Jump to content

Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!


The Fattest Leech

Recommended Posts

14 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I agree.  And here is where not having the rest of the books really hurt them, because obviously they need things SPELLED OUT, in black and white to even have a hope of capturing the surface of the characterization or theme. 

Look no further than Arya, where they loved both the character and the actress and yet, they seemed to not understand her story at all, and anyone who says that her killing the NK was in line with her story is totally full of s***, but that aside, they didn't seem to get any of her actual drives and values, which is why the ending felt so 'off'...the girl who has wanted to get back to her family, have a family, create a family unit since the the very beginning..finally is reunited with her family which is victorious,  and she fucks off in a ship for no stated reason.  That isn't to say her ending may not be the same in the books that will never be written, but the books will show and explain how she would come to have felt so alienated that she would leave Westeros for parts unknown, the showrunners have no understanding or ability to create that connective tissue in the story.  And again , the reason the early seasons were better is because those explanations and that connective tissue was embedded within the story, so it was there even when they didn't know it, even when they were simply shooting 'what happened' the themes and characterization would still come through.  Once they went off GRRM script, there was nothing to save them from themselves: prurient, exploitative hacks who would not recognize a theme if it was tattood on someones head.

End Rant.

It's pretty bewildering that they didn't want Jon to kill the Night King, since they themselves were building towards it; remember, one of their episodes,"Hardhome" which doesn't have any counterpart in the books, has them building towards Jon vs. the Night King.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

It's pretty bewildering that they didn't want Jon to kill the Night King, since they themselves were building towards it; remember, one of their episodes,"Hardhome" which doesn't have any counterpart in the books, has them building towards Jon vs. the Night King.

That's because they didn't understand the story or care about it.  So, instead of as you say, building on the story they had been telling, which was clearly pitting Jon against the NK, which would have presumably made some use of his Targ blood or status as King, they choose OMG TWIST, and pulled Arya doing it out of their hack hat....which not only ruined his story, but rendered Dany, her dragons and the armies all superfluous.  It was Arya in the garden with a knife.  No Dothraki, unsullied, Northerners, army, Dany, Bran or Jon needed.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

 they managed to butcher beyond recognition even the characters they do like! It’s truly an awesome and amazing gift. :lol:

Sure.  Someone on the "Freefolk" Reddit, wrote that this butchery will eventually be taught in screenwriting classes, film schools, etc. and I have no doubt about it: EVERYTHING you shouldn't do is there!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

Sure.  Someone on the "Freefolk" Reddit, wrote that this butchery will eventually be taught in screenwriting classes, film schools, etc. and I have no doubt about it: EVERYTHING you shouldn't do is there!

They made Tyrion their self-insert, and we all hated Tyrion, by the end.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

Sure.  Someone on the "Freefolk" Reddit, wrote that this butchery will eventually be taught in screenwriting classes, film schools, etc. and I have no doubt about it: EVERYTHING you shouldn't do is there!

I think people will only study s8. No matter what problems we have with the series the last season achieved something that nobody thought possible. Despite all the problems with the previous seasons GOT was the biggest show ever and was loved by millions. Season 8 was able to ruin not only the ending but the entire series! More than half of the people that watched it now hate the series and the rest tolerates the ending. It nearly killed the GOT franchise. D&D got fired from star wars and after several years we sitll don t know what their new project is.

 

I don t know if s8 of GOT wasn t really the worst final season in tv history...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, divica said:

I think people will only study s8. No matter what problems we have with the series the last season achieved something that nobody thought possible. Despite all the problems with the previous seasons GOT was the biggest show ever and was loved by millions. Season 8 was able to ruin not only the ending but the entire series! More than half of the people that watched it now hate the series and the rest tolerates the ending. It nearly killed the GOT franchise. D&D got fired from star wars and after several years we sitll don t know what their new project is.

 

I don t know if s8 of GOT wasn t really the worst final season in tv history...

When you compare the output with the resources available to the show runners, it must be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've come to the conclusion that Benioff and Weiss never cared about the characters or the story at all. It was all about putting actors in positions where they could win awards, not from what they were saying or doing, but just from the looks on their faces. The whole created for TV storyline of the Night King is a case in point. Daenerys holding the dying Jorah in her arms with the battle continuing around her; Arya using her Faceless Man assassin training to sneak up and kill said character wearing some other face. Nope, nothing that referenced her training at all. No, it had to be Arya!Maisie coming in screaming like a banshee and getting grabbed by the throat (say high to the Night King's own Faceless Man as the very touch of the Night King was enough to turn the one touched).

No doubt Benioff and Weiss thought they were subverting expectations by not having Jon killing their created big bad. Yes, the Night King, who was killed, probably, by Azor Ahai using Lightbringer 6000 years earlier.

They kinda forgot that all the Starks, male and female, were trained to fight. So all those emerging in the crypt knew how to fight, but couldn't be bothered to pick up weapons or fight properly. It was like those old superhero movies where the hero gets swarmed under by a group of people and said superhero just emerges unscathed moments later. This was usually done to show the audience that the superhero has now embraced their superpowers. Benioff and Weiss repeat this meme several times to show off actors in heroic poses (award baiting). They did this for several actors, several times without understanding the purpose of the meme.

I very much doubt that The Winds of Winter will have a battle of Winterfell against the White Walkers. Book 5 part 2  - spoilers -so skip ahead, if you don't want to read it - is setting up Baelish to be killed by the Vale nobles, Sansa to the Lady of the Vale and Arya as Lady of the North as it's her name on the marriage licence. The books have yet to give us a Yara Greyjoy for Arya to gratuitously insult..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, tscchope said:

I've come to the conclusion that Benioff and Weiss never cared about the characters or the story at all. It was all about putting actors in positions where they could win awards, not from what they were saying or doing, but just from the looks on their faces. The whole created for TV storyline of the Night King is a case in point. Daenerys holding the dying Jorah in her arms with the battle continuing around her; Arya using her Faceless Man assassin training to sneak up and kill said character wearing some other face. Nope, nothing that referenced her training at all. No, it had to be Arya!Maisie coming in screaming like a banshee and getting grabbed by the throat (say high to the Night King's own Faceless Man as the very touch of the Night King was enough to turn the one touched).

No doubt Benioff and Weiss thought they were subverting expectations by not having Jon killing their created big bad. Yes, the Night King, who was killed, probably, by Azor Ahai using Lightbringer 6000 years earlier.

They kinda forgot that all the Starks, male and female, were trained to fight. So all those emerging in the crypt knew how to fight, but couldn't be bothered to pick up weapons or fight properly. It was like those old superhero movies where the hero gets swarmed under by a group of people and said superhero just emerges unscathed moments later. This was usually done to show the audience that the superhero has now embraced their superpowers. Benioff and Weiss repeat this meme several times to show off actors in heroic poses (award baiting). They did this for several actors, several times without understanding the purpose of the meme.

I very much doubt that The Winds of Winter will have a battle of Winterfell against the White Walkers. Book 5 part 2  - spoilers -so skip ahead, if you don't want to read it - is setting up Baelish to be killed by the Vale nobles, Sansa to the Lady of the Vale and Arya as Lady of the North as it's her name on the marriage licence. The books have yet to give us a Yara Greyjoy for Arya to gratuitously insult..

It turned the purpose of Jon's resurrection was to persuade Daenerys to come North, to fight the Dead, and then to kill her, rather than to kill the Night King.

This "subverted expectations".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, SeanF said:

It turned the purpose of Jon's resurrection was to persuade Daenerys to come North, to fight the Dead, and then to kill her, rather than to kill the Night King.

This "subverted expectations".

TV!Daenerys would have gone north to fight the dead, regardless of who was King of the North. Seemed more a plot device to kill off all of Daenerys' Dothraki. Then Benioff and Weiss realised they'd kinda forgot they still needed some Dothraki for King's Landing and brought some back as flesh and blood.

After Tyrion pretty much orders Jon to kill Daenerys and Jon does just that, it's hardly subverting expectations. Had Tyrion ordered Jon to marry his Aunt to rein her in and then in the Throne room came to the belief that Daenerys was going to kill and keep on killing and then stabbed her that would have been subverting expectations. I was expecting the resurrected TV!Jon to have a personality, but those expectations were subverted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, tscchope said:

TV!Daenerys would have gone north to fight the dead, regardless of who was King of the North. Seemed more a plot device to kill off all of Daenerys' Dothraki. Then Benioff and Weiss realised they'd kinda forgot they still needed some Dothraki for King's Landing and brought some back as flesh and blood.

After Tyrion pretty much orders Jon to kill Daenerys and Jon does just that, it's hardly subverting expectations. Had Tyrion ordered Jon to marry his Aunt to rein her in and then in the Throne room came to the belief that Daenerys was going to kill and keep on killing and then stabbed her that would have been subverting expectations. I was expecting the resurrected TV!Jon to have a personality, but those expectations were subverted.

By Season 8, Jon was just left agreeing with whoever spoke to him last.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/15/2020 at 7:54 PM, SeanF said:

Well, it's not great literature, but it is good fun.

The friend I watched it with and I had good fun making fun of it.

For us, it was shades of GoT. There were naked women out the wazoo, while the men wore panties at an orgy, and the male lead never showed below his upper chest. We kept joking that he must have been super bashful, because even in the bath and while having sex, he was discreetly covered. Meanwhile the female lead who was dying to be pretty and obsessed over having a baby was naked as a jaybird as much as she was clothed.

I barely watched, forgive me if I missed the plot (was there one?), but I think it could have been fun if they'd listened to Abigail Adams and remembered the ladies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, SeanF said:

By Season 8, Jon was just left agreeing with whoever spoke to him last.

 

 

An invading daenerys , who is still engulfed in the battles and skirmishes among the westerosi , perhaps in denial and uninterested in myths and long forgotten legends, and is suddenly surprised by the inevitability of winter arriving and with it , vast dead armies and the others commanding them, causing some direct harm to her immense forces, perhaps even her first dragon death , as a first contact , cinematic episode , would have been far more interesting and surprising than that far fetched wight hunt , dragon flight at light speed they conjured up , imo.  perhaps that would force her to retreat somewhere close to where she was battling , perhaps the trident or the twins and go to  winterfell , as a means to escape the others and regrouping with the other forces and then eventually seek an alliance with various houses and allies. No need for silly and surprisingly fresh and also very convenient  white walkers' paitings in some cave... 

 

Also, it is quite hilarious  how the conflict which was there from the beginning between Snow and the Winter forces really turned out to be,  :  King and Targeryen blooded Jon Snow,  daenerys targeryan , vast unsullied, dothraki, vale army, northern forces, cavalry, free folk, melisandre's red priestesse's magic, the all seeing and magical 3 eyed raven, iron born, nights' watch men , a massive stronghold and castle with magical walls and ancient spells and protections,  catapults with firepower, arches , spears, dragon glass weapons and defense systems  and valyrian steel, jamie fookin lannister with a valyrian sword, brienne the mega brute that will smash anyone and survive hundreds of wights with justher  screaming , with a valyrian sword, sam the untouchable whimping stabber , 2 full grown fire breathing dragons with plot armour in that episode  VS Night King : nothing is done. 

A little stark girl , without her magical face on, with just a knife vs the Ancient Night King, the Legendary Enemy from old lore and who brought everlasting winter for generations millenia ago :  GAME OVER. 

Jon Snow vs Dead Dragon : Jon screams and uses special rock power. Previous rock and stone walls innefective  as the dragon burns them easily.  The massive ancient Ice Wall fell . But this one IS MAAW SPECIAL D&D ROCK!! PLOT ARMOUR FOR ROCK ACTIVATED. 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/13/2020 at 6:18 PM, kissdbyfire said:

No, I’m dumb as a bag of hammers. Please do elaborate on your previous post so that someone as dim as myself will be able to comprehend some of your infinite wisdom. 

Hahahahaha, glad I'm back trying to pick through some of what I missed.  Hahahahaha. 

I almost didn't recognize you, you changed your avi and didn't include the bag of hammers?  LOLOL 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Hahahahaha, glad I'm back trying to pick through some of what I missed.  Hahahahaha. 

I almost didn't recognize you, you changed your avi and didn't include the bag of hammers?  LOLOL 

Hey! Great to see you!

LOL

Going through some of my less used fave redheads. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

The friend I watched it with and I had good fun making fun of it.

For us, it was shades of GoT. There were naked women out the wazoo, while the men wore panties at an orgy, and the male lead never showed below his upper chest. We kept joking that he must have been super bashful, because even in the bath and while having sex, he was discreetly covered. Meanwhile the female lead who was dying to be pretty and obsessed over having a baby was naked as a jaybird as much as she was clothed.

I barely watched, forgive me if I missed the plot (was there one?), but I think it could have been fun if they'd listened to Abigail Adams and remembered the ladies.

I was thinking more of books than show.  I hope they don't take all the wrong lessons from AGOT, in subsequent seasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, SeanF said:

I was thinking more of books than show.  I hope they don't take all the wrong lessons from AGOT, in subsequent seasons.

I understand, I was just having fun making fun of it again! It's like Netflix adopted the Benioff and Weiss Doctrine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

I understand, I was just having fun making fun of it again! It's like Netflix adopted the Benioff and Weiss Doctrine.

Yennefer gets tortured by Vilgefortz at one point in the books.  I can guess how Dumb & Dumber would enjoy adapting that scene.  

And, they'd be absolutely salivating at the scene where Ciri is abused by an older girl.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/16/2020 at 1:50 PM, Nowy Tends said:

I'm starting to think they understood absolutely nothing of certain characters, to a point that we hadn't even imagined. I believe they're only interested in the characters they think they can understand immediately: very gendered girls, smart mates who get drunk and make jokes, devious, sadists villains, etc. Clichés.

People like Stannis or Doran Martell are beyond their capacity to understand, so they're perceived as boring, there was no way they could be portrayed decently.

I've held that notion since Quorin Half-Hand's exit. Between making his decision (and not telling Jon about it) and the Wildlings showing up to kill him, he has Jon recite their vows with him- I'd believed for Quorin's own benefit. Scene not adapted. To me, that suggested an incomprehension of piety as a functional part of someone's personality (they can crib Savonarola, and that's their limit)- because from that viewpoint it was a powerful scene.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/16/2020 at 1:50 PM, Nowy Tends said:

I'm starting to think they understood absolutely nothing of certain characters, to a point that we hadn't even imagined. I believe they're only interested in the characters they think they can understand immediately: very gendered girls, smart mates who get drunk and make jokes, devious, sadists villains, etc. Clichés.

People like Stannis or Doran Martell are beyond their capacity to understand, so they're perceived as boring, there was no way they could be portrayed decently.

It's a shame really. In the case of Doran Martell, there's an article floating around somewhere that says that he was contracted for four episodes for Season 6, but for some reason this was cut down to one.

Another topic: Why isn't Varys doing his job in the last two seasons? He's supposed to be the Master of Whisperers, gathering intelligence and working propaganda to sow division amongst the enemies of the monarch he serves. And yet he does none of that, not even before he hears of Jon's lineage and starts plotting against Daenerys. Daenerys never even tries to win over the Westerosi population.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...