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Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!


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2 hours ago, SeanF said:

As to the wider media, well, no one really cares about Game of Thrones any more.  It's almost as if it sunk into a an abyss.

Game of Thrones has settled into use as the bad example. It's the beacon of badness.

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15 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

So....what are other points people cite as "all those times they foreshadowed she'd burn cities"???

Slaver's Bay if I remember correctly. I think both Astapor and Mereen. And she repeated Drogo's speech from S1 after she took over the Dothraki in S6 about laying waste to Westeros. And there was Qarth like you mentioned. Those are all I remember in a pinch.

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6 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Game of Thrones has settled into use as the bad example. It's the beacon of badness.

I even created a term when discussing the game: the last of us 2.

I called it The game of thrones effect. Where all that matters is getting to the end and nothing before makes any sense.

I wonder if I should get that phrase trademarked :P

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20 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Not going to lie, I'm falling into a deep depression over the lack of news attention to this.  Elio never gave his views on it at all.  Mainstream news didn't bother to report on it.  Vanity Fair's Joanna Robinson flat out said that I made it up -- not that I "misinterpreted" the script text, but some vague accusation that "I read the scripts, it doesn't say that, the on-screen version is the real ending!" when.....no, the WGA script is very different.

 

Sorry to quote this twice; but some thoughts hopped into my head last night, which may or may not be helpful; but let me toss them out and see what happens:

1. For news outlets, I wondered vaguely if some less mainstream outlets like MOTHER JONES would be willing to look into it. Though they seem mostly to do stories where people end up dying, which is why I stopped subscribing (a little TOO grim). But they do stories other news media ignore.

2. The news media are fickle. But the GOT scandal (if we want to call it that) does have historical significance. Firstly, it's a major television show, so historically interesting in and of itself. Secondly, it has exemplary importance as a case study of a) what happens when class privilege and "connexions" trump actual knowledge and experience, and b) the treatment of staff and actors, which also ties into class privilege. (It's easy to forget that the entertainment industry is ... an industry, and that labour relations apply there too.)

3. Because of this historical importance, I wonder if your research would form the basis of a book. To my knowledge (granted I haven't looked), there aren't any books analysing GOT in this way. Things get drowned out on the Internet; there's too much noise. (I guess in a book one would have to tone down or remove some of the more personal reflexions on Benioff's character and focus on what he did and the significance thereof.)

4. Your channel does have value in reporting on these things. It also has value for other contributions, like relating ASOIAF to the real Middle Ages (the amount of ignorance on "mediaeval times" that one finds among people who comment on the books can be ... disappointing), and things like Valyrian religion or the language of the COTF, which I don't know that anyone else has talked about.

I hope this helps!

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19 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Look at it all together, it's a series of deliberate choices. And they are responsible for their choices.

Ignorance is no excuse. They are repeat offenders. There is intent. For 10 years they did the same offensive things, after being told they were offensive.

They ignored criticism and did the opposite of the source material. Over and over and over again. This is not accidental. This is a pattern spanning a decade.

They were taken to task for these things, and they chose to double down on it.

Look at this review from season one:

Historical accuracy and fear of anachronism are not good excuses for representing racial and sexual politics in the way that Game of Thrones does. Deadwood began its run with some similarly shocking occurrences of sexual violence and racial caricature. But that show also offered blistering and uncomfortable critiques of the culture that enabled and encouraged those acts, and it offered layered portraits of women and ethnic and racial minorities who survived and resisted that dismal age.

There’s no evidence of such critique so far in Game of Thrones. Every act of brutality, every assaulted woman, every exoticized barbarian is presented for the delectation of the audience. No prostitute appears on screen without her bosom already exposed, no transgressive sex act occurs without the frame of luxuriant tapestries or the glow of moonlight upon it. This show’s historical misogyny and racism are purely aesthetic, and that’s a problem we should hope this series works out on the double.

https://www.slantmagazine.com/tv/game-of-thrones-season-one/

They never said oh, thanks for pointing that out, we'll try to do better. It was quite the opposite. They enjoyed thumbing their noses at critics.

They are the ultimate good ole boys.

Completely agreed.  By calling their bigotry "casual" or "ignorant" I don't mean it as any sort of excuse.  I mean it in the sense that I don't think they possess the self-awareness or self-reflection to even realize it.  And, yes, they made those choices every.single.time. 

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They don't seem to take any kind of correction from their subordinates very well. Even the directors apparently had to present them with an alternative; they ignored "we can't do X", but might listen to "we can't do X, but can do Y". This according to Sapochnik iirc.

Reportedly, the Qyburn actor begged them to fix a bizarre error where he simply .... disappears, but they refused (?).

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1 minute ago, Count Balerion said:

They don't seem to take any kind of correction from their subordinates very well. Even the directors apparently had to present them with an alternative; they ignored "we can't do X", but might listen to "we can't do X, but can do Y". This according to Sapochnik iirc.

Reportedly, the Qyburn actor begged them to fix a bizarre error where he simply .... disappears, but they refused (?).

So that would be why Jaime’s hand reappears in The Bells?

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11 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

at what specific point?

There was a still that apparently didn't make it to the CGI department in time that shows Jaime's right hand as flesh and blood. Plus there's also the Starbucks cup and the water bottles.

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On 7/15/2020 at 8:33 PM, Prince of the North said:

Completely agreed.  By calling their bigotry "casual" or "ignorant" I don't mean it as any sort of excuse.  I mean it in the sense that I don't think they possess the self-awareness or self-reflection to even realize it.  And, yes, they made those choices every.single.time. 

Ah, I see what you mean.

Socrates and the unexamined life is not worth living must have been covered in the 8th grade, hence they missed it. They remind me of Archie Bunker, only he sort of evolved a tiny bit, IIRC. Not them.

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6 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Ah, I see what you mean.

Socrates and the unexamined life is not worth living must have been covered in the 8th grade, hence they missed it. They remind me of Archie Bunker, only he sort of evolved a tiny bit, IIRC. Not them.

I think it would probably be doing them too much credit, to suggest that they are sufficiently intelligent to be consciously promoting an unpleasant political philosophy.

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On 7/15/2020 at 9:12 AM, Le Cygne said:

Game of Thrones has settled into use as the bad example. It's the beacon of badness.

I know we've discussed Better Call Saul, here and elsewhere.

It would be like the producers suddenly revealing in Season 6, that Kim is a serial killer, Jimmy is a rapist, and Howard a child molester, just to generate shocks.

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On 7/15/2020 at 3:12 AM, Le Cygne said:

Game of Thrones has settled into use as the bad example. It's the beacon of badness.

Absolutely!  If it hasn't already, it will become the quintessential example of unrealized potential (at least as far as book to tv adaptations go).  It is the absolute pinnacle of shows that had so very much in place for success...and then just squandered it.  

Mark my words, it will be studied for a long time to come in film/writing courses around the world as an example of what NOT to do.

Turns out all the money, resources, and company prestige (HBO) in the world still do not make up for unskilled and uncommitted showrunners.   

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Here's a new article:

Once believed to have gone extinct, Daenerys Targaryen’s three dragons — Drogon, Rhaegal, and Viserion — were fierce, powerful creatures. Armed with scales that shielded them against the most lethal attacks, the dragons could decimate entire cities with a simple “Dracarys” command from Daenerys.

It shouldn’t have been possible for Game of Thrones to kill off Daenerys’ dragons so easily. Euron Greyjoy quickly dispatched Rhaegal in Game of Thrones Season 8, shooting a scorpion dart through his underbelly. In Season 7, the Night King killed Viserion by launching an ice spear through his neck. It was disappointing to see these immensely powerful creatures one-shotted after hearing so much about their legendary power. But the deaths of Rhaegal and Viserion don't align with the lore within George R.R. Martin’s A Song of Ice and Fire. The Winds of Winter, the sixth book in the series, could fix the biggest dragon problem from Game of Thrones...

If Rhaegal is to ultimately die in The Winds of Winter, it should definitely be more of a climactic event than on the show, especially considering that Euron was a relatively new character who just happened to take a random shot at a dragon. It's possible Euron will attempt to figure out how to kill dragons so that he can take the perfect shot, likely through the eye.

There's a slim chance that none of the dragons will die, but Daenerys' claim to the Iron Throne makes them an obvious target for her enemies. The very least The Winds of Winter could do is give Rhaegal and Viserion a more memorable sendoff.

Also another newish one:

All that said, it would be a mistake for Cleganebowl to happen. It wasn’t very satisfying in the show and it’s sure to be less satisfying if it happens in The Winds of Winter. This is especially true considering Sandor’s personal journey thus far. Sandor’s entire life has been spent trying to fight the urge to be violent. He hated Gregor for the brutality and violence he so easily used against people. Sandor wanted to be better than his rage-fueled brother, as evidenced by his loyal protection of the Stark sisters. He’s had a lot of missteps, but the Hound’s path towards a life of less violence has been satisfying. Still, it was frustrating to see Sandor develop meaningful friendships and find a cause bigger than revenge, only to give his life at the end of Season 8 to fulfill the vendetta he'd outgrown.

If the Hound is indeed revealed to be the gravedigger, then it might be best to let him live out the rest of his life in peace — or at least leave his fraternal grudge in the past. He’s suffered at the hands of his brother long enough.

https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/winds-of-winter-release-date-dragons

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When people still use "Winter is Coming" as an expression, like something will actually happen, it's just a reminder of how empty that was on the show. Winter is Coming = So What.

It also is interesting that they even managed to mess with Ned that way, too, since that was his line. They hated Ned because he was a better person than they are.

They actually made a show about how honor is stupid.

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52 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

When people still use "Winter is Coming" as an expression, like something will actually happen, it's just a reminder of how empty that was on the show. Winter is Coming = So What.

It also is interesting that they even managed to mess with Ned that way, too, since that was his line. They hated Ned because he was a better person than they are.

They actually made a show about how honor is stupid.

The people they wanted to be were Tyrion, Cersei, and Littlefinger.

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