Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[Corvinus85]

On 8/6/2020 at 11:20 AM, Angel Eyes said:

Something strange about that episode: didn’t it get nominated for best writing?...

Not only nominated, it won the Emmy for best writing.

[Angel Eyes]

A relatively minor quibble, but why does Gendry identify himself as Gendry Rivers? He was only in the Riverlands for two years tops and spent most of his working life in the Crownlands. At least with Bran calling Jon a Sand makes a little sense because he was born in Dorne and was regarded as a Snow because he was raised in the North (hence why Obara Sand is not Obara Flowers).

[BlackLightning]

7 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

A relatively minor quibble, but why does Gendry identify himself as Gendry Rivers? He was only in the Riverlands for two years tops and spent most of his working life in the Crownlands. At least with Bran calling Jon a Sand makes a little sense because he was born in Dorne and was regarded as a Snow because he was raised in the North (hence why Obara Sand is not Obara Flowers).

They forgot their own story.

[Count Balerion]

Not for the first time, or the last.

The problems with the show seem to have hit my subconscious. I dreamt that while watching scenes from GOT, someone says something about plots being woven together. Me: Something to the effect "There's nothing woven; they just toss things in when they feel like it." (I might have added that in later seasons there wasn't really a plot, either.)

A tent meeting of people fighting against D&D. The people in charge have us take out our copies of GRRM's book. (It was only one book and had a picture of GRRM on the cover.) I think that was meant to be our secret weapon or something.

 

Someone says the Emmys should present a usurper award. Which could mean an award for someone playing a usurper, or for someone actually usurping. Would one call D&D usurpers? They did kind of get put in charge of GOT on false pretences?

[The Dragon Demands]

yeah

[Count Balerion]

Ah, context matters. Not to mention the digital medium fooling me into taking it literally. Well, not quite literally, but you know.

[Le Cygne]

Ah, the line about how viewers were disappointed with the ending because it ended. Whoever thought up that talking point, they sure wore it out trying to defend that mess.

No. Viewers wanted the characters to behave like human beings, how about that for a start. And for it to be meaningful and make sense. And not be something they wanted to forget.

Were you surprised that some “Game of Thrones” fans wanted a more dramatic death for Jaime?

I didn’t follow it at all. [Pauses.] Obviously, I heard about it. I was aware of the petition for a new ending, which I thought was hilarious. I almost wanted to donate to that petition. HBO saying, “You’re right, so many people want it, we’re going to do it.” I think everyone had their own opinion. I find the world of fandom really interesting. Everyone wanted something specific and different from what they got. It’s a combination of — you imagine an ending; but also, I think if you’re a hardcore fan, it was really upsetting that it ended. You lived with this for eight seasons. There is still a massive community dedicated to “Game of Thrones.” I think there was a real fear that was going to go away. It had to end.

If you had to redo the ending, would you do anything differently?

Oh, how did it end? He was — no, it was fine. It was great. It was fine. How do you end that story? Let’s talk about this in 10 years, then you can talk about it. But now, I think it’s a little too recent.

https://variety.com/2020/film/news/nikolaj-coster-waldau-game-of-thrones-finale-1234734657/

How do you end that story? NOT THAT WAY.

[Ghostlydragon]

24 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Ah, the line about how viewers were disappointed with the ending because it ended. Whoever thought up that talking point, they sure wore it out trying to defend that mess.

No. Viewers wanted the characters to behave like human beings, how about that for a start. And for it to be meaningful and make sense. And not be something they wanted to forget.

Were you surprised that some “Game of Thrones” fans wanted a more dramatic death for Jaime?

I didn’t follow it at all. [Pauses.] Obviously, I heard about it. I was aware of the petition for a new ending, which I thought was hilarious. I almost wanted to donate to that petition. HBO saying, “You’re right, so many people want it, we’re going to do it.” I think everyone had their own opinion. I find the world of fandom really interesting. Everyone wanted something specific and different from what they got. It’s a combination of — you imagine an ending; but also, I think if you’re a hardcore fan, it was really upsetting that it ended. You lived with this for eight seasons. There is still a massive community dedicated to “Game of Thrones.” I think there was a real fear that was going to go away. It had to end.

If you had to redo the ending, would you do anything differently?

Oh, how did it end? He was — no, it was fine. It was great. It was fine. How do you end that story? Let’s talk about this in 10 years, then you can talk about it. But now, I think it’s a little too recent.

https://variety.com/2020/film/news/nikolaj-coster-waldau-game-of-thrones-finale-1234734657/

How do you end that story? NOT THAT WAY.

Omg I hate that attitude. So many people just don't get that we were mad that the show was complete garbage, not that it was ending.

People were mad that Futurama originally ended at season 4 because it ended. That show was amazing and we were mad that it was cancelled.

There's a difference.

[SeanF]

10 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Ah, the line about how viewers were disappointed with the ending because it ended. Whoever thought up that talking point, they sure wore it out trying to defend that mess.

No. Viewers wanted the characters to behave like human beings, how about that for a start. And for it to be meaningful and make sense. And not be something they wanted to forget.

Were you surprised that some “Game of Thrones” fans wanted a more dramatic death for Jaime?

I didn’t follow it at all. [Pauses.] Obviously, I heard about it. I was aware of the petition for a new ending, which I thought was hilarious. I almost wanted to donate to that petition. HBO saying, “You’re right, so many people want it, we’re going to do it.” I think everyone had their own opinion. I find the world of fandom really interesting. Everyone wanted something specific and different from what they got. It’s a combination of — you imagine an ending; but also, I think if you’re a hardcore fan, it was really upsetting that it ended. You lived with this for eight seasons. There is still a massive community dedicated to “Game of Thrones.” I think there was a real fear that was going to go away. It had to end.

If you had to redo the ending, would you do anything differently?

Oh, how did it end? He was — no, it was fine. It was great. It was fine. How do you end that story? Let’s talk about this in 10 years, then you can talk about it. But now, I think it’s a little too recent.

https://variety.com/2020/film/news/nikolaj-coster-waldau-game-of-thrones-finale-1234734657/

How do you end that story? NOT THAT WAY.

Regarding Jaime specifically, people were pissed off that his backstory was made pointless by his saying he cared nothing about the people of Kings Landing, and that his redemption arc went nowhere.

[Ser Drewy]

The Valonqar being a pile of rubble is still hilarious. 

This whole "upset that the show ended" angle is annoying, but I suspect it's because the post-S5 episodes still rode on the hypetrain until midway through the last season. No matter how shoddy, lazy, contradictory or dumb the writing got in S5/6/7 people still praised the show to high heaven. It's easy to hide behind the idea that the upset is over the show coming to an end because it was only the final season that the poor quality of the writing really became focused on in the mainstream media. Ranters had been pointing out these flaws for years, but the larger collective only really got on board around S8E3. 

[SeanF]

19 hours ago, Ser Drewy said:

The Valonqar being a pile of rubble is still hilarious. 

This whole "upset that the show ended" angle is annoying, but I suspect it's because the post-S5 episodes still rode on the hypetrain until midway through the last season. No matter how shoddy, lazy, contradictory or dumb the writing got in S5/6/7 people still praised the show to high heaven. It's easy to hide behind the idea that the upset is over the show coming to an end because it was only the final season that the poor quality of the writing really became focused on in the mainstream media. Ranters had been pointing out these flaws for years, but the larger collective only really got on board around S8E3. 

Season 8, Episode 3, was crucial.  It turned casual viewers against the show.  With a vast budget, it ought to be possible to create a decent battle scene.  The fact that it was so hard to see what was happening was unforgivable (leaving aside the stupid military tactics).

[Angel Eyes]

11 hours ago, SeanF said:

Season 8, Episode 3, was crucial.  It turned casual viewers against the show.  With a vast budget, it ought to be possible to create a decent battle scene.  The fact that it was so hard to see what was happening was unforgivable (leaving aside the stupid military tactics).

The latter was an intentional, artistic choice on the part of cinematographer Fabian Wagner, as the battle was intended to be confusing (as often battles are), as to make the viewer feel like they were actually there.

[SeanF]

22 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

The latter was an intentional, artistic choice on the part of cinematographer Fabian Wagner, as the battle was intended to be confusing (as often battles are), as to make the viewer feel like they were actually there.

That turned out well for them.

[Le Cygne]

16 minutes ago, SeanF said:

That turned out well for them.

Ha ha ha. The things people say to justify this mess. That was another funny one, the excuses for that.

All they had to do was make it a moonlit night.

Here's the cinematographer saying it's our fault:

But Fabian Wagner, the cinematographer behind the episode, claims the problem lies not with the production team but with viewers’ own television setups. “A lot of the problem is that a lot of people don’t know how to tune their TVs properly,” he says. “A lot of people also unfortunately watch it on small iPads, which in no way can do justice to a show like that anyway.”

Sophie Barrott, a videographer living in Manchester, says she only managed to make it 15 minutes through. “There's a fine line between creating atmosphere for your audience – who have waited eight seasons for a battle of light versus dark, the dead versus the living – to leaving them completely in the dark, straining their eyes beyond comprehension,” she says.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/game-of-thrones-too-dark-to-see

[kissdbyfire]

33 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

The latter was an intentional, artistic choice on the part of cinematographer Fabian Wagner, as the battle was intended to be confusing (as often battles are), as to make the viewer feel like they were actually there.

That sounds an awful lot like some lame ass pathetic excuse to me. Of course actual wars and battles must be extremely confusing and disorienting and frightening and all that. But we’re talking about a visual medium, where audiences should be able to see what is going on. There are shitloads of excellent war films that convey all the “confusion” of wars/battles w/o being an incoherent mess on top of being literally so dark that no one can see anything. I could probably list 10 or more off the top of my head, and I’m not even a war film buff. 

[Prince of the North]

Yeah...W. C. Fields really summed up things such as the many, many of the shortcomings of the abomination quite well when he uttered the famous phrase "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull[shit]."*

*With apologies to W. C. Fields, bracketed addition mine.  

[SeanF]

44 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

That sounds an awful lot like some lame ass pathetic excuse to me. Of course actual wars and battles must be extremely confusing and disorienting and frightening and all that. But we’re talking about a visual medium, where audiences should be able to see what is going on. There are shitloads of excellent war films that convey all the “confusion” of wars/battles w/o being an incoherent mess on top of being literally so dark that no one can see anything. I could probably list 10 or more off the top of my head, and I’m not even a war film buff. 

Writers like Bernard Cornwell, CS Forester, Paul Kearney, can superbly convey the confusion of battle, at the same time as giving you a good idea of what is going on. I'm sure it can be done on TV too (well, it has been done, with the Sharpe and Hornblower series, the Last Kingdom etc.)

[Count Balerion]

They didn't have to film it at night. They could have filmed during the day and edited it to look dark later. And it didn't have to be quite that dark. There were some cool lighting effects here and there, like the bllue fog. But in general, bleh.

[Prince of the North]

28 minutes ago, Count Balerion said:

They didn't have to film it at night. They could have filmed during the day and edited it to look dark later. And it didn't have to be quite that dark. There were some cool lighting effects here and there, like the bllue fog. But in general, bleh.

Don't let them fool you, they knew full well that darkness would hide a great deal of their shortcuts/laziness/ineptitude, etc.  That crap about "we wanted it that way and did it that way on purpose" is classic retconning/gaslighting (i.e. "Who ya gonna believe?  Yer lyin' eyes or us?")

[Count Balerion]

The darkness did in fact hide some of the poor tactics. I didn't notice them because I didn't notice much of anything (!). But it couldn't hide Azor Aharya.