Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[rotting sea cow]

On 5/21/2019 at 6:35 PM, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Can you imagine Emilia getting the scripts for this last season for the first time?  She had to be shocked to see;  Oh, wait, I'm some kind of combo of Hitler and Genghis Khan, with a touch of Alexander the Great and his quest of eternal war, but mostly, Hitler and Stalin, I guess. 

Not like they weren't very subtle

just google Nuremberg rally, iron eagle and Niemoller "first they came"..

 

 

 

[Nowy Tends]

And now this, lol:

https://mynorthwest.com/1391321/game-of-thrones-fan-raises-money-to-fly-banner-over-seattle-asking-for-a-season-rewrite/

 

 

[Mindwalker]

Nice!

How about: What was the relevance of the spirally symbols? Was the NK just a misunderstood artist?

Is Bran the younger, more beautiful Queen?

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, rotting sea cow said:

Not like they weren't very subtle

just google Nuremberg rally, iron eagle and Niemoller "first they came"..

 

 

 

"First they came for the slave traders.  And I did nothing.  I was not a slave trader.

Then they came for the rapists, and I did nothing.  I was not a rapist...."

[hewman]

1 hour ago, rotting sea cow said:

Not like they weren't very subtle

just google Nuremberg rally, iron eagle and Niemoller "first they came"..

Every time the unsullied slammed their spears into the ground I expected to hear someone sing “auf der heide blüht ein kleines blümelein...”. 

No, not subtle at all. Well as long as it made sense creatively.

 

[SeanF]

4 minutes ago, hewman said:

Every time the unsullied slammed their spears into the ground I expected to hear someone sing “auf der heide blüht ein kleines blümelein...”. 

No, not subtle at all. Well as long as it made sense creatively.

 

LOL!

Dany's appearance is very Aryan.  I expected to see a pair of silver lightning runes on her collar, and remains of the Red Keep to be draped with swastika banners.

[rotting sea cow]

9 minutes ago, hewman said:

Every time the unsullied slammed their spears into the ground I expected to hear someone sing “auf der heide blüht ein kleines blümelein...”. 

No, not subtle at all. Well as long as it made sense creatively.

 

 

2 minutes ago, SeanF said:

LOL!

Dany's appearance is very Aryan.  I expected to see a pair of silver lightning runes on her collar, and remains of the Red Keep to be draped with swastika banners.

But the twist here is the armies on front are dark skinned evil foreigners and the fuhrer is a psychopathic woman.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

2 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

 

But the twist here is the armies on front are dark skinned evil foreigners and the fuhrer is a psychopathic woman.

You know the saying:  Bitches Be Crazy!!  

 

 

[rotting sea cow]

17 minutes ago, SeanF said:

"First they came for the slave traders.  And I did nothing.  I was not a slave trader.

Then they came for the rapists, and I did nothing.  I was not a rapist...."

Daenerys is a tyrant who want to restrict my freedom to possess slaves!!!

 

[Dragons Are Real]

13 hours ago, lakin1013 said:

Recently Martin said that The Winds of Winter will have UNICORNS.    Really?  I know it is a fantasy but we already  have dragons, direwolves, and unseen ice spiders.  We don't really need unicorns, we need the book.  And the idea of totally fanciful unicorns scares me, like the book is moving from fantasy to a pre-teen fantasy romance.  Maybe Martin was kidding.

 

13 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Well, unicorns are mentioned in TWoIaF.  And even before that, many of us have speculated that it's an unicorn that rakes Shaggy's skin as we see in the wolf dream Jon has in Dance. And Martin said he'll have "unicorns. Sorta". I. Can't. Wait. Because they're gonna be fierce beasts, ridden by the wild skagosi into battle. You know, the group coming over to Westeros w/ Rickon.

 

Yeah, my first thought when Martin mentioned unicorns was instantly that he'd going to flip the concept on its head and their gonna be mean sons-a-bitches that everyone is terrified of.  I had a story I wrote when I was in my twenties where the saying, "the unicorns are coming" would send the commoners running for the keeps because they knew they couldn't stand up to them.  And the unicorns would smash down brick walls with ease.  Something along those lines should fit right into Martin's universe.

[hewman]

15 minutes ago, SeanF said:

LOL!

Dany's appearance is very Aryan.  I expected to see a pair of silver lightning runes on her collar, and remains of the Red Keep to be draped with swastika banners.

Actually, now that you mention it, I think it was, kinda. Didn’t strike me then but there was a black flag with the three headed red dragon hanging on the wall I think. 

[Dragons Are Real]

OMG.  On another message board someone complained about certain characters being dropped from the show.  And the response they get?

Quote

I am sorry but you are referring some spinoff book.

So, since I'd been thinking of doing this anyway, I launched into a rant.  It follows:

Funny, I was just thinking about doing a write up about why some people are upset about the way the end of the series was handled, and some people aren't, and you provide a shining example of what one of my arguments was going to be.

People enjoy entertainment in different ways. Some people enjoy the intricacies of the plot, the depth of characters, the plotting and scheming and sometimes even the thoughts of what went into the creative process itself. Others enjoy spectacle, allowing it to wash over them in a more passive way, never fully investing in the characters, the plot, the machinations of the politics, or whatever else is happening. I'm not going to say that either way is the "correct" way to take in entertainment. I'll just say that those are definitely two very different perspectives that exist.

Game of Thrones became a cultural phenomenon for the precise reason that it could pull in both types of people. In the early seasons there was plenty of spectacle, but there was also a plethora of colorful characterization, political intrigue, interactions among individuals and houses, bloodlines and families, all set on a backdrop to die for if you love huge set pieces and gruesome living conditions. Add in the fact that the books universe had existed for some people for at least a decade when it kicked off, and you have some rabid fans already built in. Those fans are more likely to be interested in the depths of the story and characters, but that's not to say they're the only ones that came in with that view. 

And in the pursuing years, some that showed up for the spectacle began to appreciate the depth of the show as they witnessed it without ever intending to. Others remained steadfast in their love of the spectacle, and their enjoyment of the shocking turns and huge reveals.

Fast forward a few years and the show begins dropping intrigue and plotting, focusing more and more on the spectacle. Hollywood has plenty of spectacle already, so those that showed up for the deeper characterization and plots that actually had content rather than just huge twists and turns without reason begin to be disappointed. But they are reminded time and again that these people know what they are doing, and it will all pay off in the end. So, some of them wait it out, though some did stop watching due to disappointment. Not all of these were previously book readers either, though I will admit to seeing that particular crowd be more likely to give up in frustration at the important plot elements being dropped for no apparent reason other than shortening story threads and moving things along faster. You can include George himself in this crowd. I won't speculate whether he still watches the show, but I do know he stopped being directly involved after the show runners told him the people he considered important for the end game would be skipped over because the show runners didn't like the characters. (For those keeping score, Lady Stoneheart was the straw that broke the camel's back here from what I've heard.)

And now, the final season. Those entranced with the spectacle are happy, as well they should be. They signed up for huge set pieces, massive armies clashing in battle, dragons and flame, death and shocks. They got everything they wanted. Those waiting for the reveal of where it was all leading character wise, plot wise, politically, or to see the culmination of the years of build up for the white walkers and the Night King, the prophecies, the groundwork laid for eight seasons paying off in some real way? They have a right to be disappointed. They were ignored. Plot no longer mattered. Characters turned on a dime because believable situations needed to fold in order to rush to the end. And the deep political threads woven through the first few seasons made even less sense in the end than they had when Cersei declared herself queen and no one protested even a little.

Neither group is completely wrong, but the anger at each other seems foolish. The show runners could have chosen to end this the same way the began it. Ending it with depth, full and believable character arcs that were fleshed out all the way, and non comedic fulfillment of at least some of the promise the show began with wouldn't have disappointed the people there for spectacle. The spectacle would always be there. But those that wanted more question why what began with such promise couldn't have ended as something more than what every big budget Hollywood schlockfest gives us these days. There's a million ways to fulfill your entertainment needs if you're looking for spectacle over substance. I'm a fan of many of those properties myself. Fast and the Furious movies are terrific to shut down your brain and just watch the crazy. So many action franchises are built on this premise. Several sit-coms do the job nicely. But for those that loved that something big budget didn't immediately sink to the lowest common denominator when Game of Thones started, to see it go that direction at the end left them disappointed. And in some cases more than disappointed.

The "you're wrong" attitude being bandied about between fans is just silly. The show runners could have chosen to do this in a way that left everyone satisfied. Instead, they publicly stated they wanted to get this over with as quickly as they could, and told HBO they wanted smaller seasons (and less than originally agreed to) because they had done the one scene they wanted when they completed the Red Wedding. Then they signed for Star Wars while working on the final season and gave even less of a shit than they had before. The end result is a spectacle, for sure, but a spectacle that rings hollow for some of us. I don't fault those that didn't care about the depth of the show before. I fault the show runners for focusing completely on getting done as fast as they could so they could move on rather than giving the story a believable conclusion for all the fans, regardless of their perspective on why they started watching.

With the frayed emotions at the moment, referring to the source as "some spinoff book" is bound to ruffle some feathers. Sorry for what you're bound to endure for saying it.

[BalerionTheCat]

4 hours ago, hewman said:

Actually, now that you mention it, I think it was, kinda. Didn’t strike me then but there was a black flag with the three headed red dragon hanging on the wall I think. 

It reminded me of Saruman at Orthanc ,in Peter Jackson LOTR. But yes, it was the same as in different Nazis setting in fantastic films. TBH, most (if not all) of her speeches to the Dothrakis were heinous. Not just this season.

[Zorral]

6 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Daenerys is a tyrant who want to restrict my freedom to possess slaves!!!

That's exactly what the South's slavocracy were howling about the Northern states since just about the moment they joined the Union.

They are saying around New Mexico that a ghostwriter has been hired to finish the books ... make of this what you will, if there are unicorns in them.  

 

 

[Every Last Chicken]

2 hours ago, Dragons Are Real said:

OMG.  On another message board someone complained about certain characters being dropped from the show.  And the response they get?

So, since I'd been thinking of doing this anyway, I launched into a rant.  It follows:

Funny, I was just thinking about doing a write up about why some people are upset about the way the end of the series was handled, and some people aren't, and you provide a shining example of what one of my arguments was going to be.

People enjoy entertainment in different ways. Some people enjoy the intricacies of the plot, the depth of characters, the plotting and scheming and sometimes even the thoughts of what went into the creative process itself. Others enjoy spectacle, allowing it to wash over them in a more passive way, never fully investing in the characters, the plot, the machinations of the politics, or whatever else is happening. I'm not going to say that either way is the "correct" way to take in entertainment. I'll just say that those are definitely two very different perspectives that exist.

Game of Thrones became a cultural phenomenon for the precise reason that it could pull in both types of people. In the early seasons there was plenty of spectacle, but there was also a plethora of colorful characterization, political intrigue, interactions among individuals and houses, bloodlines and families, all set on a backdrop to die for if you love huge set pieces and gruesome living conditions. Add in the fact that the books universe had existed for some people for at least a decade when it kicked off, and you have some rabid fans already built in. Those fans are more likely to be interested in the depths of the story and characters, but that's not to say they're the only ones that came in with that view. 

And in the pursuing years, some that showed up for the spectacle began to appreciate the depth of the show as they witnessed it without ever intending to. Others remained steadfast in their love of the spectacle, and their enjoyment of the shocking turns and huge reveals.

Fast forward a few years and the show begins dropping intrigue and plotting, focusing more and more on the spectacle. Hollywood has plenty of spectacle already, so those that showed up for the deeper characterization and plots that actually had content rather than just huge twists and turns without reason begin to be disappointed. But they are reminded time and again that these people know what they are doing, and it will all pay off in the end. So, some of them wait it out, though some did stop watching due to disappointment. Not all of these were previously book readers either, though I will admit to seeing that particular crowd be more likely to give up in frustration at the important plot elements being dropped for no apparent reason other than shortening story threads and moving things along faster. You can include George himself in this crowd. I won't speculate whether he still watches the show, but I do know he stopped being directly involved after the show runners told him the people he considered important for the end game would be skipped over because the show runners didn't like the characters. (For those keeping score, Lady Stoneheart was the straw that broke the camel's back here from what I've heard.)

And now, the final season. Those entranced with the spectacle are happy, as well they should be. They signed up for huge set pieces, massive armies clashing in battle, dragons and flame, death and shocks. They got everything they wanted. Those waiting for the reveal of where it was all leading character wise, plot wise, politically, or to see the culmination of the years of build up for the white walkers and the Night King, the prophecies, the groundwork laid for eight seasons paying off in some real way? They have a right to be disappointed. They were ignored. Plot no longer mattered. Characters turned on a dime because believable situations needed to fold in order to rush to the end. And the deep political threads woven through the first few seasons made even less sense in the end than they had when Cersei declared herself queen and no one protested even a little.

Neither group is completely wrong, but the anger at each other seems foolish. The show runners could have chosen to end this the same way the began it. Ending it with depth, full and believable character arcs that were fleshed out all the way, and non comedic fulfillment of at least some of the promise the show began with wouldn't have disappointed the people there for spectacle. The spectacle would always be there. But those that wanted more question why what began with such promise couldn't have ended as something more than what every big budget Hollywood schlockfest gives us these days. There's a million ways to fulfill your entertainment needs if you're looking for spectacle over substance. I'm a fan of many of those properties myself. Fast and the Furious movies are terrific to shut down your brain and just watch the crazy. So many action franchises are built on this premise. Several sit-coms do the job nicely. But for those that loved that something big budget didn't immediately sink to the lowest common denominator when Game of Thones started, to see it go that direction at the end left them disappointed. And in some cases more than disappointed.

The "you're wrong" attitude being bandied about between fans is just silly. The show runners could have chosen to do this in a way that left everyone satisfied. Instead, they publicly stated they wanted to get this over with as quickly as they could, and told HBO they wanted smaller seasons (and less than originally agreed to) because they had done the one scene they wanted when they completed the Red Wedding. Then they signed for Star Wars while working on the final season and gave even less of a shit than they had before. The end result is a spectacle, for sure, but a spectacle that rings hollow for some of us. I don't fault those that didn't care about the depth of the show before. I fault the show runners for focusing completely on getting done as fast as they could so they could move on rather than giving the story a believable conclusion for all the fans, regardless of their perspective on why they started watching.

With the frayed emotions at the moment, referring to the source as "some spinoff book" is bound to ruffle some feathers. Sorry for what you're bound to endure for saying it.

I think this is the most fair of a summary that could be written for those on each side of the coin. 

[Cas Stark]

46 minutes ago, Zorral said:

That's exactly what the South's slavocracy were howling about the Northern states since just about the moment they joined the Union.

They are saying around New Mexico that a ghostwriter has been hired to finish the books ... make of this what you will, if there are unicorns in them.  

 

 

Who says it?  It's about time, I guess, but would still be surprising if true.

[SeanF]

Now at 4.3 on IMDB.

[Dragons Are Real]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

They are saying around New Mexico that a ghostwriter has been hired to finish the books ... make of this what you will, if there are unicorns in them.  

I have my doubts that George would let a ghostwriter come on board.  Doesn't sound like his style at all.

[T and A]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

They are saying around New Mexico that a ghostwriter has been hired to finish the books ... make of this what you will, if there are unicorns in them.  

I don't believe that. I wished it were true though. That would be the only way to ever get Dreams in our hands.

[Nowy Tends]

34 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Now at 4.3 on IMDB.

And the petition is over 1.5 million signatures.