Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[Lady Fevre Dream]

37 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Oh, that is priceless.   The truth will out. And these truths are self-evident.

I loved Jacob with the basic:  Hush, aren't you even THINKING about a possible Star Wars job. 

 

37 minutes ago, divica said:

AHAHAHA

How is it possible that the scripts got approved to be filmed? Nobody cares about accuracy? 

I do think it appears that the Ds have too much ownership/controlling interest on the creative end of things.  'Creative' what a joke.  Plus, they did have many diehard show fans either defending everything they did for the past few seasons or actually honeypotting the missing answers for the writers themselves as well as the casual viewer that tunes in for some fun, beautiful pictures, and 'tits and dragons.'  With that track record of success built on the first few seasons, the production values, the hand waving of problematic and nonsensical things, even if HBO had more creative control than I'm giving them credit for......I wonder how much of this season they would have objected to anyway, considering the track record of 'success?' 

[Cas Stark]

12 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

I'm really looking forward to the NDA's running out when the season ends.  The actors have already had more than a few little snark moments here or there, and some that have been off the show a while have come right out and said what shit it was to work for those assholes.  Stannis's actor for one had several very revealing things to say about them.

Maybe if they are just as noisy as the fandom about what a shit-show it was behind the scenes it'll start to have an affect on their careers going forward?  I hate to wish ill on anyone, but I'd really like to see them pursuing work they're qualified to do.  And it's very clear that writing, producing and directing screen plays isn't it.

I somewhat doubt this happens, beyond a few cryptic remarks.  Most of these actors have GOT and GOT only to thank for their fame, their careers and their fortunes, and it's a bad look generally to criticize the producers and directors, even A listers don't do it very frequently and none of these people are A list.  No one is going to want to burn bridges with HBO or Disney.  There have already been enough comments for me to tell that the showrunners ran a demanding and chaotic set at all times, failed to give the actors sufficient guidance on their characters and had a tendency toward pettiness when questioned.  More than that, I doubt we see.

[Nowy Tends]

13 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

Stannis's actor for one had several very revealing things to say about them.

Yes but IMO he won't go further. Not his style. His name is Stephen Dillane btw

[Dragons Are Real]

23 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

Yes but IMO he won't go further. Not his style. His name is Stephen Dillane btw

Thanks for that.

I doubt anybody will go full psycho rant after the show is over, but I'll bet at the very least we'll get more than just "BAST SEASON EVAR!" from Emilia Clarke and more than "Disappointing" from Kit Harrington.  I mean, Hollywood doesn't eat their own in general, so it'll be light-hearted poking at best, but I still think we're going to hear something more from them.

[divica]

28 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

I do think it appears that the Ds have too much ownership/controlling interest on the creative end of things.  'Creative' what a joke.  Plus, they did have many diehard show fans either defending everything they did for the past few seasons or actually honeypotting the missing answers for the writers themselves as well as the casual viewer that tunes in for some fun, beautiful pictures, and 'tits and dragons.'  With that track record of success built on the first few seasons, the production values, the hand waving of problematic and nonsensical things, even if HBO had more creative control than I'm giving them credit for......I wonder how much of this season they would have objected to anyway, considering the track record of 'success?' 

But the thing is that this season was really important for HBO. With the wheel of time, the witcher and lotr coming to tv HBO needs their fantasy show… 

And no matter how good the prequels are they will start behind any of these new fantasy shows… This season burned a lot of social media interest in GOT...

And lets not talk about merchandising, blu rays and other shit HBO could make Money with… 

Even if they gave a lot of liberty to D&D they should garante that there is a minimum of quality in the work. Otherwise they are fucked… If they wanted to keep a GOT franchise they should have paid whatever was necessary to push D&D away if they insisted in doing this season. In the long run it would have been more profitable from them...

35 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I somewhat doubt this happens, beyond a few cryptic remarks.  Most of these actors have GOT and GOT only to thank for their fame, their careers and their fortunes, and it's a bad look generally to criticize the producers and directors, even A listers don't do it very frequently and none of these people are A list.  No one is going to want to burn bridges with HBO or Disney.  There have already been enough comments for me to tell that the showrunners ran a demanding and chaotic set at all times, failed to give the actors sufficient guidance on their characters and had a tendency toward pettiness when questioned.  More than that, I doubt we see.

I think it will depend if they have another solid project and if there are interviews post series. Any honest interview that makes them talk about this season will put them in a very dificult position… It is very dificult to talk about it and don t criticize the script in some way… And the actors themselves don t seem to like where the story went...

[Le Cygne]

Lots of reviews bashing Cleganebowl (aka Pointlessbowl), as well as Jaime's pointless death:

Jaime earned his reputation as the “Kingslayer” while protecting the people of King’s Landing from being burnt alive. He embraced a life of being painted as the villain to save those people. In this episode though, we hear him say he “never cared for” those same people, “innocent or otherwise.” Fine, he changed his mind. But why did that happen? Why is this now what he feels he deserves? What extinguished the hope he once had for a different sort of life? All of it goes left unsaid...

Instead of choosing life, [The Hound] embraces a futile death for the sake of killing his lifelong tormentor, his older brother Gregor Clegane. The brotherly showdown has been the stuff of half-joking fan theories for years, so it’s a bit jarring to see it play out in this particular moment. It also shuns the catharsis fans hoped “Cleganebowl” would offer The Hound. He gets his revenge, but it costs him the second chance at life he got after Brienne left him for dead... Like with Jaime, it tells us that ultimately, this is what The Hound felt he deserved and what he wanted, damn the rest. The “why” of that, frustratingly, is also left vague.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/game-of-thrones-the-bells-baffling-decision-to-turn-daenerys-into-a-crazy-murderous-ex-girlfriend

Another:

Alas, the long-awaited “Cleganebowl” lands with a thud, as Game of Thrones 8×05 confuses the fight for the ultimate battle. The tussle between the Mountain and the Hound is just a match of physicality, unjustified by any pressing inspiration beyond a shallow showdown. Sandor Clegane fights his brother because… he wants to, and it would look really cool!

Though Clegane has changed in other ways throughout his time on Game of Thrones, this very occasional touchpoint has apparently not been remotely altered by those experiences. There is no meaning behind his death in this arena, and it feels like a hollow conclusion to a defining powerhouse of the series.

https://www.hypable.com/game-of-thrones-8x05-review-the-bells/

Another:

Loser: Cleganebowl

After years upon years of hype, Cleganebowl aimed for the epic while feeling utterly inconsequential, which is maybe a great subtweet of “The Bells” as a whole. It took place on a crumbling staircase (cool), as a dragon periodically flew overhead (cool), and as we looked upon the zombified remains of Gregor Clegane (COOL!).

But as it was happening, I realized I had absolutely no emotional investment in what was unfolding, beyond having a vague idea that I was sad the Hound couldn’t escape his own cycles of abuse and trauma. It played out in the most perfunctory fashion possible, though I’m pretty sure it would have sounded so much cooler if scored by the Doof Warrior from Mad Max: Fury Road.

Loser: the breaking of cycles

Much of Game of Thrones, thematically, has been about breaking destructive cycles — whether political cycles, cycles of violence, or cycles of oppression... (For more on this idea, check out Twitter user @chachch_changes’ thread on Cleganebowl.) So some portion of the [show] ending will be at least somewhat hopeful about the possibility of breaking these cycles, right?

Nah. That turns out to mostly not be the case, and it turns out to not be the case in the most bitter and dark way possible, as Daenerys succumbs to what amounts to a family curse, the Hound plunges into battle against the Mountain, and Jaime returns to Cersei after seeming to swear her off multiple times previously.

https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/5/13/18617316/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-recap-the-bells-winners-losers

Another:

It felt more like fan-service than something Martin would write. And with his helmet off, Gregor was either Swole Varys or Darth Vader on steroids, I'm not quite sure. Either way, he was no match for Sandor, at least form a storytelling point of view. Sandor was willing to leap to his death, so long as he took the Mountain with him. I'm still not quite sure it was worth it.

The Mountain was a cartoon villain, and the Hound was so much more. They never should have crossed blades...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2019/05/13/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-recap-and-review-the-battle-of-kings-landing/

Another:

The source material was literary and the drama’s intentions were epic, but its success reflected the instincts of reality TV, a competition culture that inspires engagement toward an endgame: the final Rose Ceremony, the Head of Household competition, whoever will finally sit upon the Iron Throne. (This is why Game of Thrones was especially beloved by people who think art should be enjoyed like sports.)...

It was a big moment, the kind of hashtaggy mini-event Thrones tried to create often in its last few years. That urge could leave some characters in the lurch, though, sacrificing drama at the altar of coolness. The single most maddening sequence in the entire run of Game of Thrones came in the penultimate episode, when two giant man-hulks met on a stairwell for their final eye-gouging punchfight — and Queen Cersei Lannister, First of Her Name, had to quietly skitter past them. Was that scene supposed to be funny? It felt reductive, no matter what, all her great plans dissolving away from a climactic bro-down...

Left to their own devices, they eventually gave in in to some of the worst instincts of fan fiction, like that time they threw a bunch of characters together for a dull trip beyond the wall to pick up a zombie corpse. I believe strongly that the best instinct of the books and the series was the urge to subvert your narrative expectations — but by the time the show staged #CleganeBowl as a showdown out of a Mortal Kombat movie, it felt like Twitter’s trending topics deserved a co-writing credit.

https://ew.com/tv-reviews/2019/05/20/game-of-thrones-finale-series-review/

Another:

'Cleganebowl:' When Fan Service Swallows The Narrative

“Cleganebowl” was an ongoing meme... a surface reading of the brother’s twisted relationship... The scar [the Mountain] left on his little brother was psychological... murdering the man who’d turned him into a murderer wasn’t going to heal him... The rivalry wasn’t really there... After all, the Mountain died long ago, a literal zombie puppeteered by Qyburn... The Hound threw himself into the fire, just so he could burn his brother’s corpse...

Really, it was a victory for the Mountain. Sandor never managed to escape the effect of his elder brother’s abuse; he followed him into the flames of self-destruction. From beginning to end, Sandor’s story was desperately sad. My ideal ending for Sandor would have seen him retiring, enjoying a peaceful life, backing down from bar fights and munching on chicken, finally strong enough to ignore his worst instincts.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2019/05/14/cleganebowl-when-fan-service-swallows-the-narrative/

Another:

Then there was the much anticipated Cleganebowl, which, like much of this episode, felt like it was pandering to the expectations of a generation steeped in the hyperreal visual language of computer games. It felt placed there purely to live up to a promise; Gregor is unmasked, like a wrestler, revealed as apparently undead as he is able to shrug off a knife through the brain as a mere flesh wound. Both tumble into the fiery depths in what presumably must be declared a draw.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/may/13/dragon-fire-and-fury-game-of-thrones-has-turned-on-its-bloodthirsty-fans

Another:

Sorry. But no. I just didn’t buy that. Any of it...

This was an episode when just about everyone seemed to be acting out of character. Arya, at the last minute chickening out of her pursuit of Cersei (a pursuit that’s lasted a good seven seasons). Euron, pointlessly picking a fight to the death with Jaime when instead he could have pinched Jaime’s boat and rowed off to safety in it. We know Euron’s a leering hothead, but surely this time pragmatism would have prevailed. And what a ludicrous fight it was, as well. Same as The Hound’s with The Mountain. In both cases, each combatant taking it in turns to land what surely should have been a fatal blow – only to wheeze, stagger once again to his feet, and then take another swing. And so on, and so on, and so on, for minutes on end.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/game-thrones-season-8-episode-5-review-the-bells-series-has-ruined-beyond-repair/

Here are some more:

We then get to Jaime... and then Euron shows up to fight him for no reason. I really thought Theon was going to fight Euron because he killed his dad... or Yara because he killed her dad... I would have never guessed this pairing in a million years, because it makes no sense. There has not been a boss fight on the beach more pointless since, well, last season...

Then we get to Pointlessbowl, the epic fight between two people who have no reason to be facing off at this juncture, and whose fight is made irrelevant as the castle is collapsing and will kill both of them anyway... And then Pointlessbowl goes on and on and on... ending with the Hound falling several stories (and he probably survives).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gim-hUlOnsA

Another:

After [Jaime] goes on a journey of self-discovery... he goes and dies with his abusive partner. One of the last things he does is he beats Euron in a fight, because for some reason the writers have decided that his new arc is just learning to fight again. Him losing his sword hand is supposed to be significant for other reasons.

And this is a problem that's seen with the Hound as well. Now we have a show where the character resolutions are seen in combat. Fight scenes are the way we finish up character arcs, instead of the character actually learning something or becoming a different person by the end of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8U6kjqLkJQ

Another:

Jaime, who had the best redemption arc... decided to retain his honor, help Brienne... Turns out he just got a hair up his ass and wanted to get laid, and now he wants to go back to Cersei and die like an idiot. Didn't I say that all our favorite characters would survive the dead just to go down to the south, do stupid things, and die? Well of course, that's what's happening.

Then there was the Hound and Cleganebowl. Talk about forced. This was one of the worst regressions of character. We had the buildup and redemption of the Hound, for him just to go back and fight his brother... This battle was just fanservice with a side of nihilism, completely meaningless. So many characters that have redeemed themselves willing to just walk off to their death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFCj1Izgxpw

Another:

Jorah and Theon each get fitting ends for their characters. But nearly every other character either doesn't change at all (the Hound is pictured) or changes too quickly (Dany is pictured) and in all cases the central theme of each character's arc is rendered meaningless (Jaime is pictured)... The story is making a pretty bleak argument, that we are unable to change in any meaningful way...

The manner in which these characters are handled directly contradicts and invalidates the central themes of their stories... We thought we were watching a story about how redemption was possible even for the worst among us... but in the final moments, everything flips on a dime and we find out that no, this is actually a story about how redemption is not possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=habt4hbvJHg

Another:

So... Cleganebowl... All about that revenge... As a dramatic plot point it's really fucking dumb. One, not only is the Mountain functionally dead by this point, Oberyn Martell killed him, and what we have now is just a mindless zombie who does whatever Cersei says, but two, the books make it really clear that Sandor is finally at peace with himself and his need for revenge...

His arc wasn't about getting revenge, it was about moving past that... Who is forcing you to do this? He's dead, he's a zombie. Cleganebowl happens while Daenerys is doing some war crimes and Kings Landing is burning, they are fighting for nothing. The Hound has long since moved on, this has not been his motivation for a while. Gregor is an empty zombie shell and the world is ending outside and everyone is about to die anyway so who cares.

The Hound isn't even fighting for Arya, he's not protecting anyone. "You want to be like me?" You two rode a thousand miles on horseback and you only just now decided to have this conversation? Also Arya murdered all of [a house] and baked them into pies and fed them to their father, I'm pretty sure her revenge quest is shot the moon in comparison to yours, ser. So Cleganebowl had no reason to exist...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hys_m3BPTS8

Another:

The entire episode was just a bunch of good looking cinematics with no context or reason. It's like the writers made a list of all the fucking awesome things they wanted to happen in the episode.

Dragon blowing shit up. Check. Battles in the middle of the city. Check. Hound vs. Mountain. Check. Dragon blowing shit up. (Have we done that? Put it again.) Check... More filler that means nothing...

Why is Bronn the master of coin, the writers want to keep him around for fanservice but are too incompetent to figure out in what capacity.  That's what the Clegane fight was, fanservice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3UsmaoD5qY

Another:

The show was playing to its audience more than staying true to its own story and tone, and the way the story ended is very indicative of that. The fact that Cleganebowl actually happened is hilarious. It was a joke. We were joking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9v_5drwU2k

Another:

If the Hound was so obsessed with killing the Mountain that he was going to sacrifice himself, then what has he been doing this whole time? It would seem that this interest was provided to him by the audience rather than the world and his character's journey. Seeing this scene was almost like watching a fan fiction video, which is ironic since D&D talk about taking Jon's victory away due to it being too obvious. What was more fucking obvious than Cleganebowl. The point is that his journey seems to take a U turn from where it might have been heading... Sandor Clegane's story seems to have come out this way because D&D had read discussions online and wanted to have a meme come to life, and as a result I think we missed out on something far more meaningful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K0KaEYX41c

And another, Elio from westeros.org:

They did the Cleganebowl, they said this was a fan thing... the Cleganebowl thing makes it a teenage boy silly thing... so many people made a joke of it... The gravedigger will end up leaving the Quiet Island a changed man, but still a man of purpose. I don't think he will go, now I'm going to hunt down my brother and get my revenge... this I'm going to throw away my life because I'm going to kill my brother...

I don't think the Hound, I mean look, there are very few characters I can say with absolute certainty George won't kill, but there's a point of beauty to a fellow who made his life about the injuries done to him and being bitter and hating his brother and wanting revenge, then coming out the other side and what's next. The brilliance of AFFC for me is... for George, it's the aftermath, the thing nobody ever looks at... What's next. I'm not going to bet my life on it that he survives, but I can see the opening for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv92rBaiVbI

Another:

All that said, it would be a mistake for Cleganebowl to happen. It wasn’t very satisfying in the show and it’s sure to be less satisfying if it happens in The Winds of Winter. This is especially true considering Sandor’s personal journey thus far. Sandor’s entire life has been spent trying to fight the urge to be violent. He hated Gregor for the brutality and violence he so easily used against people. Sandor wanted to be better than his rage-fueled brother, as evidenced by his loyal protection of the Stark sisters. He’s had a lot of missteps, but the Hound’s path towards a life of less violence has been satisfying. Still, it was frustrating to see Sandor develop meaningful friendships and find a cause bigger than revenge, only to give his life at the end of Season 8 to fulfill the vendetta he'd outgrown.

If the Hound is indeed revealed to be the gravedigger, then it might be best to let him live out the rest of his life in peace — or at least leave his fraternal grudge in the past. He’s suffered at the hands of his brother long enough.

https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/winds-of-winter-release-date-cleganebowl

Another:

We've covered much of this previously in detail over the last month or so. Daenerys' (Emilia Clarke) transformation from a slave-freeing ruler who wanted to “break the wheel” to a spontaneous mass murderer who became a tyrant herself wasn't convincing at all. Her advisor Tyrion (Peter Dinklage), who was picked for his intelligence, only made uncharacteristic bad calls for the past two seasons. Game of Thrones entirely botched the endings for Cersei and Jaime and turned genre-subverting characters such as Brienne (Gwendoline Christie) and Sandor “The Hound” Clegane (Rory McCann) into clichés towards the end.

https://gadgets360.com/entertainment/reviews/game-of-thrones-season-8-finale-review-hbo-2040288

[Dragons Are Real]

This is a good one:

 

"I don't know if I'm gonna watch the final episode, if I'm being honest."  Damn.  That is BRUTAL coming from one of the actors.

[kissdbyfire]

33 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

"I don't know if I'm gonna watch the final episode, if I'm being honest."  Damn.  That is BRUTAL coming from one of the actors.

Wow. I’m now feeling really bad for Pilou Asbæk... 

Highlights: Pilou saying he thinks he won’t watch the final episode, and Emilia’s fake puking when asked about the end. So very telling, innit. 

[Nowy Tends]

This is unprecedented isn't it?  And what's it going to be when they're free to talk? 

[Nightwish]

55 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

This is a good one:

 

"I don't know if I'm gonna watch the final episode, if I'm being honest."  Damn.  That is BRUTAL coming from one of the actors.

OMG Emilia Clarke's expression puking as a reaction for the end... says it all.

ok I will need a lot of pop corn reading the fans reaction!!!

[Mindwalker]

2 hours ago, Dragons Are Real said:

This is a good one:

 

"I don't know if I'm gonna watch the final episode, if I'm being honest."  Damn.  That is BRUTAL coming from one of the actors.

But wait...didn't they have a fan contest, and the winner will watch the episode together with Emilia?

[Demetri]

2 hours ago, Nowy Tends said:

This is unprecedented isn't it?  And what's it going to be when they're free to talk? 

In that collection of videos, Emilia implies that she has a lot to say. I don't think it'll take very long. Emilia is an especially great person to really be outspoken because while she owes her fame entirely to Dany, the people who loved Dany love her inextricably. Speaking out against an injustice is very "vintage Dany" and will endear her further to her fans.

Said more shortly, she's going to say exactly what she thinks in about 4 days.

[Demetri]

4 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

But wait...didn't they have a fan contest, and the winner will watch the episode together with Emilia?

Pilou said that.

And man...that's gonna be awkward...

[kissdbyfire]

10 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

But wait...didn't they have a fan contest, and the winner will watch the episode together with Emilia?

It’s Pilou who said he probably won’t watch the finale.

‘d by @Demetri

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

What could have been:

Instead we got ...finger in the bum

 

[lakin1013]

918,600+ ... have signed the petition.  If they can get to one million before Sunday evening, they can easily get to 2 million after the finale.  

[House Cambodia]

Given that it took about two years to get season 8 out, surely the sensible thing to do is let GRRM finish the last two books - or at least tWoW if he really hasn't got going with aDoS yet, and base any re-shoot of the last season or better 3 seasons on the source material.

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

I'm not signing the petition because previous seasons have problems too.  It's not just the last one.

[divica]

4 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Given that it took about two years to get season 8 out, surely the sensible thing to do is let GRRM finish the last two books - or at least tWoW if he really hasn't got going with aDoS yet, and base any re-shoot of the last season or better 3 seasons on the source material.

If it ever gets re shot it will be in animation form. It just doesnt make sense to do anything else...

5 minutes ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

I'm not signing the petition because previous seasons have problems too.  It's not just the last one.

Sign it to show you aren t happy with the writting of the show...

[House Cambodia]

1 minute ago, divica said:

If it ever gets re shot it will be in animation form. It just doesnt make sense to do anything else...

I'm a bit old for cartoon, me. I'll pass.