Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[Tha Shiznit]

I'm curious if any of you have read the vanity fair articles on "Revelations hiding in 7 Seasons of Scripts" or "The Secrets of George R.R. Martin’s Final Script", I leave a link below for all of you to read. It's pretty shocking it took seven years for someone to reveal this and not four years ago when season 5 was out. It makes Sansa's story arc, even more infuriating. They were originally planning to do the fake Arya plot in the north. And also in season seven, David and Dan's plan for Littlefinger was to have Sansa and Arya go at each other throats and have Sansa kill Arya and declare to be queen. Only to have Sansa figure out it is Littlefinger plan to manipulate her against. It kinda makes Arya claim that Sansa it the "smartest person she knows" very dumb, especially in a deleted scene that it was Bran told Sansa of Littlefinger's plan in the first place.

(The two Vanityfair Articles)

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/12/game-of-thrones-scripts-secrets-cersei-pregnancy-tyrion-daenerys-snow-on-the-throne 

&

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/12/game-of-thrones-george-rr-martin-last-script-the-lion-and-the-rose

[miyuki]

17 hours ago, Tha Shiznit said:

I'm curious if any of you have read the vanity fair articles on "Revelations hiding in 7 Seasons of Scripts" or "The Secrets of George R.R. Martin’s Final Script", I leave a link below for all of you to read. It's pretty shocking it took seven years for someone to reveal this and not four years ago when season 5 was out. It makes Sansa's story arc, even more infuriating. They were originally planning to do the fake Arya plot in the north. And also in season seven, David and Dan's plan for Littlefinger was to have Sansa and Arya go at each other throats and have Sansa kill Arya and declare to be queen. Only to have Sansa figure out it is Littlefinger plan to manipulate her against. It kinda makes Arya claim that Sansa it the "smartest person she knows" very dumb, especially in a deleted scene that it was Bran told Sansa of Littlefinger's plan in the first place.

(The two Vanityfair Articles)

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/12/game-of-thrones-scripts-secrets-cersei-pregnancy-tyrion-daenerys-snow-on-the-throne 

&

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/12/game-of-thrones-george-rr-martin-last-script-the-lion-and-the-rose

I wonder what made them drop the "Tyrion is in love with Dany" storyline. A Jon-Dany-Tyrion love triangle in season 8 - this something so horribly bad I'd watch it just so I could hate it.

 

[The Dragon Demands]

yeah

[The Dragon Demands]

yeah

[Mystical]

Has anyone watched Shadiversity's 3D model rendering of the actual Winterfell according to the descriptions in the books? It makes all the WF battles in the show even more of a joke. Ramsey would never leave that WF and battle outside. There is no wooden door for giant to punch through. Even the army of the dead probably couldn't take it, not even with a dragon.

[kissdbyfire]

7 hours ago, Mystical said:

Has anyone watched Shadiversity's 3D model rendering of the actual Winterfell according to the descriptions in the books? It makes all the WF battles in the show even more of a joke. Ramsey would never leave that WF and battle outside. There is no wooden door for giant to punch through. Even the army of the dead probably couldn't take it, not even with a dragon.

I had never before realised how utterly stupid the round flat-ish roofs were for a place that gets that much snow.

That said, I don't remember if the roofs looked like that really, or if that's just in the opening credits?

[Mystical]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

That said, I don't remember if the roofs looked like that really, or if that's just in the opening credits?

They do really look like that. Shady had one screen cap in the video that was from earlier Seasons (no snow) which shows WF from the front but the towers had those flat-round roofs. Best shot of it is 8x01, when the dragons fly over WF. Looks exactly like what Shady used as a constant reference throughout his video.

[divica]

On 10/8/2019 at 5:39 AM, Tha Shiznit said:

I'm curious if any of you have read the vanity fair articles on "Revelations hiding in 7 Seasons of Scripts" or "The Secrets of George R.R. Martin’s Final Script", I leave a link below for all of you to read. It's pretty shocking it took seven years for someone to reveal this and not four years ago when season 5 was out. It makes Sansa's story arc, even more infuriating. They were originally planning to do the fake Arya plot in the north. And also in season seven, David and Dan's plan for Littlefinger was to have Sansa and Arya go at each other throats and have Sansa kill Arya and declare to be queen. Only to have Sansa figure out it is Littlefinger plan to manipulate her against. It kinda makes Arya claim that Sansa it the "smartest person she knows" very dumb, especially in a deleted scene that it was Bran told Sansa of Littlefinger's plan in the first place.

(The two Vanityfair Articles)

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/12/game-of-thrones-scripts-secrets-cersei-pregnancy-tyrion-daenerys-snow-on-the-throne 

&

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/12/game-of-thrones-george-rr-martin-last-script-the-lion-and-the-rose

Those plots seem much better than what we had...

[Corvinus85]

10 hours ago, Mystical said:

Has anyone watched Shadiversity's 3D model rendering of the actual Winterfell according to the descriptions in the books? It makes all the WF battles in the show even more of a joke. Ramsey would never leave that WF and battle outside. There is no wooden door for giant to punch through. Even the army of the dead probably couldn't take it, not even with a dragon.

I've tried, but the guy does like to ramble a lot. And I don't necessarily need to see his version, got a good enough mental picture and it's nowhere like the show version. Maybe I'll skip over in the video where he actually shows his creation. 

As to the bolded, no sensible lord would leave the safety of his castle, unless there was high tension between various lords inside the castle, terrible weather outside that hid the enemy's numbers, and an annoying enemy that kept pounding at drums. If only the show had done something like that, if they had a blue print to give Ramsay a good reason to face Jon outside the castles.

[SeanF]

12 hours ago, Corvinus said:

I've tried, but the guy does like to ramble a lot. And I don't necessarily need to see his version, got a good enough mental picture and it's nowhere like the show version. Maybe I'll skip over in the video where he actually shows his creation. 

As to the bolded, no sensible lord would leave the safety of his castle, unless there was high tension between various lords inside the castle, terrible weather outside that hid the enemy's numbers, and an annoying enemy that kept pounding at drums. If only the show had done something like that, if they had a blue print to give Ramsay a good reason to face Jon outside the castles.

It wouldn't have been difficult for them to hire someone like Bernard Cornwell as a consultant, who could have told them how medieval warfare worked, once George Martin was no longer involved.

[The Dragon Demands]

yeah

[Le Cygne]

On 10/8/2019 at 6:08 PM, miyuki said:

I wonder what made them drop the "Tyrion is in love with Dany" storyline. A Jon-Dany-Tyrion love triangle in season 8 - this something so horribly bad I'd watch it just so I could hate it.

That would have been hilarious to see it play out all season.

Tyrion said Dany wouldn't do him in the finale, then he talked Jon - the lucky bastard who got to do her - into murdering her.

TYRION
I know you love her. I love her, too. Not as successfully as you. But I believed in her with all my heart. Love is more powerful than reason. We all know that. Look at my brother.

So in one blow, they lauded Tyrion and Jon, who murdered her, as great lovers of Dany, and justified Jaime throwing his life away on someone evil as love, too.

Littlefinger used the word love unchallenged, too. Then his victim, Sansa, who they robbed of a love story of her own, thanked him for sex trafficking her.

They even ruined the word love. To quote Inigo Montoya, "You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means."

(Oh and they didn't even let Dany remember Drogo... their relationship was just forgotten, along with the story significance of the night lands.)

[SeanF]

12 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

That would have been hilarious to see it play out all season.

Tyrion said Dany wouldn't do him in the finale, then he talked Jon - the lucky bastard who got to do her - into murdering her.

TYRION
I know you love her. I love her, too. Not as successfully as you. But I believed in her with all my heart. Love is more powerful than reason. We all know that. Look at my brother.

So in one blow, they lauded Tyrion and Jon, who murdered her, as great lovers of Dany, and justified Jaime throwing his life away on someone evil as love, too.

Littlefinger used the word love unchallenged, too. Then his victim, Sansa, who they robbed of a love story of her own, thanked him for sex trafficking her.

They even ruined the word love. To quote Inigo Montoya, "You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means."

(Oh and they didn't even let Dany remember Drogo... their relationship was just forgotten, along with the story significance of the night lands.)

There is no sign that Jon loved her, after Episode 1, other than his saying " I love you" as he ran her through.

As you put it, "Nothing says " I love you" like a knife through the heart."  It's probably 100 years or so, since stabbing one's lover to death was seen as romantic.

In the final book, I could easily see Tyrion turning against her due to sexual jealousy.

[Le Cygne]

8 hours ago, SeanF said:

There is no sign that Jon loved her, after Episode 1, other than his saying " I love you" as he ran her through.

As you put it, "Nothing says " I love you" like a knife through the heart."  It's probably 100 years or so, since stabbing one's lover to death was seen as romantic.

In the final book, I could easily see Tyrion turning against her due to sexual jealousy.

Yeah, I can see that, too. Books he gets extremely bitter when pretty women reject him, and we know he's murdered one already.

"There is no sign of" many things until they tell you. And what they did often changes, or why they did it, or even what they did at all.

As for stabbing, all I can think of is Juliet stabbing herself because Romeo is dead. And that was just tragic, he wouldn't have wanted her to do that.

[SeanF]

7 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Yeah, I can see that, too. Books he gets extremely bitter when pretty women reject him, and we know he's murdered one already.

"There is no sign of" many things until they tell you. And what they did often changes, or why they did it, or even what they did at all.

A jealous Tyrion running a knife through Dany's heart is something I would find far more believable than Jon Snow doing it.

Given the way that D & D seemed to get a kick out of sniping at Kit Harrington, over his height and penis length, I wouldn't be surprised if this was another of their "jokes".

[Le Cygne]

38 minutes ago, SeanF said:

A jealous Tyrion running a knife through Dany's heart is something I would find far more believable than Jon Snow doing it.

Given the way that D & D seemed to get a kick out of sniping at Kit Harrington, over his height and penis length, I wouldn't be surprised if this was another of their "jokes".

In terms of story and how the character is viewed and views himself, kinslaying is repeatedly stated as a grave sin. There's no future for Jon as a kinslayer, emotionally or otherwise.

Tyrion already is a kinslayer, and he also murdered a woman who rejected him in cold blood. So if he kills a woman who rejects him again, he's not going to be arranging chairs in the end.

The show handwaves for their desired outcome (everyone who could challenge their boy Tyrion in any way is conveniently eliminated, either a horrible death or exiled with his doggie).

[SeanF]

14 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

In terms of story and how the character is viewed and views himself, kinslaying is repeatedly stated as a grave sin. There's no future for Jon as a kinslayer, emotionally or otherwise.

Tyrion already is a kinslayer, and he also murdered a woman who rejected him in cold blood. So if he kills a woman who rejects him again, he's not going to be arranging chairs in the end.

The show handwaves for their desired outcome (everyone who could challenge their boy Tyrion in any way is conveniently eliminated, either a horrible death or exiled with his doggie).

In Seasons 1 to 4 Tyrion roughly followed Tyrion in the books (still somewhat whitewashed).  After that, he simply becomes a completely different character. sharing the same name as, but bearing no relation to, his book counterpart.

[Le Cygne]

48 minutes ago, SeanF said:

In Seasons 1 to 4 Tyrion roughly followed Tyrion in the books (still somewhat whitewashed).  After that, he simply becomes a completely different character. sharing the same name as, but bearing no relation to, his book counterpart.

They whitewashed him a lot before, too. They simply could not stand that Sansa rejected their boy, so they made him practically perfect in every way, and they made her prop him up.

Also they couldn't stand that Shae rejected their boy, too. She became a whore with a heart of gold who adored their boy... and then the poor boy just had to murder her in self-defense.

[SeanF]

5 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

They whitewashed him a lot before, too. They simply could not stand that Sansa rejected their boy, so they made him practically perfect in every way, and they made her prop him up.

Also they couldn't stand that Shae rejected their boy, too. She became a whore with a heart of gold who adored their boy... and then the poor boy just had to murder her in self-defense.

Shae is not a nice person in the books.  But, she was certainly the victim of murder at Tyrion's hands.  And, prior to that, Tyrion did abuse her.

But, you're right about the whitewashing in the show.  Shae, for all her virtues, just wasn't worthy of him in the end, and he had to kill her after she turned on him.

When you transform a major character completely from their book portrayal, you have to transform other characters who interact with them.  So, Daenerys had to become the villain that Tyrion will likely be in the last two books.

[Le Cygne]

21 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Shae is not a nice person in the books.  But, she was certainly the victim of murder at Tyrion's hands.  And, prior to that, Tyrion did abuse her.

But, you're right about the whitewashing in the show.  Shae, for all her virtues, just wasn't worthy of him in the end, and he had to kill her after she turned on him.

When you transform a major character completely from their book portrayal, you have to transform other characters who interact with them.  So, Daenerys had to become the villain that Tyrion will likely be in the last two books.

Yeah, butterflies. I remember GRRM saying how different Jaime and Cersei's relationship was on the show, too. That's going to play out differently in the books, too.