeing the problem, either. Dany is providing the North with a couple of nuclear weapons that no doubt will be used to win the war. So let's see, annihilation or catfight. Tough decision.

From several articles, it seems this all blows over/is just filler about nothing. They keep saying "at first" she is opposed to Dany, which I guess means things change when the dragons save them.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

1 hour ago, Prince of the North said:

HA!  Yes, yet another "wtf" moment!  I mean, we've always known the undead army moves at the speed of plot (i.e. glacially) but now it has an undead dragon which, as established last season, can cover half the length of Westeros in a matter of hours.  Realistically (who am I kidding?), the NK could just do to every stronghold of the living basically what Balerion did to Harrenhall before the living even have a chance to prepare.  Also, yes, Winterfell would have scouts out or at least would be receiving ravens with info on the movements of the undead army.  Oh well, maybe next ep?  

yes WTF!!!!!!!

however I was thinking about this later on, Possibly the WW on dragonback cannot move too far away from his Deep Winter Storm, like he has to stay with his army and with the weather.  This makes the most sense in the books (where they certainly will not have a dragon). Of course this is not explained on show, we have to come up with the explanations ourselves.

Cuz yeah otherwise he would have already been at Winterfell. Jaime made it from KL to WF in one day, so it should only take like 5 minutes to get from the Wall to WF........

41 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Fully agree here. It was rushed and not focused on the issue that should have been first for Jon. Sloppy sequencing just to rush through the plot to get to the end. If this scene alone doesn't show viewers that showrunners are done with the show and want to move on, I don't know what will?

As an option, and to tie in to dragon riding (which came way too easy and I loathed Dany's remark that "no one knows how to ride a dragon" because f*ck history and books she has read), they could have had Sam tell Jon, Jon reject the idea, go off and learn to ride, have the reality hit him, and then go back to the crypts and think things through/get details from Bran.

This is how I saw it going as well, Jon is told who he is, then when coping with his new identity, him and Ghost walk up to a riderless dragon who is friendly to him and it hits Jon that 'Hey I can ride one of these!!' and then tries it. Which would have made it much more magical and meaningful, instead D7D just shat all over something I have been looking forward to for 10+ years

14 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

falls outside cgi budget like elephants and ghost

Lol the GC literally said to Cersei "It's too expensive."  I guess when you're writing is so awful you might as well just use the actual production reason as the explanation in the script.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

5 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Not seeing the problem, either. Dany is providing the North with a couple of nuclear weapons that no doubt will be used to win the war. So let's see, annihilation or catfight. Tough decision.

From several articles, it seems this all blows over/is just filler about nothing. They keep saying "at first" she is opposed to Dany, which I guess means things change when the dragons save them.

Yup, this is how I see it to, just some women being stupid jealous women as a filler, GREAT!

At least one of the girls is the Smartest person ever.

[Le Cygne]

1 minute ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

Yup, this is how I see it to, just some women being stupid jealous women as a filler, GREAT!

At least one of the girls is the Smartest person ever.

Ha ha ha, and this is after they called her a slow learner last season, because, like, she had to be told Littlefinger was a really bad dude, after all this time. 

[Vaith]

Just now, Le Cygne said:

Ha ha ha, and this is after they called her a slow learner last season, because, like, she had to be told Littlefinger was a really bad dude, after all this time. 

I didn't have a problem with the line turning my brain off and thinking of Book Sansa, but.... just everything about the Sansa Marriage Strike. 

[kissdbyfire]

Oh, and the dragon flying scene w/ the waterfall and faux sexy time, on top of flying around in freezing weather w/o any head/face protection, we get more awesome dialogue:

”we could stay here for 1,000 years”

Wut? What does it mean? It’s snowing and it’s freezing, who’d wanna stay there longer than 2mins? It’s not the Blue Lagoon, ffs. 

[divica]

24 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Seeing some negative articles again this season. Spotted this one.

Game of Thrones has come under fire before for its portrayal of women, from a rape scene shot to emphasize the suffering of a male victim to hackneyed plots that turn otherwise strong female characters into damsels in distress. This may have something to do with the male-heavy writers’ room: There are four men on Game of Thrones’ writing staff, though three women have received writing credits on a handful of episodes over the show’s eight seasons; women were shut out of both writing and directing jobs for every episode in season 8. But it’s also in keeping with the traditions of the fantasy genre, in which stories lean on the idea that women have to suffer in order to become powerful. On Game of Thrones, just about every powerful woman left on the show has been sexually abused or humiliated in some way.

In recent years, though, the show has made moves to improve its depictions of women. As we entered season 8, Sansa and Daenerys, two of the characters who have suffered the most on the show, were poised to finally meet. Each had grown from a pawn used by the men around them to powerful leaders and political players in their own right. But while their respective suffering may be over, subtle sexism still found its way into the script. The first episode of the eighth season played into one of the most tiresome and toxic tropes in Hollywood, politics, media and beyond: The catfight...

We’ve seen this sort of mean girl behavior on Thrones before: In season 7, Sansa and Arya expressed suspicion toward one another for rather flimsy reasons... The sisters spent most of the season fighting about things in private that didn’t make a ton of sense: The two have always squabbled over what it means to be a powerful woman, but never over which one of them ought to have more power. Littlefinger wasn’t in the room during these fights, so it’s unclear whether they were genuine or a put-on—Bran actor Isaac Hampstead Wright has suggested the former, which just seems out of character for the two women, who are portrayed as smart and thoughtful...

Sansa and Daenerys do have legitimate issues with each other. But it would be easy enough to build tension between Sansa and Daenerys without the undertones of jealousy. I don’t think this explanation would have been given to describe why Jon might be suspicious of Jaime when he enters Winterfell, nor do I think the show would play up rivalries between men like they were scenes from Mean Girls.

http://time.com/5570507/game-of-thrones-daenerys-sansa/

A completly stupid article tainted with extreme femeninism. It touches on one or two things that I agree, but the tone and mensage that women must be present, that they can t be victims and that there is an agenda against women revolts me.

And by the way, the rivalry between Jaime and euron last season was like scenes from mean girls and characters like bran or Jaime sufered and were victims to get where they are today.

[Ser Drewy]

1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said:

Oh, and the dragon flying scene w/ the waterfall and faux sexy time, on top of flying around in freezing weather w/o any head/face protection, we get more awesome dialogue:

”we could stay here for 1,000 years”

Wut? What does it mean? It’s snowing and it’s freezing, who’d wanna stay there longer than 2mins? It’s not the Blue Lagoon, ffs. 

I thought it was their weird attempt to mimic the Jon/Ygritte cave scene. 

[Dragons Are Real]

36 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

Also...logic? Story continuity?  Internal consistency?  Pffft!  No one cares about any of that, silly!!! 

That's all for eighth grade book reports, like character development and themes.

[kissdbyfire]

3 minutes ago, Ser Drewy said:

I thought it was their weird attempt to mimic the Jon/Ygritte cave scene. 

Yeah, the thought occurred to me as well. I dismissed it b/c it made the whole thing feel even dumber for me.

[kissdbyfire]

Some interesting bits here. I liked the ranking of meetings/reunions. 

1. Sam and Dany
This first encounter was very good because it was very bad. Cheery, friendly princess of the people Dany tries her best to appeal to her boyfriend’s BFF, but fails miserably when she has to reveal to an increasingly distraught Samwell Tarly that she murdered his father and his brother. Ooops. Sam, one of the show’s most reliable barometers of real morality, met Dany and found her wanting.

2. Sansa and Tyrion
While I think that “rooting” for anyone to “win” is genuinely antithetical to the entire meaning of the show, I am … totally rooting for Sansa, so I like it when she gets to be wise and embittered and neg Tyrion.

3. Theon and Yara
Weirdly, given how generally inscrutable and boring I find the Iron Islands plotline to be, I found this reunion moving. I’m glad Theon is pulling his tattered psyche together in time to go sacrifice himself for the Starks.

4. Arya and the Hound
The problem with all of Arya’s encounters with friends and frenemies from her past is that she is so twisted and morally enervated she can’t experience joy or happiness outside the context of bloody revenge. But the Hound is also twisted and morally enervated, so their affectionate show of mutual disdain was fairly satisfying.

5. Arya and Gendry
I was not expecting my rom-com banter to come from Arya and Gendry—“I always knew you were just another rich girl”; “You don’t know any other rich girls”—but no complaints.

6. Jon and Arya
Should have been moving! Was not! Also downgraded this scene because having two sequences in a row reference Sansa and intelligence is a bad sign for Sansa, whom I am not rooting for except that I am.

7. Dany and Sansa
Game of Thrones—despite the sexposition that is somehow still happening—has more interesting, knotty female characters than it does male ones. And yet the groundwork is being laid for the show to devolve into a Dany vs. Sansa catfight, with Jon as the dope between them. Not feeling it.

8. Jon and the Dragon
Aka an advertisement for a future theme park ride.

9. Bran and Jon
“You’re a man!” Jon tells Bran, who is, in fact, a cardboard statue.

10. Bran and Jaime
This was the record-scratch ending of the episode: Bran and Jaime laying eyes on each other for the first time since Jaime tossed Bran out a window, paralyzing him, in the show’s first episode. It would pack more punch if Bran was still Bran, and not a monotonous, all-seeing automaton.