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Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

The Fattest Leech

By The Fattest Leech,
in General (GoT)

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SeanF Council Member

SeanF

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41 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

:lol: their "INSTINCT"??? Were all these people on drugs?

Perhaps it was like the last months of the Third Reich, where the Nazi leadership were actually out of their minds on drink and drugs.

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Ghostlydragon Landed Knight

Ghostlydragon

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9 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

medieval world)

well the exact quote is this:

Hibberd: "German actress Sibel Kekilli paid out of pocket to fly to London for the opportunity to audition for Tyrion's wily prostitute lover Shae in person. After the meeting, however, Kekilli changed her mind about the role. The script pages she'd read during the scene were originally closer to the book's portrayal of Shae as a heartless opportunist, and she felt uncomfortable playing such a character opposite Dinklage."

 

- FCKAD, page 27

Isn't that how it works in the real world? The actor has to pay to get to an audition themselves? In England's non acting sector, we certainly don't get paid to travel for an interview for a different job :D

 

And yes, very shameful. I guess Shae is the first to start the "we rewrote the role to make it worthy of the actor's talents" plague of GoT. And she's not even that good an actress (or even that hot). I guess D&D really wanted her, in more ways that one B)

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Cas Stark Council Member

Cas Stark

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4 hours ago, SeanF said:

Perhaps it was like the last months of the Third Reich, where the Nazi leadership were actually out of their minds on drink and drugs.

That would account for the insane choice to film the most expensive segment in TV history by candlelight.

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Angel Eyes Council Member

Angel Eyes

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13 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

I'm not sure exactly how Shae was case in this; the actress said she "got the part" but then "didn't want to do it"...because she felt Shae's lines were too mean to Tyrion for being a dwarf.  D&D wrote her back a long letter begging her that "we'll rewrite Shae to be nicer"

Did Kekilli do an open audition for any role or another role?  It sounds like she didn't even like the way the script looked - is it that D&D found her from some other project?  They were so determined to use Kekilli that they were willing to self-admittedly change it into a different character.  What about Kekilli impressed them so much that they'd rewrite a character?

Wait...it says she paid out of pocket to fly to London specifically to audition for Shae, but then didn't like the script once she actually saw it (felt it was mocking dwarfs - but it's a non-PC medieval world)

well the exact quote is this:

Hibberd: "German actress Sibel Kekilli paid out of pocket to fly to London for the opportunity to audition for Tyrion's wily prostitute lover Shae in person. After the meeting, however, Kekilli changed her mind about the role. The script pages she'd read during the scene were originally closer to the book's portrayal of Shae as a heartless opportunist, and she felt uncomfortable playing such a character opposite Dinklage."

Sibel Kekilli: "When I got the part, my first reaction was I didn't want to do it. I said, "No, thank you!" I knew Peter Dinklage was a great actor, but I was thinking [based on the audition lines] that they wanted to make fun of little people - make fun of the situation. David and Dan sent me a beautiful letter saying, 'Please-please-please, you are our Shae. You did a great audition and we're going to change Shae a bit. We'll do it different than the books' and they convinced me".  

- FCKAD, page 27

Well, on the other hand GRRM has expressed approval for the portrayal of Shae (can't find exact article at the moment).

Edit: I think this is it.

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Nowy Tends Council Member

Nowy Tends

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2 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

I think this quote is a lie, and they’re badly attempting to cover up the truth:  “Benioff had the rights to the show, and he strong armed us into giving him total control“

Do you know this quote from Jean Cocteau*: "Puisque ces mystères me dépassent, feignons d'en être l'organisateur"?

(roughly translates into: Since these mysteries are beyond me, let's pretend to be the organizer.)

imho, that's exactly what HBO did. Through Hibberd's book they're trying to make us believe that they knew D&D weren't qualified for the job, but  they showed so muuuuch talent and a great instinct, we decided to trust them.

[The quote is often used in French politics, I'd be curious to know if it's used in other countries/cultures…]

* in Les Mariés de la Tour Eiffel, a "satiric ballet" created in 1921 with music of Darius Milhaud, Arthur Honegger, Francis Poulenc, Georges Auric, Germaine Taillefer… Typical "Belle Époque" creation.

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Lord Varys Council Member

Lord Varys

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From what I remember about the Shae situation, Kekilli was their choice for Shae before she auditioned considering they saw one of her movies before.

It is not that unusual that actors try to influence the part they are playing, especially when people really want to hire them.

However, the problem with the Shae plot has little to do with Shae character and basically with Tyrion no longer being an ugly, insecure, incel character whose misogyny basically first drives him into raping his wife after she has been gang-raped by daddy's guards and then later to control, abuse, and eventually murder prostitute-concubine.

They could have easily enough told that story ... and Kekilli could have played that well, considering her role in Die Fremde.

Where Shae is from and whether she has an accent or not is completely irrelevant as long as the gist of her story with Tyrion is maintained ... which wasn't done in the show.

And generally exploring Shae's side of the story would have been great in principle. George really dropped the ball by not giving Shae any sort of independent voice. We still have no clue what her feelings for Tyrion actually was - was he just a client for her? How did she truly feel about his sexual appetites and desires and fantasies? Why was she reluctant to his half-hearted efforts to find a good match for? Was this greed, ignorance, affection, fear, or all of the above?

We just have no clue because the author failed to give us a scene where, like we get them for, say, Varys, the curtain is raised for a moment and the true persona and the true feelings emerge for a moment. And that is bad writing on George's part so far - although his intention to revisit Shae's death in the future and Varys' role in all that could mean we will get a conversation where Shae's true motivations are finally revealed.

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Le Cygne Council Member

Le Cygne

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A woman on this show can't even diss her murderer. Benioff and Weiss and Cogman repeatedly forced women to honor the men who screwed them over.

Tyrion kidnapped Shae, he placed her in mortal danger for his own convenience explicitly defying his father, he refused to run away with her when she begged him and he had enough gold to buy a ship in his hands, and instead he forcibly married a traumatized young hostage.

What they did to Shae, they did to Sansa and Dany, too.

They made Shae honor Tyrion, even though he murdered her. They made Sansa honor Tyrion, even though he forcibly married her (they also made her honor Littlefinger and Theon after they gave her to Ramsay). They made Dany honor Tyrion, even though he conspired to murder her.

What do these three women have in common? They all rejected Tyrion.

Of course they don't care about a woman's perspective, and HBO is just as bad. And yet, for all the money they raked in, the audience wants to forget they ever saw it, so... maybe, just maybe, that's not the way to do things. The book is hilarious, and just makes them all look worse than ever.

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Le Cygne Council Member

Le Cygne

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23 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

David Benioff: "George created a world so rich that you're coming into the story 95 percent of the way into it. So much happened in the past - like the Targaryen invasion of Westeros - and you need to understand that stuff in order for the current story to make sense. Books have a more elegant way of putting backstory in. On television, you either do a flashback or boring exposition. So one of George's questions was: 'How are you going to let the audience know all this stuff that's so crucial?'

I don't remember what our answer was. We probably came up with some bullshit."

- Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon, page 12
 

The very definition of entitlement. Blow off what you are incapable of doing (writing) while at the same time trashing it (as if flashbacks and exposition are bad things) and say the quiet part in the open (that they came up with bullshit instead).

As for elegant backstory on screen, of course it's possible. It happens all the time. Many examples come to mind. Other writers do a fine job, BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. Citizen Kane was mostly backstory. It's a masterpiece.

Anyway thanks for these excerpts, they are hilarious!

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