Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[The Dragon Demands]

What if they don’t bother to write back?

[Ran]

3 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

What if they don’t bother to write back?

Cross that bridge when you come to it. You can follow up after a few days and ask if they received the message. There's no time-sensitivity to your situation, so just play it carefully.

[The Dragon Demands]

yeah

[SeanF]

What interests me is that eight months after it ended, the reputation of the Show continues to sink.  Almost everyone now realises that this was a case of the Emperor's new clothes.  

And I do feel sorry for the actors who gave so much of their lives to this show.  But, I feel less sorry for those of them who agree to come out and defend a show which they must know in their hearts had run off the rails.  

This is the first page of Rotten Tomatoes user reviews (it's entirely representative of the rest).  I think William S was being ironic.

• Julian M
   

  The plot is so horrible that not even the awesome soundtrack and visual effects can save this season.

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• Oliver G
  3d ago

  worst final season of anything ever. if GRRM doesn't complete his books series, the TV show will be the only ending his story has and that would be atrocious. he has to finish the books to fix this crap.

  Flag this review
• Brea L
  3d ago

  I hope this season is remade it horrible, please remake!

  Flag this review
• Gabe G
  4d ago

  This season is an insult. It completely invalidates the entire series. I felt like I wasted the last 10 years of my life watching this show.

  Flag this review
•  
  4d ago

  Literally unwatchable. The great actors and videography carried the season on their backs but the plot is absolutely horrible.

  Flag this review
• Brook H
  4d ago

  So many amazing potential character arcs and storylines going into season 8 and nothing. The most disappointing final season of a show.

  Flag this review
• Fernando M
  6d ago

  There is no definition, subject, adjective, among others, to describe the titanic disappointment.

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• william s
  Jan 22, 2020

  best, it was really good, i enjoyed it. please give us no2 etc asap. as I WANT MORE !!!!

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• John D
  Jan 21, 2020

  For me season 8 wins the nomination of the worst season ever in the history of otherwise great TV shows. Unfortunately this is also the last season, so nothing can ever make it up for it. 

[Le Cygne]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

What interests me is that eight months after it ended, the reputation of the Show continues to sink.  Almost everyone now realises that this was a case of the Emperor's new clothes.  

And I do feel sorry for the actors who gave so much of their lives to this show.  But, I feel less sorry for those of them who agree to come out and defend a show which they must know in their hearts had run off the rails.  

This is the first page of Rotten Tomatoes user reviews (it's entirely representative of the rest).  I think William S was being ironic.

Yeah, the show gets worse the more you think about it. And actors should just graciously let the audience have their say, the show was supposed to be for the audience, who foot the bill.

Now you got me reading lots of reviews, which reminds me Better Call Saul is coming up in a few weeks, and I'm so excited to see it bump up against Breaking Bad. Back to this trash, though...

Reviews kept mentioning the final season destroyed all past seasons. You see that sentiment a lot. So they not only failed, they wiped out everything. We finally found out what they do well, fail spectacularly.

It completely invalidates the entire series

the previous seven seasons of Game of Thrones are ruined forever

I don't even enjoy rewatching previous seasons anymore

So bad it destroyed the previous seasons

The season 8 rottened the whole series

I can't even re-watch the other seasons because of it

Really ruined the series that I will never rewatch again

[SeanF]

16 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Yeah, the show gets worse the more you think about it. And actors should just graciously let the audience have their say, the show was supposed to be for the audience, who foot the bill.

Now you got me reading lots of reviews, which reminds me Better Call Saul is coming up in a few weeks, and I'm so excited to see it bump up against Breaking Bad. Back to this trash, though...

Reviews kept mentioning the final season destroyed all past seasons. You see that sentiment a lot. So they not only failed, they wiped out everything. We finally found out what they do well, fail spectacularly.

It completely invalidates the entire series

the previous seven seasons of Game of Thrones are ruined forever

I don't even enjoy rewatching previous seasons anymore

So bad it destroyed the previous seasons

The season 8 rottened the whole series

I can't even re-watch the other seasons because of it

Really ruined the series that I will never rewatch again

I wonder if D & D will ever produce anything for Netflix in the end.

[Prince of the North]

18 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Yeah, the show gets worse the more you think about it. And actors should just graciously let the audience have their say, the show was supposed to be for the audience, who foot the bill.

Now you got me reading lots of reviews, which reminds me Better Call Saul is coming up in a few weeks, and I'm so excited to see it bump up against Breaking Bad. Back to this trash, though...

Reviews kept mentioning the final season destroyed all past seasons. You see that sentiment a lot. So they not only failed, they wiped out everything. We finally found out what they do well, fail spectacularly.

It completely invalidates the entire series

the previous seven seasons of Game of Thrones are ruined forever

I don't even enjoy rewatching previous seasons anymore

So bad it destroyed the previous seasons

The season 8 rottened the whole series

I can't even re-watch the other seasons because of it

Really ruined the series that I will never rewatch again

Yep!  Knowing where it all ends up makes it so the earlier seasons/eps can never be viewed the same way again

1 minute ago, SeanF said:

I wonder if D & D will ever produce anything for Netflix in the end.

Me, too!  I mean, it could just be my own biases at play but it seems to me that people in the industry may be distancing themselves as fast as possible.

[Le Cygne]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

I wonder if D & D will ever produce anything for Netflix in the end.

I wonder if Netflix will actually step in and quash their nastiness. Especially their nastiness about women. Or girls, as they like to call them.

In the end she's just a girl who needs a man, since all she can do is stare out a window. But another girl doesn't get to have a man because wouldn't it be awesome to take away her story and redo I Spit On Your Grave, then have her thank the rapist? And let's make yet another girl go mad because some man won't do her, and then have him do a "look what you made me do" take when he kills her! And have another girl honor the asshole who left her to go screw his sister, since he did her a favor and "devirginized" her. And wouldn't it be great if girls put themselves down for being girls? And said all men need is not good girls but a bad pussy. And after all, it's all about men, so lots of nude girls. And wouldn't it be great to end with two assholes joking about traumatized war torn girls pretending to like having sex with them so they won't starve? Yeah, let's do all that.

None of the good ole boys stopped them at HBO. I doubt they will at Netflix, either.

[Corvinus85]

2 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Yeah, the show gets worse the more you think about it. And actors should just graciously let the audience have their say, the show was supposed to be for the audience, who foot the bill.

Now you got me reading lots of reviews, which reminds me Better Call Saul is coming up in a few weeks, and I'm so excited to see it bump up against Breaking Bad. Back to this trash, though...

Reviews kept mentioning the final season destroyed all past seasons. You see that sentiment a lot. So they not only failed, they wiped out everything. We finally found out what they do well, fail spectacularly.

It completely invalidates the entire series

the previous seven seasons of Game of Thrones are ruined forever

I don't even enjoy rewatching previous seasons anymore

So bad it destroyed the previous seasons

The season 8 rottened the whole series

I can't even re-watch the other seasons because of it

Really ruined the series that I will never rewatch again

I'd say that the final season spilled over the rot that was there from the start, and building up. People trying to rewatch may notice bad stuff that they should have noticed from that start, or no longer brush off stuff that should have worried them earlier.

I hadn't been able to re-watch the show long before season 8 was released.

Contrary to this, I still occasionally re-watch the first 3 seasons of Battlestar Galactica, despite the show going off the rails in the 4th season.

[The Dragon Demands]

yeah

[Corvinus85]

1 hour ago, The Dragon Demands said:

BSG season 3 was the worst.  Season 4 was bad, but at least internally consistent - albeit a hard retcon that was awful.   Season 3 was just making it up one week to the next.

more “academic” fans like us were freaking out at problems in season 3 that were more “clear warning signs” - they predictably played out awfully in season 4, and mainstream audiences acted genuinely surprised

True, but it started strongly, and outside of the Cylon mystery/prophecy stuff it was still good, imo. To be honest, I don't hate season 4, nowhere near like I hate GoT season 8.

[divica]

12 hours ago, Corvinus said:

I'd say that the final season spilled over the rot that was there from the start, and building up. People trying to rewatch may notice bad stuff that they should have noticed from that start, or no longer brush off stuff that should have worried them earlier.

I hadn't been able to re-watch the show long before season 8 was released.

Contrary to this, I still occasionally re-watch the first 3 seasons of Battlestar Galactica, despite the show going off the rails in the 4th season.

The problem isn t just that season 8 is very bad. Is how it screws up the history of previous seasons. 

Mel's whole behavior with Stannis after seeing Arya would kill the NK makes no sense. Bran's story makes no sense... What was the point of him becoming the 3er? Why ressurect jon? The NK only crossed the wall because he got a dragon and neither dragons or targs were useful to kill him... What was the point of the ptwp appearing in several seasons? What was the point of the faceless men? Arya changing faces was completly useless.. 

 

And this is just what I remember at the moment. Season 8 destroys a lot of the previous seasons... The season can make the entire series trash. That is a great feat

[SeanF]

13 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

I wonder if Netflix will actually step in and quash their nastiness. Especially their nastiness about women. Or girls, as they like to call them.

In the end she's just a girl who needs a man, since all she can do is stare out a window. But another girl doesn't get to have a man because wouldn't it be awesome to take away her story and redo I Spit On Your Grave, then have her thank the rapist? And let's make yet another girl go mad because some man won't do her, and then have him do a "look what you made me do" take when he kills her! And have another girl honor the asshole who left her to go screw his sister, since he did her a favor and "devirginized" her. And wouldn't it be great if girls put themselves down for being girls? And said all men need is not good girls but a bad pussy. And after all, it's all about men, so lots of nude girls. And wouldn't it be great to end with two assholes joking about traumatized war torn girls pretending to like having sex with them so they won't starve? Yeah, let's do all that.

None of the good ole boys stopped them at HBO. I doubt they will at Netflix, either.

D & D had an unerring ability to choose the wrong trope for the story they were trying to tell.  So, we got Tyrion's version of Niemoller's "first they came" prose poem (because of course, everyone equates dead slave dealers and rapists to victims of the Holocaust);  prior to that you had Daenerys' Triumph of the Will rally (because Hitler started off freeing slaves before he went bad);  then finally Jon stabs Dany through the heart, after saying "I love you" (because domestic violence is so cute and romantic).

[Le Cygne]

2 hours ago, SeanF said:

D & D had an unerring ability to choose the wrong trope for the story they were trying to tell.  So, we got Tyrion's version of Niemoller's "first they came" prose poem (because of course, everyone equates dead slave dealers and rapists to victims of the Holocaust);  prior to that you had Daenerys' Triumph of the Will rally (because Hitler started off freeing slaves before he went bad);  then finally Jon stabs Dany through the heart, after saying "I love you" (because domestic violence is so cute and romantic).

Yeah, it's like they fell asleep during the 8th grade. They surely got F's on their book reports, since they are so bitter about them and all.

[Le Cygne]

Also it was always the wrong person to say and do things. This is so basic, match this to that, that's a skill they teach little kids on Sesame Street.

Tyrion, who murdered the prostitute he kidnapped and betrayed, and paid no price whatsoever, urges Jon to murder a woman like he did. In the end, prostitutes are just a joke, so whatever. And they all but put a halo on his head.

Jon's whole story, he wanted to belong, to know his true identity, and he finally finds out and then kills his newly found and closest relative. He'd have killed himself before becoming a kinslayer. Certainly not frolic with his dog.

Arya and Sandor as fake buddies was always a crock, and when it was joke meme time, she didn't give a shit enough to tell him not to throw his life away, and he didn't give a shit enough to protect her and get her out of hell.

Sansa was just an interchangeable female unit to them, thanks for the rape, where's my tiara. She was like Ruby Tuesday, changing with every new day. Brienne lost her own story, too, she was just there to honor some asshole.

Speaking of the asshole, in their own show, Jaime said he cared about the people of Kings Landing, but in the end, he didn't give a shit. And Cersei was turned off by his missing hand, but in the end, just a girl who needed a man.

Grey Worm suddenly was like, whatever, I'm out of here. Got a bus to catch. Ditto for the Dothraki. When their entire mission was devotion to Dany and they had her murderer in their hands, they'd never have just let him go.

Poor Drogon, suddenly he's like, whatever, bye. Which is a shame because the dragons were the only characters I liked by the end, and they just had to ruin them, too.

Adding this, because how could I forget, Arya Ninja Turtle killing the Night King out of nowhere. When all along it had been a struggle between him and Jon. One of these things is not like the others.

[Le Cygne]

16 hours ago, Corvinus said:

I'd say that the final season spilled over the rot that was there from the start, and building up. People trying to rewatch may notice bad stuff that they should have noticed from that start, or no longer brush off stuff that should have worried them earlier.

I hadn't been able to re-watch the show long before season 8 was released.

Contrary to this, I still occasionally re-watch the first 3 seasons of Battlestar Galactica, despite the show going off the rails in the 4th season.

True. Other shows, you can stop watching at a certain point, and still enjoy them. Or even just watch the final season, when it's done well, and enjoy that.

I laughed at the red wedding because of the absurdity that Talisa (who was already a joke in the first place) would be there. I couldn't take it seriously.

I think readers were always up for things going differently, but we knew the bad writing was going to bite them in the butt. The show wasn't true to itself.

There's a certain magic to a good story, you have to believe, or it's just a bunch of people mumbling and moving around, no matter how many bells and whistles.

[SeanF]

2 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Also it was always the wrong person to say and do things. This is so basic, match this to that, that's a skill they teach little kids on Sesame Street.

Tyrion, who murdered the prostitute he kidnapped and betrayed, and paid no price whatsoever, urges Jon to murder a woman like he did. In the end, prostitutes are just a joke, so whatever. And they all but put a halo on his head.

Jon's whole story, he wanted to belong, to know his true identity, and he finally finds out and then kills his newly found and closest relative. He'd have killed himself before becoming a kinslayer. Certainly not frolic with his dog.

The fake buddy pairing of Arya and Sandor was bullshit, when they decided to throw Sandor away on a joke meme, she didn't say don't throw your life away (a stranger would said that), and he didn't protect her to get her out of there.

Sansa was just an interchangeable female unit to them, thanks for the rape, where's my tiara. She was like Ruby Tuesday, changing with every new day. Brienne lost her own story, too, she was just there to honor some asshole.

Speaking of the asshole, in their own show, Jaime said he cared about the people of Kings Landing, but in the end, he didn't give a shit. And Cersei was turned off by his missing hand, but in the end, just a girl who needed a man.

Grey Worm suddenly was like, whatever, I'm out of here. Got a bus to catch. Ditto for the Dothraki. When their entire mission was devotion to Dany and they had her murderer in their hands, they'd never have just let him go.

Poor Drogon, suddenly he's like, whatever, bye. Which is a shame because the dragons were the only characters I liked by the end, and they just had to ruin them, too.

If Jon were actually persuaded to kill his closest relative, I expect he would kill himself afterwards.  I doubt if it is something he could live with.

[Cas Stark]

I do agree w/what others have said that GOT's last season did effectively gut huge portions of it's previous years, and I don't offhand know of any other show where the final season was so bat that it rendered its major plotlines moot.  

My guess on Netflix is they will never 2/3 of that $200M.  They will probably do one show, which will fail, as they will not have the luxury of leaning on GRRRM detailed books, so unless they do another adaptation, it is impossible they will succeed.  It is also highly doubtful that Netflix will allow the craziness that HBO permitted because they had a critical and commercial hit.

PS...One of the ways that the show ultimately lost its way is that violence stopped having consequences for anyone.  Cersei killed the queen, the pope and many nobles, nothing happened; Sansa sadistically fed a man to his dogs and was empowered and happy about it, , and most grievous, Jon Snow is in exactly the same frame of mind after killing his lover, his queen and his aunt as he was before...... 

 

[Many-Faced Votary]

19 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Poor Drogon, suddenly he's like, whatever, bye. Which is a shame because the dragons were the only characters I liked by the end, and they just had to ruin them, too. 

I would like to offer my own appreciation of and condolences for the character assassination the dragons and the direwolves, not that they had any real characterization or even individuality on the show. They even ruined Drogon's potential as a symbol against the evils of feudalism, since the script for the series finale reveals he was simply triggered by the blades on the Iron Throne. Granted, this is unsurprising, considering how the corrupt and solipsist oligarchy that was formed to the great social detriment of Westeros at the end of the show was unironically glorified.

 

I attempted to think of any human character from Seasons 4 through 8 who could actually be considered both believable and consistently sympathetic. All I can come up with is Cersei before she randomly "chose violence" and suddenly transformed into a deranged mass-murdering hedonist (and is thus ultimately neither consistent nor sympathetic, but I'll let it stand as a freebie), as well as Hizdahr zo Loraq, who for some reason -- accidentally, no doubt, particularly in light of how she is demonized -- is portrayed very similarly to Sansa in A Clash of Kings and A Storm of Swords, and is consequently very nuanced and captivating.

It's quite telling that the two characters D&D were successful in whitewashing were the poster child of self-delusion and internalized misogyny, and the grasping and probably scheming slaver with few redeeming qualities, respectively. In Hizdahr's case, it was likely not by intent, given how the narrative frames him in a poor light despite virtually everything about him on the show being sympathetic; but the thought process that led to such a peculiar adaptation, and the inability to recognize this for what it was, is very concerning indeed. *

Characters aside from the aforementioned two were whitewashed as well, but nowhere near as successfully, although I daresay the vast majority were blackwashed. D&D did turn Tyrion into someone who fits every single criterion of a Mary Sue, but in so doing, they stripped him of any brain cells he might have possessed and also mistakenly retroactively blackwashed him -- such as his reason for killing Tywin.

 

Almost everyone else is either unbelievable and unbelievably unlikable, or becomes such soon enough, most often due to their sheer inability to not be driven by revenge or to not fetishize violence; and the remaining characters can't be considered proper characters. The most prevalent reason for both of these phenomena is that none of the characters acted like real human beings.

 

* As I am already ranting and this is tangentially related, I would like to address one of my pet peeves here. By no means do I intend to insinuate that any show character bore any resemblance whatsoever to their book respective counterparts in the latter half of the show, and the vast majority were simplified and otherwise made less compelling in the former half too. Yet Daenerys is among those who fared worst from the adaptational decisions, especially if we only consider primary and secondary characters in the books. (Poor, sweet Ellaria Sand...) Season 1 did a passable job for the most part, but beyond that, the creature on the show was Dany for all of two scenes in Astapor in Season 3. She was otherwise a completely unrealistic, infantilized, unlikable, and anachronistic symbol of faux-empowerment, and it confounds and repulses me that such an inherently misogynistic character could be considered "feminist" by any stretch of the imagination. That people fail to recognize how blackwashed this character was from the start astounds me -- and there are those who inversely believe she was whitewashed!

[SeanF]

3 hours ago, Many-Faced Votary said:

 

* As I am already ranting and this is tangentially related, I would like to address one of my pet peeves here. By no means do I intend to insinuate that any show character bore any resemblance whatsoever to their book respective counterparts in the latter half of the show, and the vast majority were simplified and otherwise made less compelling in the former half too. Yet Daenerys is among those who fared worst from the adaptational decisions, especially if we only consider primary and secondary characters in the books. (Poor, sweet Ellaria Sand...) Season 1 did a passable job for the most part, but beyond that, the creature on the show was Dany for all of two scenes in Astapor in Season 3. She was otherwise a completely unrealistic, infantilized, unlikable, and anachronistic symbol of faux-empowerment, and it confounds and repulses me that such an inherently misogynistic character could be considered "feminist" by any stretch of the imagination. That people fail to recognize how blackwashed this character was from the start astounds me -- and there are those who inversely believe she was whitewashed!

The show certainly did a good job of ridding Daenerys' character of most of the warmth, humour, compassion, and self-criticism which are features of her book counterpart.  Like you, I'm a bit mystified by people who claim the show "whitewashed" her. 

The portrayal of Ellaria Sand (and Stannis) is simply mystifying.  Tyrion's terrible mischaracterisation is (as you imply) the result of D & D making him their self-insert.  No one really understands what they were doing with Jaime and Sandra.