Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[Angel Eyes]

3 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Fun fact:  over on my youtube channel, the day the episode aired I made a video about "How old is Arya in her sex scene?" - it was the MOST googled thing that day. Worldwide.  

And I explained that while the TV show's timeline suffered from careless neglect, it nonetheless generally followed the pattern that one TV season equals one year - so no, even I, a critic of the TV show, agreed with their claim that "Arya is 18 in Season 8" (as she was 11 in Season 1).  Mostly it was me remarking on "she isn't underage anymore, so why are you holding her up to a double standard compared to her brothers Robb and Jon, who had sex when they were younger than that in Seasons 1 and 2? (both 17)."

anyway, the "Fun Fact" is that youtube analytical tools let you see what percentage of views you get from which country - and for this video, "India" was the top non-USA one - DRASTICALLY out of proportion to what it normally gets, where it isn't even in the top ten.  

It turns out India heavily censors sex scenes in the show, and I think they cut out the whole Arya/Gendry scene to the point they were confused what even happened.  Other countries edit that kind of thing (China, Middle-eastern countries, etc.)

But it's always interesting how different countries localize stuff.

Trivia: trying to use my own analytics across my whole channel with hundreds of thousands of views, the top 5 "Countries" are USA, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, and Germany.  Logically the Anglosphere would rank high on an English-language channel.  The runners up are usually "Scandinavia + the Netherlands", Poland, and Brazil.  Spanish-language is probably high when seen as a whole,, but it is of course divided between Spain and all the Latin American countries.

Absolute bottom of the heap is Turkmenistan (they don't list North Korea).  

I think you mean 2 and 3, since Robb met Talisa in Season 2 and Jon had sex with Ygritte in the cave in Season 3.

[The Dragon Demands]

yeah

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

In general: he manages to take out the Stark powerbase in the North in a matter of weeks, all by the seat of his pants.

• He cons his way into an advisory position for Theon when the latter takes Winterfell and Theon is apparently too dumb to think he might be a threat.
• Rodrik apparently isn't suspicious that there's a Bolton force coming despite the fact that he supposedly killed the person who would be commanding it. Rodrik's force, plus any other forces sent to relieve Winterfell proceed to get stomped into the ground by the Bolton soldiers led by Ramsay.
• He's slowly gained more and more power as the series has progressed, not unlike Littlefinger. Unlike most bastards in the books Ramsay gets to be legitimized while the more heroic types (Jon Snow, Gendry) are forced to stay in line. And unless GRRM has him face a comeuppance in the next books he's likely to stay that way. It's like watching the Roadrunner, if the Roadrunner liked to flay people.

I think that remains to be seen.  I would not be surprised if Roose was just making use of Ramsay, before finally discarding him.  He'd make an excellent sacrificial offering, if Roose has to bargain with his enemies in the North.

[Cas Stark]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

I think that remains to be seen.  I would not be surprised if Roose was just making use of Ramsay, before finally discarding him.  He'd make an excellent sacrificial offering, if Roose has to bargain with his enemies in the North.

I hope so, I will be disappointed if Ramsay gets the better of Roose in the books....but then his behavior is already a little tough to understand, he hates child heirs, okay, but he also knows Ramsay will never hold the North...so why bother?  And why let him run wild with fake Arya and Theon?

I didn't mind the Arya/Gendry sex scene, there is nothing objectionable about it at all, other than the bad writing and that there wasn't much groundwork laid for it in the show.  In the books we get plenty of little asides about Arya growing up and how people around her are beginning to see her differently than she sees herself.  None of that existed in the show, although some of that is also just Maise, even now at 23 she could pass for 15 or 16.

 

[Nowy Tends]

2 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

But it's always interesting how different countries localize stuff.

Trivia: trying to use my own analytics across my whole channel ith hundreds of thousands of views, the top 5 "Countries" are USA, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, and Germany.  Logically the Anglosphere would rank high on an English-language channel.  The runners up are usually "Scandinavia + the Netherlands", Poland, and Brazil.  Spanish-language is probably high when seen as a whole,, but it is of course divided between Spain and all the Latin American countries.
 

I'm a bit surprised, as I thought the "Is Arya 18 when she has sex" thing was mostly a North America thing.

Age of consent is 14 in Germany, Austria, Italy, etc. It's 15 in France, Denmark, Greece, Poland, Romania, etc. It's 16 in the UK, Russia, Spain, etc.

Arya's age in this scene/context is the last thing that could be of concern to an average European.

That been said I'm glad your video was widely googled and watched.

[SeanF]

39 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

I'm a bit surprised, as I thought the "Is Arya 18 when she has sex" thing was mostly a North America thing.

Age of consent is 14 in Germany, Austria, Italy, etc. It's 15 in France, Denmark, Greece, Poland, Romania, etc. It's 16 in the UK, Russia, Spain, etc.

Arya's age in this scene/context is the last thing that could be of concern to an average European.

That been said I'm glad your video was widely googled and watched.

In the books, the attitudes of much older men towards Arya, Sansa, and Dany are pretty disturbing.

Some US State laws are pretty strange.  I read some awful story of a woman who is a registered sex offender in Georgia, because at the age of 16, she gave oral sex to a 15 year old boy.

[Angel Eyes]

On 12/16/2020 at 3:53 PM, SeanF said:

In the books, the attitudes of much older men towards Arya, Sansa, and Dany are pretty disturbing.

Some US State laws are pretty strange.  I read some awful story of a woman who is a registered sex offender in Georgia, because at the age of 16, she gave oral sex to a 15 year old boy.

And yet in Sansa's case it's romanticized (read: The Hound). That's something from the novels that I can't really understand about Sansa, outside of the idea that Sansa's damaged enough that she's trying to hold onto any scrap of kindness even though the person responsible for that act belittles and bullies her almost every time they interact.

[Count Balerion]

10 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Just to remember something - there was another sex scene with Jaime and Brienne, right? I'm not imagining that, no?

don't remind me! that love affair lasted about half an hour. westeros (or preposteros) is weirdly hollywood in its mores.

[Count Balerion]

17 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

did Hibberd proofread this one chapter to the next? Or is it becoming obvious even to casual readers that the "faces with no dialogue convey everything" line is in almost every chapter?

i don't get the impression that it's proofread, or edited, at all.

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 hour ago, Nowy Tends said:

I'm a bit surprised, as I thought the "Is Arya 18 when she has sex" thing was mostly a North America thing.

Age of consent is 14 in Germany, Austria, Italy, etc. It's 15 in France, Denmark, Greece, Poland, Romania, etc. It's 16 in the UK, Russia, Spain, etc.

Arya's age in this scene/context is the last thing that could be of concern to an average European.

That been said I'm glad your video was widely googled and watched.

Like SeanF mentioned, in many states in the US, the age of consent is 16 or 17, with each state varying on how far apart in age two people can be for the relationship to be considered "legal." Even though the national age of consent in lower in the UK, they have laws forbidding the depiction of sex on TV for characters under the age of 16. In the US, the characters can be any age, but the actors usually have to be 18 or older.  I have no idea what the protocol is in other countries.

57 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

And yet in Sansa's case it's romanticized (read: The Hound). That's something from the novels that I can't really understand about Sansa, outside of the idea that Sansa's damaged enough that she's trying to hold onto any scrap of kindness even thought the person responsible for that act belittles and bullies her almost every time they interact.

George said that he originally intended for each book to span the period of a few years, so I think when he first started writing Sansa/Hound, he probably figured that she'd be well into her teens by the Battle of the Blackwater. 

 

[Angel Eyes]

2 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

 

George said that he originally intended for each book to span the period of a few years, so I think when he first started writing Sansa/Hound, he probably figured that she'd be well into her teens by the Battle of the Blackwater. 

 

It still feels very off to me, even without the gap in age.

[Count Balerion]

or if the book *is* proofread, it's minimally.

[BlackLightning]

On 12/10/2020 at 10:51 AM, Cas Stark said:

Yes.  Dany becomes a villain and is killed 100%.  Jon returns to the wall 100%.  Bran becomes king 100%.  Arya leaves Westeros 98%.  Sansa becomes queen 95%.  Tyrion is back on top 100%. Jamie and Cersei die together 98%.  

*cue the Olenna Tyrell gif*

"Nonsense!"

[Angel Eyes]

19 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

I agree that he got lucky and called it "cunning", though the fact that most of the North's armies were in the south made it plausible to me.

As for Rodrik not questioning the Bolton force, I'll accept that he was desperate due to Winterfell being captured so they took him by surprise.  

I think that's the point with Ramsay, as per Roose's warning in book 5 - which the TV show ignored! - "You're not smart for betraying people, it worked at first, but now no one will ever trust you again, and you're out of tricks."

He said something similar in the show in Season 6:

Quote

If you acquire a reputation as a mad dog, you'll be treated as a mad dog. Taken out back and slaughtered for pig feed.

 

[Angel Eyes]

21 hours ago, SeanF said:

I think that remains to be seen.  I would not be surprised if Roose was just making use of Ramsay, before finally discarding him.  He'd make an excellent sacrificial offering, if Roose has to bargain with his enemies in the North.

That's if we get anything else in the books.

[BlackLightning]

2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

That's if we get anything else in the books.

Have a little more faith than that.

I'm sure that we'll get The Winds of Winter eventually. Whether or not we end up getting A Dream of Spring is a different story but I'm sure we'll see the first "half" of The Winds of Winter at the very least.

[The Dragon Demands]

yeah

[The Dragon Demands]

yeah

[BlackLightning]

5 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

But the invented Sansa rape and Dorne stuff weren't enough to make them question this?  When they HAD NOT run out of books yet?

I knew that the books were going to end VERY differently the moment it became clear that:

• there was no Lady Stoneheart
• there was no Aegon
• they had decided to drop an atomic bomb on the Dornish plotlines (yes, plotlines as in more than one) when they could've easily put a band-aid on it.
• Ramsay caught zero flack for anything he did

I mean, the Sansa stuff was truly and horrifically bizarre and the depowering of all the Starks except for Bran was irritating. But Lady Stoneheart was enough for me and Dorne confirmed it even more. The final nail was put into the coffin sometime in the beginning of season 6 when Ramsay not only caught zero flack for anything he did but started getting praised for his atrocities. I think he had literally betrayed and murdered his father in broad daylight in front of other people (after his father publicly declared his undying love for him) and no one even raised their eyebrows.

[The Dragon Demands]

yeah