Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[SeanF]

14 hours ago, divica said:

This is one of the biggest failures of the show.

Something like the LOTR movies created a fandom and people watched those movies yearly for 10 to 15 years. LOTR became a simbol for fatansy projects and made people want to read the books despite knowing the story from the movies.

 

GOT did the exact oposite. It killed it fandom. Very few people want to re-watch the show. At most it became a symbol about what not to do. And if it brought more fans for the books it is people that hope the book story is diferent than the show. However, on the whole I would risk that more people lost interest in the books overall.

People still discuss the show, but only in terms of how bad it became.

[Angel Eyes]

20 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I agree.  The terrible, and stupidly short, final season, combined with the terrible and short season 7 and the poorer quality from 5 onward, killed the show for rewatching and even probably for new viewers.  A good, even a high end mediocre ending I am sure we would have seen tons of blogs and articles about introducing my father/mother/sister/husband/wife to GOT during the pandemic....or 'I rewatched GOT during the pandemic and here are my new insights' type of stories, as well, it would have continued to be a bonanza for HBO.  Instead, it has fallen totally off of everyone's radar.  

 

Sometimes I wonder how things would have gone if Seasons 7 and 8 had the usual complement of episodes.

Also, does anyone happen to know what happened with Alexander Siddig? He was apparently contracted to do 4 episodes in Season 6, yet only did one.

[Cas Stark]

54 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Sometimes I wonder how things would have gone if Seasons 7 and 8 had the usual complement of episodes.

Also, does anyone happen to know what happened with Alexander Siddig? He was apparently contracted to do 4 episodes in Season 6, yet only did one.

Better.  Even with the poor attention to detail, lack of plot continuity, etc. if they had done 10 episodes per season that is about 30% more content, I can't believe that would not have improved things.  I think with Siddig they overreacted to the bad reviews about the Dorne plot and so they killed him and the rest of that 'plot' early...which was dumb, since he was at least a good actor unlike the SS.  However, I always thought their initial plan to not do any Dorne stuff was the right call. 

[Count Balerion]

 

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

Sometimes I wonder how things would have gone if Seasons 7 and 8 had the usual complement of episodes.

Also, does anyone happen to know what happened with Alexander Siddig? He was apparently contracted to do 4 episodes in Season 6, yet only did one.

You see, I think there was a perfectly decent plot to be had, of Daenerys' relationship with the Starks gradually breaking down over their conflicting political objectives, and Jon being torn between the two.  And neither party would need to be vilified in the process.  But it would require more episodes, and competent writers.

[Tagganaro]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

You see, I think there was a perfectly decent plot to be had, of Daenerys' relationship with the Starks gradually breaking down over their conflicting political objectives, and Jon being torn between the two.  And neither party would need to be vilified in the process.  But it would require more episodes, and competent writers.

I've said this before as well, there was actually a compelling plot of Dany being angry and spiteful towards everyone.  She sacrificed everything to help Jon and defeat the WW, lost her most trusted advisor in Mormont, watched Cersei murder her best friend, got betrayed by Varys (for no apparent reason besides he just like Jon more), and then got rejected by Jon to top it off.  

There was possibly some good compelling stuff there, the issue was like there was just one scene of Dany being jealous of Jon after the Battle at Winterfell, and then the stuff with Varys/Jon rejecting Dany/Cersei killing Missandei= Mad Queen Dany had like only 1 episode to happen.  So yeah, many more episodes were required to do this properly, and honestly have to agree I'm not sure the writers could pull it off anyway given their struggles creating storylines not in the books.  

 

[SeanF]

9 hours ago, Tagganaro said:

I've said this before as well, there was actually a compelling plot of Dany being angry and spiteful towards everyone.  She sacrificed everything to help Jon and defeat the WW, lost her most trusted advisor in Mormont, watched Cersei murder her best friend, got betrayed by Varys (for no apparent reason besides he just like Jon more), and then got rejected by Jon to top it off.  

There was possibly some good compelling stuff there, the issue was like there was just one scene of Dany being jealous of Jon after the Battle at Winterfell, and then the stuff with Varys/Jon rejecting Dany/Cersei killing Missandei= Mad Queen Dany had like only 1 episode to happen.  So yeah, many more episodes were required to do this properly, and honestly have to agree I'm not sure the writers could pull it off anyway given their struggles creating storylines not in the books.  

 

Character development - for D & D - meant abrupt changes in behaviour (Dany,   Shae, Doreah, Ellaria) with viewers being expected to fill in the gaps.

[Le Cygne]

9 hours ago, SeanF said:

Character development - for D & D - meant abrupt changes in behaviour (Dany,   Shae, Doreah, Ellaria) with viewers being expected to fill in the gaps.

Arya, Bran, Sansa, Jaime, ... the list of abrupt changes is endless. And it's impossible to fill in the gap to absurdity.

The show was unintentional farce. If only they had played it for laughs, but they didn't have that ability, either.

[Ghostlydragon]

2 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Arya, Bran, Sansa, Jaime, ... the list of abrupt changes is endless. And it's impossible to fill in the gap to absurdity.

The show was unintentional farce. If only they had played it for laughs, but they didn't have that ability, either.

I watched the bells 2 weeks ago for the first time since it aired. Laughing at the stupidity; e.g. people bring terrible swordsmen, tyrion getting away with getting Varys killed and dragonfire exploding walls and being so massive it's clearly changed from wildfire, Dany burning the towers around the red keep and then near her own army the next, Euron being so happy to kill Jaime Lannister even though nobody would know it and much more; was the only way to enjoy it.

[Angel Eyes]

6 hours ago, Ghostlydragon said:

I watched the bells 2 weeks ago for the first time since it aired. Laughing at the stupidity; e.g. people bring terrible swordsmen, tyrion getting away with getting Varys killed and dragonfire exploding walls and being so massive it's clearly changed from wildfire, Dany burning the towers around the red keep and then near her own army the next, Euron being so happy to kill Jaime Lannister even though nobody would know it and much more; was the only way to enjoy it.

And during that scene, Drogon burns down a tower and flies through the fireball. Somehow, Daenerys still has clothes.

[BlackLightning]

On 1/3/2021 at 2:05 PM, Count Balerion said:

may not come as a surprise to ppl in this thread; but certainly interesting ... Game of Thrones Ending Cost HBO Half of Its Adult Viewers | CBR

Duh!

Some things just go without saying.

I, for one, have absolutely zero interest in watching House of the Dragon. If I hear that the first season is very good, then I might read the synopses for the second season.

On 1/3/2021 at 2:15 PM, divica said:

This is one of the biggest failures of the show.

Something like the LOTR movies created a fandom and people watched those movies yearly for 10 to 15 years. LOTR became a simbol for fatansy projects and made people want to read the books despite knowing the story from the movies.

Exactly.

Same goes for Harry Potter. The Walking Dead, if it continues the upswing it has been experiencing since 2018, will do the same.

For shame for Game of Thrones.

On 1/3/2021 at 4:37 PM, Cas Stark said:

I agree.  The horrifically terrible, and stupidly short, final season, combined with the terrible and short season 7 and the poorer quality from 5 onward, killed the show for rewatching and even probably for new viewers.  A good, even a high end mediocre ending I am sure we would have seen tons of blogs and articles about introducing my father/mother/sister/husband/wife to GOT during the pandemic....or 'I rewatched GOT during the pandemic and here are my new insights' type of stories, as well, it would have continued to be a bonanza for HBO.  Instead, it has fallen totally off of everyone's radar.  

 

Season 7 was bad but it had more than just a few very strong scenes. Don't misunderstand me: it was terrible but nowhere near as bad as season 8.

If season 8 been halfway decent (which was, in fact, very feasible and fairly inexpensive even after the problems of season 5-7), then it would've been mostly worth it. It still wouldn't have been a great show but it would've been rewatchable and could've continued to flourish in the future with adaptations of Dunk and Egg, Fire and Blood, the She-Wolves of Winterfell and whatever the hell happens in Yi Ti and Asshai.

But nope!

Curtains.

On 1/4/2021 at 1:07 PM, Angel Eyes said:

Sometimes I wonder how things would have gone if Seasons 7 and 8 had the usual complement of episodes.

Only slightly better.

To be honest, they did not have to fit both A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons into one season. They didn't even try to do that with A Storm of Swords. Why try to cram two books into one season when they had just exercised the power and will to take two seasons to tell the story of one book?

The fact that they couldn't arrive at very logical conclusion tells me that making season 7 and 8 longer wouldn't have changed much of anything.

There is enough source material in A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons and the closely-associated sample chapters to make at least two seasons. Three seasons if you want to really milk A Dance with Dragons for all that its worth. All they really had to do was create their own ending based off of the previous seasons alone. Once they finished adapting A Dance with Dragons, they didn't need GRRM's notes anymore.

Again that requires logic and deductive reasoning...in addition to creativity. Shame!

[SeanF]

13 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

And during that scene, Drogon burns down a tower and flies through the fireball. Somehow, Daenerys still has clothes.

One thing that had me scratching her head is why she never wears armour or safety chains.

[Cas Stark]

I thought at the time and I still think that a romance w/Jon was a mistake, even if somehow GRRM intends this to happen in the books, which seems a long shot, they did not have time to create a believable romantic arc, the two actors had zero chemistry together, and the clunky ending they must have conceived of as high tragedy [kiss then kill] played like bad camp.  7 more episodes would have given time for Dany's disillusionment to grow into paranoia and Jon's betrayal would have been less soap opera dumb.  We should have seen Dany losing it for an entire season at least, so that would have been 8 or 9 episodes of her unraveling, not whatever it was, done in the space of 2 eps I think. 

[Le Cygne]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

One thing that had me scratching her head is why she never wears armour or safety chains.

Continuity is for 8th graders.

She's indestructible for nearly 8 seasons, until a gaping fool tricks her. Her clothing, however, was destructible for boob opps. She's naked in the season 1 and season 5 fires (but has indestructible hair later, because that's hotter) because Benioff and Weiss wanted to see her boobs.

Let's do the audience filling in the gaps thing. Maybe she became one with Drogon, and thus assumed his characteristics. But they never showed that, and they wouldn't let her honor the man she named him for. Her sun and stars didn't warrant a mention in the end.

Only a fool could have missed it in the books (so they might have an excuse after all), where she honors Drogo constantly, she wears his lion pelt and thanks him for making her khaleesi and encouraging her. And there's all that talk about meeting in death, even on the show, but that meant something, so they forgot.

All that meaningful stuff was the GRRM story so it wasn't what was "best for the show." And yet, it was on the show in the beginning, however bungled. You see, it's best for a main character to have no last words. Stab stab stab, oh I see I'm dying, let me say... NOTHING. Like all the good stories do.

[SeanF]

22 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I thought at the time and I still think that a romance w/Jon was a mistake, even if somehow GRRM intends this to happen in the books, which seems a long shot, they did not have time to create a believable romantic arc, the two actors had zero chemistry together, and the clunky ending they must have conceived of as high tragedy [kiss then kill] played like bad camp.  7 more episodes would have given time for Dany's disillusionment to grow into paranoia and Jon's betrayal would have been less soap opera dumb.  We should have seen Dany losing it for an entire season at least, so that would have been 8 or 9 episodes of her unraveling, not whatever it was, done in the space of 2 eps I think. 

By compressing it into two episodes, paranoia became presience. You aren't paranoid if the people around you are working to take you down. I got the impression there were dozens of missing scenes between her and the Starks, and her and her advisors.

[Cas Stark]

12 minutes ago, SeanF said:

By compressing it into two episodes, paranoia became presience. You aren't paranoid if the people around you are working to take you down. I got the impression there were dozens of missing scenes between her and the Starks, and her and her advisors.

 Or, I mean, why is Varys trying to fucking poison her before she's even done anything? Dragons being destructive cannot have come as a surprise to him.   The same dude who sad idly by while her father burned people alive and plotted the destruction of the capital city.  But, OMG Khaleesi is acting like Tywin Lannister so Must. Poison. Now.  But, at least they allowed Varys to recruit allies to his plot no matter how dumb, unlike Littlefinger who did nothing but blab to Sansa for two seasons, no spies, nothing, just leaning on the walls and tgalking trash. 

[SeanF]

5 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

 Or, I mean, why is Varys trying to fucking poison her before she's even done anything? Dragons being destructive cannot have come as a surprise to him.   The same dude who sad idly by while her father burned people alive and plotted the destruction of the capital city.  But, OMG Khaleesi is acting like Tywin Lannister so Must. Poison. Now.  But, at least they allowed Varys to recruit allies to his plot no matter how dumb, unlike Littlefinger who did nothing but blab to Sansa for two seasons, no spies, nothing, just leaning on the walls and tgalking trash. 

It's so stupid.  He's trying to kill her before Cersei has been defeated, which would leave Cersei's opponents without the use of Drogon, the Dothraki and the Unsullied.  The reason seems to be because she intends to take Kings Landing by storm, instead of adopting the "humane" alternative, put forward by Varys and Tyrion, of starving the population to death.

[SeanF]

32 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Continuity is for 8th graders.

She's indestructible for nearly 8 seasons, until a gaping fool tricks her. Her clothing, however, was destructible for boob opps. She's naked in the season 1 and season 5 fires (but has indestructible hair later, because that's hotter) because Benioff and Weiss wanted to see her boobs.

Let's do the audience filling in the gaps thing. Maybe she became one with Drogon, and thus assumed his characteristics. But they never showed that, and they wouldn't let her honor the man she named him for. Her sun and stars didn't warrant a mention in the end.

A fool couldn't have missed it in the books (so they might have an excuse after all), where she honors Drogo constantly, she wears his lion pelt and thanks him for making her khaleesi and encouraging her. And there's all that talk about meeting in death, even on the show, but that meant something, so they forgot.

All that meaningful stuff was the GRRM story so it wasn't what was "best for the show." And yet, it was on the show in the beginning, however bungled. You see, it's best for a main character to have no last words. Stab stab stab, oh I see I'm dying, let me say... NOTHING. Like all the good stories do.

I'm pretty sure if I'd just sacked a city I'd be wearing a brigandine, or a jacket lined with metal plates., while staying in it.

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, SeanF said:

It's so stupid.  He's trying to kill her before Cersei has been defeated, which would leave Cersei's opponents without the use of Drogon, the Dothraki and the Unsullied.  The reason seems to be because she intends to take Kings Landing by storm, instead of adopting the "humane" alternative, put forward by Varys and Tyrion, of starving the population to death.

Yeah, but even that is totally inconsistent, both Varys and Tyrion have never been averse to breaking a few eggs collateral civilian damage to achieve their goals. What is Varys objection here?  He already knew about dragons, savage slaver Dothraki horde, pillager slaver Iron Born, and foreign army of Unsullied.  He didn't do jack to save KL back during Bob's war, so now, again in the space of a basically 5 minutes of screen time goes full treason,  not even defecting to someone else or just fucking off back to Essos, but to kill her because she's going to sack King's Landing?  Ridiculous. 

[Le Cygne]

1 minute ago, SeanF said:

I'm pretty sure if I'd just sacked a city I'd be wearing a brigandine, or a jacket lined with metal plates., while staying in it.

Yeah, also since two of her dragons were effectively stabbed and killed, too.