Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[SeanF]

7 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

The fantasy thing is bogus, lots of people loved Lord of the Rings. Lots of people love Stranger Things. And so on. What they did was make the story LESS special by removing the meaning.

The let the actors write the show thing is not only lazy on the part of the showrunners, it's an abdication of their responsibilities, and leads to the complete nonsense that the show became.

Actors are not screenwriters. So the result was a series of disconnected skits. Empty emoting. The actors either said they were confused by motivation or made up nonsense that changed constantly.

Also interesting - this means the actors had, however indirectly, a role in how the characters ended up. Benioff/Weiss say the actors defined the characters and the story, thus they can share the blame.

Do you know, I think any of us could have written better plots for Seasons 7 and 8.

[Le Cygne]

What on earth?

They are expressing regret about putting the baby on the block of ice and him screaming. The mother was not happy bc Dan just kept talking about a close-up of the baby’s penis.

Yep:

Dan: “it was like a ten year drunk party.”

Lolololololol as if:

Sansa and Arya killing LF. They mapped it out so you didn’t know what was going to happen.

This is the essence of privilege (and they flunked):

Dan is saying that #GameofThrones was basically an expensive film school for he and Dave.

This, too (the show is their own personal big expensive toy, who cares about anyone else?):

Dan doesn’t see the value of considering other people’s reactions.

[Le Cygne]

31 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Do you know, I think any of us could have written better plots for Seasons 7 and 8.

Imagine if people who actually had maturity and sensitivity and talent and experience helmed the show instead of them.

It could have been more than just a water cooler show, more than a medieval Kardashians with Romulan costumes.

[SeanF]

8 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

What on earth?

They are expressing regret about putting the baby on the block of ice and him screaming. The mother was not happy bc Dan just kept talking about a close-up of the baby’s penis. *They are very granular in details of shots, admitting losing sight of the big picture.

Yep:

Dan: “it was like a ten year drunk party.”

Lolololololol as if:

Sansa and Arya killing LF. They mapped it out so you didn’t know what was going to happen.

Yes, it was.

How long before one of them gives an answer:-

"We thought the books were crap and skim-read them, but saw the chance to make a load of money."

[Zorral]

On 10/26/2019 at 10:37 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

Since this thread is about the "behind the scenes" stuff, I wanted to share this here.

So, Dave and Dan spoke at a writers festival recently (today depending on when you are reading this). A fan on Twitter live tweeted the talk with the showrunners.

Gems. Absolute gems in this discussion. One of my faves right here:

• Dan wanted to remove as many fantasy elements as possible bc “we didn’t just want to appeal to that type of fan.” They wanted to expand the fan base to people beyond the fantasy fan base to “mothers, NFL players”...

So, so many interesting tidbits here, so I am giving you a link to check them out for yourselves... thread link here.

A few more good ones:

• The moderator is asking them about their comments acknowledging they didn’t understand the characters, and the extra minutes helped them understand the characters better.
• Dan is saying that he let the actors redefined the roles, esp Maisie and they began writing for the actors, it is like the actor moved into the “house” and redecorated. He said he learned about the characters from the actors.

What are some of your faves from this talk?

More extensive coverage than twits, is here:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/10/game-of-thrones-david-benioff-d-b-weiss-panel

 

[SeanF]

Tyrion:   "There's nothing that can defeat a good story."

D & D:   "Hold my beer."

[Narsil4]

I'm most annoyed that it became impossible to tell what was actually important and what wasn't. 

Like should the White Walkers be immune to Drogon's Black Flame or is that just 2D warping things.. 
Or should Bran be seen as manipulating the outcome or is that just 2D writing bad dialogue.. 
Was Greyworm in two places at once or was that just more disjointed scenes..
Did Drogon or someone controlling him, purposefully destroy the Throne or was that just another brain dead scene.

[Darryk]

3 hours ago, Zorral said:

More extensive coverage than twits, is here:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/10/game-of-thrones-david-benioff-d-b-weiss-panel

 

In answer to the article's question of "why did they pick this moment to admit they had no idea what they were doing?", I'm wondering if maybe it's because they didn't expect the panel to go public. I mean, if not for one quick-thinking tweeter, would this Q&A have ever seen light of day?

[Nowy Tends]

49 minutes ago, Darryk said:

In answer to the article's question of "why did they pick this moment to admit they had no idea what they were doing?", I'm wondering if maybe it's because they didn't expect the panel to go public. I mean, if not for one quick-thinking tweeter, would this Q&A have ever seen light of day?

I don't have an educated answer to this question, but again: WHY DID GRRM SELL THE RIGHTS OF HIS CHEF D'ŒUVRE TO THESE TWO STUPID RICH KIDS?

[Tha Shiznit]

I wonder what David and Dan thought of George's ''the human heart in with conflict with itself'' if the scope of it was too big, and only interested in have series where they try to have scenes depicting and showing about power. Why did they want to adapt, A Song of Ice and Fire? It's all about the human heart in with conflict with itself (not saying it isn't just about power). It's funny now that I mention it, I remember D&D and George were ask in words to describe GOT in one of the behind the scenes or promos of the early seasons I forget which one, it may be season 3 or 4. David's answers were it as simply about power, while George's was about how he wanted a faithful adaptation A song of Ice and Fire and it was simply about the human heart in with conflict with itself. Can anyone find the video in which I'm talking about, it might be one on HBO's youtube channel? 

It kinda makes me wonder what they two had said to George when they pitched Asoiaf tv series to him. To mine recollection, it seems Martin did want faithful adapting with someone understanding the themes of the story.

[Le Cygne]

Another article (I love the titles of the articles, this one is "‘Game Of Thrones’ Showrunners David Benioff And D.B. Weiss Confirmed The Worst Suspicions Of The Fanbase"):

The Faceless Men, the Lord of Light, the Night King; all magical elements of the story that were never resolved, despite clearly being vital to the story. Hence, “the Prince that was promised” never showed up, and Beric Dondarrion’s grand destiny was teased, but never delivered. 

Benioff and Weiss were elevated to success by HBO’s polished infrastructure, the architecture of George R.R. Martin’s books, and the immense talent of every individual that surrounded them, particularly the actors.

They were exposed only when they ran out of material, and had to finish the story themselves. Amusingly, the two never went online to read criticisms of the show from fans, who clearly understood the books better than they did.

It seems that the Game of Thrones writer’s room was a “safe space,” shielded from criticism and outsider perspective. In a way, it’s a relief to finally understand why the show went in such a bizarre direction; there was no one there to tell Benioff and Weiss that their ideas were nonsensical. 

Nobody was there to tell them to stop inserting random rape scenes for shock value, or that Euron Greyjoy was dreadful, or that the Great Houses of Westeros finally putting aside their differences and crowning a wheelchair-bound shaman as king was immensely, indescribably stupid. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2019/10/28/game-of-thrones-showrunners-david-benioff-and-db-weiss-confirmed-the-worst-suspicions-of-the-fanbase/

[Le Cygne]

Another (titled "The Game of Thrones Creators Finally Admit They Truly Didn't Know What They Were Doing"):

Game of Thrones creators David Benioff and D.B. Weiss told reporters before the series' finale that they intended to spend the final moments of the show that had occupied a decade of their lives “very drunk and far away from the internet." And they’ve pretty much kept their heads down since, pulling out of a Thrones panel at San Diego Comic-Con and generally keeping a pretty low profile in the wake of final season that was so controversial that it’s found more than 1.75 million fans signing a petition to remake the season with “competent writers.”

But the duo faced fans at an Austin Film Festival panel Saturday. And judging by reports from attendees, it did not go well... Weiss reportedly said that he and Benioff, who were pretty much unknowns before Thrones, had such little experience that showrunning the multi-million dollar series was their film school...

Benioff and Weiss also apparently admitted that they didn’t understand the characters as little as two months before the pilot aired. “In every scene, we were three lines away from ’Monty Python and the Holy Grail,” Weiss joked, according to the Austin American Statesman...

In perhaps their most tone-deaf remarks of all, the writers reportedly said they stripped the source material of some of its most overtly fantastical elements (Lady Stoneheart, anyone?) because they "didn’t just want to appeal to that type of fan.” They wanted to attract an audience broader than the fantasy fans, in order to include “mothers” and “NFL players”—as if members of those demographics can’t like pure fantasy.

But Benioff and Weiss have moved on from the Thrones world. They’re apparently working on at least one Star Wars film, and have signed a $250 million dollar deal with Netflix. So this panel must have been super reassuring for Disney and the streaming site.

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/a29608442/benioff-weiss-game-of-thrones-showrunners-writers-panel-austin-film-festival/

[kissdbyfire]

9 minutes ago, Tha Shiznit said:

To mine recollection, it seems Martin did want faithful adapting with someone understanding the themes of the story.

I don’t think I’ve seen the video you’re talking about...

As to understanding the themes of the story, as David Benioff said, “themes are for eight-grade book reports”, so maybe that’s why they didn’t even try to get into that. 

[Many-Faced Votary]

On 10/27/2019 at 6:15 AM, divica said:

I don t know how the series will affect his book sales.

With the publicity that the series and books will have similar endings a lot of people lost interest in the books either because they didn t like where the story went or because they don t want to continue involved with a story that likely won t get finished.

On the other hand there are people that turned to the books in the hope of a better story. 

If Mr. Martin can release The Winds of Winter within the next two or so years, he should be able to capitalize upon renewed interest in the series to his benefit, even if there will be people who have lost faith either in his ability or desire to complete it or in his intended ending.

Having said that, I daresay the first part of the former group you cite (those who do not appreciate where the story is going) likely would not have appreciated the book series for what it is regardless. This is simply because such people might not realize the extent to which A Song of Ice and Fire differs from Game of Thrones: it is much better-written, naturally, but there are many inherent distinctions that will alter and enhance the story in important ways. The books possess a far greater scope, including characters and motivations that do not exist or are improperly used in the show, which can and will greatly change character arcs and plot points; retain extreme literary merit, including but not limited to thematic cohesion and symbolic significance; involve complex and realistic characters who act and react according to their surroundings and how they themselves have developed; will have an ultimate message of hope that lies in stark contrast to the unerring acedia and nihilism the show demonstrates; and are actually developed organically and connected satisfactorily.

Perhaps certain broad strokes will ultimately remain very similar, but the journey matters at least as much as the destination, and there is far more to look forward to besides. It is past time to stop conflating the books with the show,  particularly as far as the characters are concerned.

[The Dragon Demands]

This isn't going away, the Austin Film Festival panel is going viral in the news.  Mainstream news.  Vanity Fair, as linked above.

Forbes had an amazing, scathing article.  Gave Benioff and Weiss quite a shellacking:  

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2019/10/28/game-of-thrones-showrunners-david-benioff-and-db-weiss-confirmed-the-worst-suspicions-of-the-fanbase/

It's a must-read.

 

Yeah....we've seen this before.  I don't think Benioff & Weiss can comprehend that ANY public appearance they make will be reported on.  Throughout the world via the internet.  They live in a bubble.  So we've seen this before....when they do seemingly "local" conventions or interviews....they let their guard down and say truly embarrassing things.  Like that PBS Idaho panel back in late 2016. They're idiots who are hungry for praise, and somehow think a smaller venue is "safe".  

[The Dragon Demands]

yeah

[Nowy Tends]

18 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

...wow, so much activity over this the past two days, after a long furlough.....

I'm pleased to see that recent events show that your analyses were accurate since the beginning of the disaster… Je vous tire mon chapeau, Monsieur!

[SeanF]

And the reputation of the last two seasons (perhaps the whole thing) heads further down the plug hole.

[Tha Shiznit]

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I don’t think I’ve seen the video you’re talking about...

As to understanding the themes of the story, as David Benioff said, “themes are for eight-grade book reports”, so maybe that’s why they didn’t even try to get into that. 

Yeah, I know it is hard to find, but in the video, Benioff says that if he were to describe what Games of Thrones is about, "it's a show about power" or something like that I'm paraphrasing here. But it is a glimpse that even in the very beginning David wanted a series to be about scenes power, people making power plays and, etc. Though David has said that he finds themes for eighth-grade book reports, even a tv show about that may have been too much for him write about. Maybe Dragon Demands can find it, I'm sure it is an HBO behind the scenes for one of the first three seasons.

[kissdbyfire]

2 minutes ago, Tha Shiznit said:

Yeah, I know it is hard to find, but in the video, Benioff says that if he were to describe what Games of Thrones is about, "it's a show about power" or something like that I'm paraphrasing here. But it is a glimpse that even in the very beginning David wanted a series to be about scenes power, people making power plays and, etc. Though David has said that he finds themes for eighth-grade book reports, even a tv show about that may have been too much for him write about. Maybe Dragon Demands can find it, I'm sure it is an HBO behind the scenes for one of the first three seasons.

I do remember an interview - I think it was an interview - where either Benioff or Weiss said something about GoT being The Sopranos meets Middle Earth...