Jump to content

Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!


The Fattest Leech

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

In that it lived up to the hype instead of The Mountain falling like a chump (like the Night King).

I wholeheartedly disagree... For starters, the "hype" was uber dumb IMO. And even if I look at it w/ one eye closed and squint w/ the other, the actual fight was also very "meh". Not to mention that the way the show runners butchered any similarity the abomination might have one day had w/ a story - "a" story, never the actual proper story by Martin - made it impossible for me to actually feel anything while I watched the two morons going at it to the death. Zero emotional investment, zero interest... yawn yawn yawn. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

GRRM seems to think the same thing. Just look at Ned.

With all due respect, some of your posts, such as this one and your previous suggestion that A Song of Ice and Fire is cynical, lead me to believe you accidentally conflate books and show in your discussions and analyses. Be sure to look at the books with fresh eyes and without any context from the show when you do your next reread, should you opt to engage in one. I would not recommend rewatching Game of Thrones, but if you decide to, strip away all projections from the books and consider it on its own merits and as its own narrative. I am certain you will be surprised by how different they are, even as early as Season 1.

"Poor dumb/doomed Ned" is entirely a show invention. I tend to lament how the female characters were treated from the very start on the show and how it exemplifies the showrunners' misogyny, and rightly so; but the male characters were hardly unaffected by the bias and misunderstanding of the text on the part of the showrunners, though for different reasons, and Ned probably fared the worst among the gentlemen. In the books, it is bad luck and his unwillingness to see children harmed that leads to his demise; on the show, his honor is always pointed out as what got him killed. (Never mind that his ultimate downfall was, as consistent with R+L=J, choosing familial love and internal honor over his external honor... It is all but clear that D&D did not read AFfC or ADwD, but one has to wonder whether they truly read the first three books either.) Ned was also portrayed as out of his element on the show, whereas he is reluctant but quite competent in the books. Compare the context and framing with a few examples: Ned made multiple excellent logical arguments not to assassinate Daenerys while also reminding Robert of what honor necessitates in the books, whereas in the show he was reduced to piteously appealing to an abstract sense of honor; in the books, Littlefinger is a false friend who carefully ensures he is overlooked, and whom Cat eventually begrudgingly trusted due to their childhood, leading Ned to do the same, whereas he could not more clearly a moustache-twirling villain on the show; and so forth.

As for ASoIaF or Mr. Martin himself being cynical, I think contending that would result in a debate beyond the scope of this thread, and one that would be overly lengthy besides. However, I think it is important to note that he is manifestly a classical romantic whose other published works illustrate this fact, so this is highly unlikely to be true on that basis alone, never mind the hopeful tone the books have managed to capture. Beyond that, the differences in tone between the works are noteworthy: Game of Thrones is indeed cynical, utterly grimdark with very few moments of levity or love (and the vast majority of those that existed were blatant emotional manipulation), and ultimately nihilistic (with an empty, bleak ending to prove it); but A Song of Ice and Fire has many instances of genuine love with family, friends, and spouses, small moments of kindness and empathy by primary, secondary, and tertiary characters alike, warm humor, demonstrations of merriment, simple humanity of the PoV characters rather than unbroken stoicism, and so forth.  The show's treatment of Sansa and Sandor is a perfect microcosm of this: rather than Sandor tempering Sansa's naïvete, while realizing the world is not hopeless and that he can at least strive to do better (and possibly lead by example) according to Sansa's romantic outlook, Sandor's initial cynicism is always proven to be correct, and his effect on Sansa is amplified manifold while her effect on him is completely excised. (Refer also to the so-called Septon Ray and his community being brutally murdered in Season 6, an event anyone could see coming precisely because of the show's unrelenting nihilism, yet again proving Sandor's cynicism correct).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

GRRM seems to think the same thing. Just look at Ned.

I don't think GRRM is nearly as cynical. The people who gamed Ned got/will get their just desserts. To be sure, they did on the show as well, but that theme is undercut by crap like "I'm just a stupid girl..."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Many-Faced Votary said:

With all due respect, some of your posts, such as this one and your previous suggestion that A Song of Ice and Fire is cynical, lead me to believe you accidentally conflate books and show in your discussions and analyses. Be sure to look at the books with fresh eyes and without any context from the show when you do your next reread, should you opt to engage in one. I would not recommend rewatching Game of Thrones, but if you decide to, strip away all projections from the books and consider it on its own merits and as its own narrative. I am certain you will be surprised by how different they are, even as early as Season 1.

"Poor dumb/doomed Ned" is entirely a show invention. I tend to lament how the female characters were treated from the very start on the show and how it exemplifies the showrunners' misogyny, and rightly so; but the male characters were hardly unaffected by the bias and misunderstanding of the text on the part of the showrunners, though for different reasons, and Ned probably fared the worst among the gentlemen. In the books, it is bad luck and his unwillingness to see children harmed that leads to his demise; on the show, his honor is always pointed out as what got him killed. (Never mind that his ultimate downfall was, as consistent with R+L=J, choosing familial love and internal honor over his external honor... It is all but clear that D&D did not read AFfC or ADwD, but one has to wonder whether they truly read the first three books either.) Ned was also portrayed as out of his element on the show, whereas he is reluctant but quite competent in the books. Compare the context and framing with a few examples: Ned made multiple excellent logical arguments not to assassinate Daenerys while also reminding Robert of what honor necessitates in the books, whereas in the show he was reduced to piteously appealing to an abstract sense of honor; in the books, Littlefinger is a false friend who carefully ensures he is overlooked, and whom Cat eventually begrudgingly trusted due to their childhood, leading Ned to do the same, whereas he could not more clearly a moustache-twirling villain on the show; and so forth.

As for ASoIaF or Mr. Martin himself being cynical, I think contending that would result in a debate beyond the scope of this thread, and one that would be overly lengthy besides. However, I think it is important to note that he is manifestly a classical romantic whose other published works illustrate this fact, so this is highly unlikely to be true on that basis alone, never mind the hopeful tone the books have managed to capture. Beyond that, the differences in tone between the works are noteworthy: Game of Thrones is indeed cynical, utterly grimdark with very few moments of levity or love (and the vast majority of those that existed were blatant emotional manipulation), and ultimately nihilistic (with an empty, bleak ending to prove it); but A Song of Ice and Fire has many instances of genuine love with family, friends, and spouses, small moments of kindness and empathy by primary, secondary, and tertiary characters alike, warm humor, demonstrations of merriment, simple humanity of the PoV characters rather than unbroken stoicism, and so forth.  The show's treatment of Sansa and Sandor is a perfect microcosm of this: rather than Sandor tempering Sansa's naïvete, while realizing the world is not hopeless and that he can at least strive to do better (and possibly lead by example) according to Sansa's romantic outlook, Sandor's initial cynicism is always proven to be correct, and his effect on Sansa is amplified manifold while her effect on him is completely excised. (Refer also to the so-called Septon Ray and his community being brutally murdered in Season 6, an event anyone could see coming precisely because of the show's unrelenting nihilism, yet again proving Sandor's cynicism correct).

"Honour is stupid" is basically D & D's take on the story.  Their view was that Cersei and Littlefinger were people to be admired, and that it was a good thing that Sansa should be "a graduate of the Littlefinger School".  If book Sansa were to become such a graduate, participating in LF's crimes during her time in the Vale, I'm certain that Martin would portray that as a tragic defeat, not as a triumph.

Martin's view - I think - is that death comes to us all, so what matters is how we live.  D & D think that winning the Game of Thrones is what matters.  From their viewpoint, it's logical that reformers are tyrants, the Seven Kingdoms are best ruled by people who see the Smallfolk as livestock, and that the Master of Coin should be an illiterate, corrupt, sellsword.

D & D are a (very) poor man's version of K J Parker - all of the cynicism, with none of the literary skill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems like they missed more than the 8th grade, they missed Sesame Street. According to them:

  • honor, sacrificing your own life to try to save your kids = bad (Ned, and they even had his own kids mock him for it)
  • framing a hostage for murder, kidnapping her, sex trafficking her = good (LF, and they let him call it love, and even made her call it that)
  • all the horrors that is Ramsay = good (they said he was a "badass" and went out of their way to make him look good, giving him superpowers)
  • screwing your brother/sister and having treason babies who were sure to die = good (they made Jaime and Cersei a grand love affair instead of a cautionary tale)
  • sexual assault = good (Jaime "forcing" (their word) Cersei is love, and they made Sansa thank a sex trafficker and rapist for empowering her)
  • "devirgining" (their word) a maiden then abandoning her to screw your sister = good (in the script they made it seem like Jaime did Brienne a favor)
  • giving a septa to a zombie to be tortured = good (and something to forget about, after all, Cersei is "just a girl who needs the comfort of a man")
  • attacking someone the person you are "saving" clearly said she wants to stay with = good (Brienne the Brute ignoring Arya and nearly killing Sandor, then Arya ran away from her anyway)
  • standing by watching for a candle instead of rescuing the person you are supposed to be saving then running off to avenge your dead crush = good (Brienne the Brute killing Stannis)
  • withholding an entire army from your brother who miraculously was not killed then smiling when you feed a man to dogs = good
  • throwing away your life = good (Sandor committing suicide by zombie, Jaime committing suicide by incest)
  • murdering your girlfriend (or kidnapped prostitute in the case of Tyrion) = good (look what you made me do, and they called that love, too)

And more. They are so twisted, in so many ways, it's hard to recall them all. Thankfully there's this thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

It seems like they missed more than the 8th grade, they missed Sesame Street. According to them:

  • honor, sacrificing your own life to try to save your kids = bad (Ned, and they even had his own kids mock him for it)
  • framing a hostage for murder, kidnapping her, sex trafficking her = good (LF, and they let him call it love, and even made her call it that)
  • all the horrors that is Ramsay = good (they said he was a "badass" and went out of their way to make him look good, giving him superpowers
  • screwing your brother/sister and having treason babies who were sure to die = good (they made Jaime and Cersei a grand love affair instead of a cautionary tale)
  • sexual assault = good (Jaime forcing Cersei is love, and they made Sansa thank a sex trafficker and rapist for empowering her)
  • "devirgining" (their word) a maiden then abandoning her to screw your sister = good (in the script they made it seem like Jaime did Brienne a favor)
  • giving a septa to a zombie to be tortured = good (and something to forget about, after all, Cersei is "just a girl who needs the comfort of a man")
  • attacking someone the person you are "saving" clearly said she wants to stay with = good (Brienne the Brute ignoring Arya and nearly killing Sandor, then Arya ran away from her anyway)
  • standing by watching for a candle instead of rescuing the person you are supposed to be saving then running off to avenge your dead crush = good (Brienne the Brute killing Stannis)
  • withholding an entire army from your brother who miraculously was not killed then smiling when you feed a man to dogs = good
  • throwing away your life = good (Sandor committing suicide by zombie, Jaime committing suicide by incest)
  • murdering your girlfriend (or kidnapped prostitute in the case of Tyrion) = good (look what you made me do, and they called that love, too)

And more. They are so twisted, in so many ways, it's hard to recall them all. Thankfully there's this thread.

Resisting rape = bad

Fighting slavery = bad

Sexual slavery = good

Prioritising new brothels = good

Describing the Smallfolk as livestock = good

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/7/2020 at 3:25 PM, SeanF said:

I still prefer my version of the ending.

Jon stabs Dany, only to find his dagger snags on the lining of steel plates in her dress.  She replies "Do you think I'd be so f*cking stupid as to leave myself unprotected in a city I've just sacked."  Grey Worm arrests Jon, who confesses that Tyrion encouraged him to murder her.

Dany tells Jon he can redeem himself by burning Tyrion at the stake. He does so, while the Unsullied drum their spears on the ground in approval.  She then tells him that nothing gets her in the mood, like watching a traitor burn.  They then proceed to have wild sex with each other.

The episode ends with Dany flying North to burn Winterfell to the ground, while Jon leads an army on the ground.

I'd be pretty satisfied to become Dany's sex slave too. There are far worse opportunities in that world :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is so good:

Benioff and Weiss still aren’t sure why George R.R. Martin entrusted them with his magnum opus, as the two didn’t have any comparable experience, or even an appreciation of the book’s themes.

It seems that the two men aimed for a moonshot, and somehow, hit their target, suddenly tasked with retelling an immensely complex story, without fully understanding it. In fact, Benioff once said: “Themes are for eighth-grade book reports,” which tells you all you need to know about his dedication to the art of storytelling.

If you’re wondering why a wildly successful writer is comfortable dismissing “themes” as childish and unnecessary, it should be noted that Benioff’s father is the former head of Goldman Sachs. Do we live in a meritocracy? Well, Bret Stephens still writes for the New York Times, so ...

The two went on to admit that they had absolutely no idea how to work with costume designers (kind of important for a fantasy series), and described their experience making Thrones as “an expensive film school.”...

The Faceless Men, the Lord of Light, the Night King; all magical elements of the story that were never resolved, despite clearly being vital to the story. Hence, “the Prince that was promised” never showed up, and Beric Dondarrion’s grand destiny was teased, but never delivered.

Benioff and Weiss were elevated to success by HBO’s polished infrastructure, the architecture of George R.R. Martin’s books, and the immense talent of every individual that surrounded them, particularly the actors.

They were exposed only when they ran out of material, and had to finish the story themselves. Amusingly, the two never went online to read criticisms of the show from fans, who clearly understood the books better than they did...

It seems that the Game of Thrones writer’s room was a “safe space,” shielded from criticism and outsider perspective. In a way, it’s a relief to finally understand why the show went in such a bizarre direction; there was no one there to tell Benioff and Weiss that their ideas were nonsensical.

Nobody was there to tell them to stop inserting random rape scenes for shock value, or that Euron Greyjoy was dreadful, or that the Great Houses of Westeros finally putting aside their differences and crowning a wheelchair-bound shaman as king was immensely, indescribably stupid.  

Kevin Smith once said: "In Hollywood, you just kind of fail upwards," and I think that’s a pretty apt description of how Benioff and Weiss created their hit show...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2019/10/28/game-of-thrones-showrunners-david-benioff-and-db-weiss-confirmed-the-worst-suspicions-of-the-fanbase/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, SeanF said:

Resisting rape = bad

Fighting slavery = bad

Sexual slavery = good

Prioritising new brothels = good

Describing the Smallfolk as livestock = good

That reminds me, prostitutes were always happy hookers. They were happily frolicking naked throughout the series, delighted to have sex with anyone and everyone, even with the most unappealing and disgusting men. Even the sex slaves were thrilled. This is how little they regarded women.

The scene where the sex slave begged an impoverished dwarf to do it for free, she even said he was dirty and smelly. If there's one scene that reveals the hideous selves of Benioff/Weiss/Cogman and their infatuation with their self-insert, St. Tyrion, perhaps it's this one (but there are so many scenes like this, it's hard to narrow it down to one).

GRRM would write honest scenes, where women rejected him, because damn it, it's a woman's right to not want someone she doesn't want, and then show his reaction, which was a sense of bitter entitlement. He murdered a woman for not wanting him. There were so many examples of this, how he never learned that women are people, too.

Benioff and Weiss and Cogman never gave a rat's ass what a woman wanted.

The only time they went into the down side of peasants as prostitutes in the middle ages was Ros, and only after they decided to exploit her to show Joffrey is bad yet again (before that, she was the happiest of happy hookers). And they completely forgot what Littlefinger did to her, they were too busy glorifying him.

(Also they made happy hookers the punchline for their boys Tyrion and Bronn in the end.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

That reminds me, prostitutes were always happy hookers. They were happily frolicking naked throughout the series, delighted to have sex with anyone and everyone, even with the most unappealing and disgusting men. Even the sex slaves were thrilled. This is how little they regarded women.

The scene where the sex slave begged an impoverished dwarf to do it for free, she even said he was dirty and smelly. If there's one scene that reveals the hideous selves of Benioff/Weiss/Cogman and their infatuation with their self-insert, St. Tyrion, perhaps it's this one (but there are so many scenes like this, it's hard to narrow it down to one).

GRRM would write honest scenes, where women rejected him, because damn it, it's a woman's right to not want someone she doesn't want, and then show his reaction, which was a sense of bitter entitlement. He murdered a woman for not wanting him. There were so many examples of this, how he never learned that women are people, too.

Benioff and Weiss and Cogman never gave a rat's ass what a woman wanted.

The only time they went into the down side of peasants as prostitutes in the middle ages was Ros, and only after they decided to exploit her to show Joffrey is bad yet again (before that, she was the happiest of happy hookers). And they completely forgot what Littlefinger did to her, they were too busy glorifying him.

Portraying sexual slavery as glamorous is not just disgusting, it also runs completely contrary to what's in the books.  Consider the people we see as sex slaves:-

The unnamed prostitute in Selhorys that Tyrion rapes, who only wants to die.

Melisandre, by now a very powerful woman, but who we see in her POV chapter, is tormented by memories of what she went through as a young temple prostitute.

Jeyne Poole, who is frightened out of her wits. 

And, even the death of Ros was creepy and sexualised.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

That reminds me, prostitutes were always happy hookers. They were happily frolicking naked throughout the series, delighted to have sex with anyone and everyone, even with the most unappealing and disgusting men. Even the sex slaves were thrilled. This is how little they regarded women.

The scene where the sex slave begged an impoverished dwarf to do it for free, she even said he was dirty and smelly. If there's one scene that reveals the hideous selves of Benioff/Weiss/Cogman and their infatuation with their self-insert, St. Tyrion, perhaps it's this one (but there are so many scenes like this, it's hard to narrow it down to one).

GRRM would write honest scenes, where women rejected him, because damn it, it's a woman's right to not want someone she doesn't want, and then show his reaction, which was a sense of bitter entitlement. He murdered a woman for not wanting him. There were so many examples of this, how he never learned that women are people, too.

Benioff and Weiss and Cogman never gave a rat's ass what a woman wanted.

The only time they went into the down side of peasants as prostitutes in the middle ages was Ros, and only after they decided to exploit her to show Joffrey is bad yet again (before that, she was the happiest of happy hookers). And they completely forgot what Littlefinger did to her, they were too busy glorifying him.

(Also they made happy hookers the punchline for their boys Tyrion and Bronn in the end.)

Yes that is the one scene of all that shows how much they worshipped Tyrion. I'm no prostitute but I'm certain no prostitute would ever offer it for free. It doesn't matter how attractive that person is either. Prostitutes are surely happy to not have to do it but to offer it for free to anyone, let alone a filthy, scarred dwarf is insane. At least in Westeros, Tyrion might have been able to use his family name to his advantage. There he is just another customer.

 

If Tyrion did it, I'm sure he would have been the best she ever had too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/4/2020 at 11:41 PM, The Dragon Demands said:

Personally, what I think....you have to understand that Benioff and Weiss are frauds.  They're not real screenwriters, they faked their way into the position, they've openly boasted about this.

The studio system is a world that still has the archaic mindset that "awards wins are a measure of success"....even though everyone knows the entire awards system is a sham.  You've got studios like HBO who....make multi-million dollar behind the scenes campaigns gladhanding the voting pool to make sure THEIR screenwriters and actors get awards, cynically to boost their public image....then these same executives...will hire screenwriters and actors from OTHER networks, who happen to be winning a lot of awards....because other studios are rigging the system just as much as HBO is.  

The awards became an end unto themselves.  People seriously thinking this reflected profit or higher ratings.  

Benioff and Weiss actually haven't won as many awards as HBO hypes that they have:  Game of Thrones NEVER won lead drama acting awards.  Only Dinklage ever won anything....more to do with the fact that he's Dinklage than anything.  And there were huge campaigns the past 2 years all focused on pandering Clarke and Harington for not just Emmys, but even Golden Globes.

I have entire video series devoted to this.  But the short answer is that you have to step back and realize that they DO NOT do things for shock value.  We're rehashing arguments we've had since season 5.

Why are you saying "subvert expectations" in quotes, as if that's something they directly said?  What are you quoting?

We let our own assumptions get in to this: even since season 5, "well I guess they did that for shock value"

If you study their actual behavior and statements....they're a pair of frauds who got hired through nepotism and old boys' networks, and who ride the coat tails of major actors to fame.  They're just showing off the actors.

"Shock value"?  No.  Awards-baiting with celebrity actors.

Actually consider where they were by October 2017:  HBO had the Confederate debacle on their hands, and by that February 2018, they signed on with Star Wars.

They wanted to pad their resumes with acting award wins on their show, so they could further their careers at Star Wars or Netflix.  That's how the corrupt TV system works.  Rather openly works.  And we naively tried to understand what Benioff and Weiss are doing.....as we would review a bad book.   But it's not a book; it's two nepotistic buffoons glad-handing their way through a corrupt studio system.  

 

 

Short version;  they wanted to fuel an amazing, awards-baiting acting scene in which Kit Harington (Jon) kills Emilia Clarke (Daenerys).  

This corroborates with the other video clips I've posted, of their own statements, demonstrating that they basically focused all their attention on her death scene while leaving the rest of the season to rot.  

Given that they actively told Clarke not to read the storyboards, I'm not sure if they were even pandering her for an award, so much as Kit Harington - who even got a Golden Globe nomination this year.

 

What tipped me off that this is how they work?  Probably the soul-crushing Blu-ray commentary for the Sansa rape scene in which the quisling Bryan Cogman goes on a 12 minute rant openly defending that the justification for this invented rape subplot is that it shows off Sophie Turner's acting abilities.  "These Performances, These Faces".  

 

So I think that at some point they panicked, or due to their deep-seated insecurities (because they're not real screenwriters), they kept coming up with "better" versions of their own scripts, panicking that it needed to be "the best" in order to further their careers at Star Wars. 

Maybe subverting expectations, maybe "avoid the expected" since that's the wording one of them used in the "Inside the Episode" for "The Long Night" as to why it was Arya who killed the Night King instead of Jon.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Maybe subverting expectations, maybe "avoid the expected" since that's the wording one of them used in the "Inside the Episode" for "The Long Night" as to why it was Arya who killed the Night King instead of Jon

But that’s not how it works. Subverting expectations requires a lot groundwork... you have to plant the seeds so that when it happens, readers/audiences can understand it, even if in hindsight (rereads/rewatches). Pulling something completely nonsensical out of your arse just b/c it’s the most unpredictable thing you can do is not “subverting expectations”, it’s just ruining the story and butchering characters and their arcs, all for the sake of a “gotcha” moment. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

But that’s not how it works. Subverting expectations requires a lot groundwork... you have to plant the seeds so that when it happens, readers/audiences can understand it, even if in hindsight (rereads/rewatches). Pulling something completely nonsensical out of your arse just b/c it’s the most unpredictable thing you can do is not “subverting expectations”, it’s just ruining the story and butchering characters and their arcs, all for the sake of a “gotcha” moment. 

Yes, there's nothing, with the benefit of hindsight, to suggest that Arya would kill the Night King.  As you say, it's an arse-pull.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

But that’s not how it works. Subverting expectations requires a lot groundwork... you have to plant the seeds so that when it happens, readers/audiences can understand it, even if in hindsight (rereads/rewatches). Pulling something completely nonsensical out of your arse just b/c it’s the most unpredictable thing you can do is not “subverting expectations”, it’s just ruining the story and butchering characters and their arcs, all for the sake of a “gotcha” moment. 

Actually, I mentioned K J Parker upthread.  In his novel, The Hammer, there's a murder, described a bit more than half way through the novel, which feels like a punch to the guts.  It's awful.

And, then you think about it, and you realise that he's been dropping hints and clues about it all the way up to that point. That's the classic case of subversion of expectations, with a huge amount of groundwork. He's the kind of author where you really ought to be taking notes throughout.  Benioff & Weiss, not so much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, SeanF said:

Yes, there's nothing, with the benefit of hindsight, to suggest that Arya would kill the Night King.  As you say, it's an arse-pull.

But, that is even beside the point, sure you could have the ninja assassin kill the NK, whatever, the problem with Arya killing the NK isn't that it isn't believable that a FM could kill him, it is that having Arya do it GUTS Jon Snow's entire storyline and reason for existing, as well as making his 'alliance' with Dany, Dany's presence in the battle and the dragons all moot.  All Jon Snow did for 3 seasons was blab about the NK, and then, in the battle, he is totally, utterly superfluous and so is Dany.  Its also another example of how stupid the show made everyone...if Bran can see the future, ahem, then he would know Arya will kill the NK and thus, sacrificing the entire Dothraki army and most of your own people is stupid, they could have kept back 1/2 their forces with the same result. For that matter, they could have abandoned WF leaving Bran and a small force there to trap the NK into going there and saved almost everyone.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

But, that is even beside the point, sure you could have the ninja assassin kill the NK, whatever, the problem with Arya killing the NK isn't that it isn't believable that a FM could kill him, it is that having Arya do it GUTS Jon Snow's entire storyline and reason for existing, as well as making his 'alliance' with Dany, Dany's presence in the battle and the dragons all moot.  All Jon Snow did for 3 seasons was blab about the NK, and then, in the battle, he is totally, utterly superfluous and so is Dany.  Its also another example of how stupid the show made everyone...if Bran can see the future, ahem, then he would know Arya will kill the NK and thus, sacrificing the entire Dothraki army and most of your own people is stupid, they could have kept back 1/2 their forces with the same result. For that matter, they could have abandoned WF leaving Bran and a small force there to trap the NK into going there and saved almost everyone.  

It's even worse than that.  The Night King had to kill a dragon to get through the Wall.  There was no need for anyone to set foot North of the Wall.  Nor for Daenerys to fly to rescue them. Jon spent ages blabbing about a non-existent threat.  Once the wildlings had made it through safely, the Wall merely had to be sealed behind them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, SeanF said:

It's even worse than that.  The Night King had to kill a dragon to get through the Wall.  There was no need for anyone to set foot North of the Wall.  Nor for Daenerys to fly to rescue them. Jon spent ages blabbing about a non-existent threat.  Once the wildlings had made it through safely, the Wall merely had to be sealed behind them.

Haha, a long chain of stupid...they lost a dragon in the insane quest to prove to the least trustworthy person in Westeros that she needed to play nice, which not even Hot Pie would believe is possible.  

ETA...its also another vein of stupid that not a single person ever said, hey Arya, since you are a FM and can slice off and wear the faces of your enemies...maybe you should be integral to our plan here.  Nah. We'll send the Dothraki vanguard out to die, that'll work. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...