Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[kissdbyfire]

20 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Oh yes, they were so spiteful that women in the audience liked these characters.

Benioff is beside himself with jealousy here. HE made him kill his cousin. In the books, he protected his cousin.

"The real Jaime Lannister isn't the good looking, charming rogue. The real Jaime is a monster, he's a beast, and [killing] is what he loves to do."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxJSAmS8Wvg

And once again, HE made him do this to Cersei. It was the opposite in the books, and GRRM said so.

"You are right to be disturbed by it. I think it was a brutal scene... It felt to us when we were writing it like this is something the character was going to do at that moment. And it was a horrible thing to do."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfvVluNxujc

They always use that excuse. It feels to us like this would happen. As if they didn't put the characters in these positions they'd never be in the first place.

Ugh, I had deleted this rubbish from my brain... Jaime killing his cousin just because (he is a monster!), and the sept rape. Ugh, ugh, ugh. 

Was the scene in the White Tower in the show? I can’t remember... where Cersei tries to use sex to get Jaime to do what she wants, and he turns her down? 

[Le Cygne]

4 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Ugh, I had deleted this rubbish from my brain... Jaime killing his cousin just because (he is a monster!), and the sept rape. Ugh, ugh, ugh. 

Was the scene in the White Tower in the show? I can’t remember... where Cersei tries to use sex to get Jaime to do what she wants, and he turns her down? 

They did the opposite there, too. Instead of turning her down and turning a new page in the White Book, he throws the book to the floor and screws his sister on the table!

God, they hated him. Almost as much as Sansa.

[SeanF]

1 minute ago, Le Cygne said:

They did the opposite there, too. Instead of turning her down and turning a new page in the White Book, he throws the book to the floor and screws his sister on the table!

God, they hated him. Almost as much as Sansa.

Did they hate him though?

The things that most people think of as bad ( murder, slavery, rape) appear to be the things that D & D think of as good, or at any rate "lawful neutral."

 

[kissdbyfire]

2 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

They did the opposite there, too. Instead of turning her down and turning a new page in the White Book, he throws the book to the floor and screws his sister on the table!

God, they hated him. Almost as much as Sansa.

Shocking. /s

So, basically, they did the same as they had w/ the sept scene. Yes, they hated Jaime almost as much as Sansa. They had a big hate boner for Stannis as well. Hate boners for so many characters. No wonder the whole thing feels like a hugely dismal pile of poop, it’s all about the hate, the vile monsters, the betrayals. It’s so clear they really don’t understand the story at all... Because Martin’s story has those elements, but they are not what’s the story is about. The show, on the other hand, is only about that, and all about that. Honour gets you killed, being a nasty psycho perv gets you the rewards.

[Cas Stark]

25 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Did they hate him though?

The things that most people think of as bad ( murder, slavery, rape) appear to be the things that D & D think of as good, or at any rate "lawful neutral."

 

Yes, I think they hated him, for the same reasons they hated Kit...good looking actor.  They turned his redemption arc into him repeatedly begging Cersei to fuck him, then the rape/not rape, and multiple times where he becomes stupid...never quite as stupid as they made Jon, but still.  

[SeanF]

7 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Yes, I think they hated him, for the same reasons they hated Kit...good looking actor.  They turned his redemption arc into him repeatedly begging Cersei to fuck him, then the rape/not rape, and multiple times where he becomes stupid...never quite as stupid as they made Jon, but still.  

I think they were trying to be grimdark, like Joe Abercrombie or K J Parker, without realising that can only work with excellent writing, and a sense of humour that is black as pitch.

[Cas Stark]

5 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I think they were trying to be grimdark, like Joe Abercrombie or K J Parker, without realising that can only work with excellent writing, and a sense of humour that is black as pitch.

That gives them too much credit.  We know for a fact that they mocked Kit, that they purposely stole the peak of his story--defeating the Others--for a surprise [which shows how little they cared about the story/narrative/themes...and shame on the critics for sanctioning that stupid plot point as great], it would not be unreasonable to think they made Jon Snow a total dumbass in the last two season because they were jealous of Kit Harrington.  So, why not NCW also? 

I think their worldview IS dark/nihilistic and this is why they framed so many brutal moments--SS killing their own families, Sansa feeding Ramsay to his dogs and smirking, Arya gouging out eyes, all of Dany's killings until the end--as 'good' and heroic'....and why the good guys were turned into hapless boobs, but I also think GRRM is a nihilist who just won't admit it. 

[Dalinar]

2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

That gives them too much credit.  We know for a fact that they mocked Kit, that they purposely stole the peak of his story--defeating the Others--for a surprise [which shows how little they cared about the story/narrative/themes...and shame on the critics for sanctioning that stupid plot point as great], it would not be unreasonable to think they made Jon Snow a total dumbass in the last two season because they were jealous of Kit Harrington.  So, why not NCW also? 

I think their worldview IS dark/nihilistic and this is why they framed so many brutal moments--SS killing their own families, Sansa feeding Ramsay to his dogs and smirking, Arya gouging out eyes, all of Dany's killings until the end--as 'good' and heroic'....and why the good guys were turned into hapless boobs, but I also think GRRM is a nihilist who just won't admit it. 

Totally agree on the the part abut D&D. As for GRRM being a nihilist: he does not have to admit it. His whole book series up until now is nihilistic gore to the fullest.

[Le Cygne]

4 hours ago, SeanF said:

I think they were trying to be grimdark, like Joe Abercrombie or K J Parker, without realising that can only work with excellent writing, and a sense of humour that is black as pitch.

I don't think they tried at all. They are lazy and like they said, they didn't know what they were doing, so like they said, they just came up with some "bullshit." Take them at their words.

They made Tyrion their self-insert, and had issues with women and the men that women liked (and preferred over themselves). It was like revenge of the nerds mixed with playing dolls.

I agree they don't have a sense of humor, they also don't have maturity or compassion, or any interest in humanity.  So there was no social commentary on what was happening in the era.

There was no statement, they were just spoiled brats trashing their toys.

[kissdbyfire]

3 hours ago, SeanF said:

I think they were trying to be grimdark, like Joe Abercrombie or K J Parker, without realising that can only work with excellent writing, and a sense of humour that is black as pitch.

Were they really? I think not, I think that’s giving them way too much undeserved credit. I think it’s simpler and sadder than that... they simply didn’t get it, any of it. They didn’t understand the story, like, not at all. They thought the story is a nihilist fest because there are horrible things in it. And then they turned it up to 11 18, because their mentality is “more is better”. So, this really only shows that they absolutely didn’t understand any of it, and that their interpretation is deeply flawed and completely shallow. 

[Le Cygne]

5 hours ago, SeanF said:

Did they hate him though?

The things that most people think of as bad ( murder, slavery, rape) appear to be the things that D & D think of as good, or at any rate "lawful neutral."

Yes, they hated him. They hated his guts. They made it personal.

They erased his redemption arc. Instead of turning away from Cersei, they made him her sex slave, they had him groveling at her feet for the entire series. He threw his life away because she was "just a girl who wanted the comfort of a man."

On the show, he was Cersei's accessory. He wasn't that in the books at all.

They were acting out their own frustrations on women on the men women admired. They made Ramsay a badass and gave Jon a little penis. They made Sansa honor Littlefinger and Sandor throw his life away. They made Tyrion a saint and Jaime a kinslayer and rapist.

[Cas Stark]

2 hours ago, Dalinar said:

Totally agree on the the part abut D&D. As for GRRM being a nihilist: he does not have to admit it. His whole book series up until now is nihilistic gore to the fullest.

Yeah, back when I was a sweet summer child I believed GRRM when he said the end would be 'bittersweet'...a  normal person's idea of bittersweet GRRM idea is more along the lines of calling Hellraiser mild gore.

[SeanF]

11 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Yes, they hated him. They hated his guts. They made it personal.

They erased his redemption arc. Instead of turning away from Cersei, they made him her sex slave, they had him groveling at her feet for the entire series. He threw his life away because she was "just a girl who wanted the comfort of a man."

On the show, he was Cersei's accessory. He wasn't that in the books at all.

They were acting out their own frustrations on women on the men women admired. They made Ramsay a badass and gave Jon a little penis. They made Sansa honor Littlefinger and Sandor throw his life away. They made Tyrion a saint and Jaime a kinslayer and rapist.

I pity their wives.

[The Dragon Demands]

yeah

[The Dragon Demands]

yeah

[The Dragon Demands]

yeah

[The Dragon Demands]

yeah

[Le Cygne]

42 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Chapter 3 - the failed pilot episode

George R.R. Martin: “They were doing a faithful adaptation, but I knew they’d have to cut some things. The biggest thing was Dan and David called me up and had the idea of eliminating Rickon, the youngest of the Stark children, because he didn’t do much in the first book. I said I had important plans for him, so they kept him.”

- Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon, page 37

So yet another big thing they didn't do.

Hmmm, maybe Rickon is king in the end. Very important plans! And they just brought him back to kill him, and wouldn't even let him talk (or Osha). They were punishing Natalia Tena. (And yes, they are that petty.)

Just like Rome and Spartacus: Blood and Sand, Game of Thrones is well-known for its bare breasts and sex. In each episode there is at least one nude or semi-naked woman yet the male characters are rarely seen unclothed. Does Tena think there is a disparity in the nudity ratio between men and women?

‘There’s that in everything in the world. I think it’s really unfair, every actor, any actress has had her tits out. Every single actress I know. Blokes it’s like, let’s see some cock. Do you know what I mean? Let’s make it more even.’

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/2012/06/13/interview-with-game-of-thrones-star-natalia-tena

"The calibre of writing towards the end and the plots and everything that happens and how they wrapped it up compared to any other season, any other bit, it just feels like it's been written by different people. It doesn't make sense, for me."

Tena added: "I was a few glasses of wine in when I watched it. I'd binge-watched the whole thing, but I ended up... my boyfriend had to leave the boat because I was ranting for an hour at him about how much I didn't like it. And then I rang my friend to rant to him."

https://www.esquire.com/uk/latest-news/a28656088/game-of-thrones-natalia-tena-angry-about-the-ending-as-you/

[kissdbyfire]

21 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Nicolaj Coster-Waldau (Jaime): "Nobody knew what they were doing or what the hell this was. During King Robert's arrival I remember finding the whole thing ridiculous. The absurdity of doing this parallel universe with these very noble men. It's a very fine balance between being serious and believing it and just being cosplayers. There was certainly not a sense that this was going to be some game-changer for anyone. But we had a lot of fun."

Mark Addy (Robert Baratheon): "We were trying to establish the rules and order of this new world. In the Winterfell courtyard scene, nobody kneeled when the king arrived in the first pilot. You can't play being the king. You can't display 'look at how powerful I am.' People have to give you that by showing subservience. It has to be afforded to you by others. In the reshoot, everybody kneeled. It makes a huge difference in terms of establishing who's in charge."

- Fire Cannot Kill A Dragon, page 38

Benioff & Weiss had no idea how to work in a visual format...but insisted on micromanaging the direction and cinematography

 

39 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Chapter 3 - the failed pilot episode

George R.R. Martin: “They were doing a faithful adaptation, but I knew they’d have to cut some things. The biggest thing was Dan and David called me up and had the idea of eliminating Rickon, the youngest of the Stark children, because he didn’t do much in the first book. I said I had important plans for him, so they kept him.”

- Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon, page 37

They kept him b/c Martin told them he had important plans for Rickon, and then they did what they did to the character!

Their total cluelessness is fucking priceless!

[The Dragon Demands]

yeah