Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[SeanF]

15 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

The "sad it was ending" talking point they were given added insult to injury. They were treated so badly, then told to say they didn't want it to end.

Kit Harington said that playing Jon Snow on the HBO series "Game of Thrones" broke him down in real life. The actor talked about the impact of working on the intense and often violent HBO series during an interview on SiriusXM's "The Jess Cagle Show."

US Magazine reported that Harington went to a rehab facility in 2019 for stress and alcohol abuse.

“The last season of Thrones seemed to be designed to break us. Everyone was broken at the end,” he told GQ Australia in January 2019. “I don’t know if we were crying because we were sad it was ending or if we were crying because it was so f—king tiring. We were sleep deprived.”

https://crooksandliars.com/2021/08/kit-harrington-game-thrones-directly

Actually, I suspect his issues with depression were down to the type of character (a complete moral coward) that he was forced to play in Season 8.

[Le Cygne]

On 8/19/2021 at 10:30 AM, SeanF said:

Actually, I suspect his issues with depression were down to the type of character (a complete moral coward) that he was forced to play in Season 8.

Well, Jon told the secret Ned died keeping to protect him to the person who had sent him out to die in her own personal power play, then she promptly broke a sacred promise like breaking a nail by telling someone who talked him into kinslaying after telling him he wanted his girlfriend but she didn't want him... So he was pretty damn stupid, too.

They took away his story, but also his brain. No brains, no morality, no nothing. In the pivotal battle, he screamed at a dragon (oh wait, it wasn't pivotal, it was a wet fart). I can't imagine any sensitive actor would truly enjoy portraying a pod person, no matter what they are paid to say. They were all pod people, thanks to Benioff and Weiss.

[Pink Fat Rast]

52 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

 I can't imagine any sensitive actor would truly enjoy portraying a pod person, no matter what they are paid to say. They were all pod people, thanks to Benioff and Weiss.

Back in s6 he said he was disappointed with not having changed after being dead;

ironically, in this universe, acting like "good Kirk" after being resurrected, *would* be sth to be expected  - you're like a combination of empty inside / having a narrow, zealous focus on your cause.

Not sure to what extent any of that was intended though - him executing the NW traitors and then deserting might be read as a symptom, but idk.

 

The change into the "pod person" happened at the end of s7 after the wight hunt - and the Dragonpit meeting was pretty much his last time being high-energy and assertive, except a few short moments in s8.

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

Well, Jon told the secret Ned died keeping to protect him to the person who had sent him out to die in her own personal power play, then she promptly broke a sacred promise like breaking a nail by telling someone who talked him into kinslaying after telling him he wanted his girlfriend but she didn't want him... So he was pretty damn stupid, too.

They took away his story, but also his brain. No brains, no morality, no nothing. In the pivotal battle, he screamed at a dragon (oh wait, it wasn't pivotal, it was a wet fart). I can't imagine any sensitive actor would truly enjoy portraying a pod person, no matter what they are paid to say. They were all pod people, thanks to Benioff and Weiss.

Right in the first episode, they had him lying to his vassals about having to choose between his crown and saving the North (which is absolutely not what took place in the relevant scene in Episode 6 of Season 7).  Again, we're left trying to rationalise what is probably a retcon.  One can say that he was worried about his vassals rebelling, if he told them he never actually had to bend the knee. Then when Sansa asks him directly, afterwards, we never get the answer.  Either he lied again to Sansa, or he told the truth and she didn't care.

[Le Cygne]

Even if someone wanted to make up a story to fill in the tank sized holes in the plots in the show (which was pretty difficult seeing as not only was there a ton of out of character nonsense, no sentient being would do the things they had them do), they couldn't keep up, because the very next scene or episode, the show would pretend it never happened.

The explanation is, there is no explanation.

[$erPounce]

I was reading a post about Fire & Blood and this caught my attention:

Quote

One of the best moments in the book, hands down, is when Martin throws shade at Game of Thrones and the showrunners David Benioff and D. B. Weiss. Under the guise of the discussion of a book called A Caution for Young Girls, Martin makes his opinion of certain decisions made in the adaptation process of his own books very clear. He begins by calling the book “distasteful,” a book found in brothels and catering to those of low morals. He then mentions that parts of the book “strain credulity” given how ridiculous the tales are, and increasingly so as the story continues.

“We have no way to ascertain the veracity of her story, nor even whether she was in truth the author of this infamous book (some argue plausibly that the text is the product of several hands, for the style of the prose varies greatly from episode to episode).” (Fire and Blood, p. 157)

I mean…good lord. The use of “episode to episode” makes the true object of his ridicule pretty clear. But he doesn’t stop there. Continuing with his mockery of the writers of the tales, he writes,

“[T]he scribes responsible were most likely septons expelled from the Faith for drunkenness, theft, or fornication, failed students who left the Citadel without a chain, hired quills from the Free Cities, or mummers (the worst of all). Lacking the rigor of maesters, such scribes oft feel free to “improve” on the texts they are copying. (Mummers in particular are prone to this.)

In the case of A Caution for Young Girls, such “improvements” largely consisted of adding ever more episodes of depravity and changing the existing episodes to make them even more disturbing and lascivious. As alteration followed alteration over the years, it became ever more difficult to ascertain which was the original text, to the extent that even maesters at the Citadel cannot agree as to the title of the book, as has been noted.” (Fire and Blood, p.158-9)

I can’t stop cackling. This is the best shade I’ve ever seen.

This is not the first time George has subtly demonstrated his dissatisfaction with the show's adaptation. Also look at the dates of when he released the preview chapters of TWOW. One of the Arianne chapters was made public near the episode where Ellaria and the Sandsnakes killed Doran and kin. Possibly as a stealthy resistance to the decisions with the show's Dorne storyline.

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, $erPounce said:

I was reading a post about Fire & Blood and this caught my attention:

This is not the first time George has subtly demonstrated his dissatisfaction with the show's adaptation. Also look at the dates of when he released the preview chapters of TWOW. One of the Arianne chapters was made public near the episode where Ellaria and the Sandsnakes killed Doran and kin. Possibly as a stealthy resistance to the decisions with the show's Dorne storyline.

Porne was certainly a low point in the show, but not the low point, IMHO.  That dubious honour goes to Tyrion's "First they came for the slave drivers and I did nothing......" speech.

[Darryk]

I've no doubt GRRM didnt like the direction the show took but I think trying to find examples of him throwing shade at D+D might be people seeing what they want to see. It's clear they are friends and that GRRM also has a good working relationship with HBO which he would be foolish to endanger,

 

[Darryk]

From what I've read here it sounds like actors on the GoT set were regularly made to feel very uncomfortable and that morale may have been low.

How much of this should be blamed on D+D and how much on HBO though? I remember Neil Marshall's story about how an HBO producer basically pressured him into including full-frontal nudity in the Battle of the Blackwater episode, so perhaps there's always been a toxic element to HBO productions.

[Pink Fat Rast]

On 9/10/2021 at 4:20 PM, Darryk said:

From what I've read here it sounds like actors on the GoT set were regularly made to feel very uncomfortable and that morale may have been low.

How much of this should be blamed on D+D and how much on HBO though? I remember Neil Marshall's story about how an HBO producer basically pressured him into including full-frontal nudity in the Battle of the Blackwater episode, so perhaps there's always been a toxic element to HBO productions.

DragonCommannds suggested that that guy may have been Benioff, and offered some kind of argument for that conclusion I think - though I forgot what video that was.

Idk would a director call the main writer and showrunner "a producer"? One who humbly described himself as "the one who represents the pervert side of the audience"? I don't know... prb not lol, but who knows

 

And yeah it can go without saying that there are various examples of the show doing sth less violently/luridly than the books, as well as various examples that went the opposite direction (i.e. the one described in that "shade throwing" example);

I don't see any overwhelming patterns in "how the show changed the source material", it seems more like a case-by-case all over the place thing - this is esp. visible in the latter half where the tonal/qualitative inconsistencies and a lack of any unified vision or concept became increasingly apparent.

[Darryk]

12 hours ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

DragonCommannds suggested that that guy may have been Benioff, and offered some kind of argument for that conclusion I think - though I forgot what video that was.

Idk would a director call the main writer and showrunner "a producer"? One who humbly described himself as "the one who represents the pervert side of the audience"? I don't know... prb not lol, but who knows

 

And yeah it can go without saying that there are various examples of the show doing sth less violently/luridly than the books, as well as various examples that went the opposite direction (i.e. the one described in that "shade throwing" example);

I don't see any overwhelming patterns in "how the show changed the source material", it seems more like a case-by-case all over the place thing - this is esp. visible in the latter half where the tonal/qualitative inconsistencies and a lack of any unified vision or concept became increasingly apparent.

That seems very unlikely. I know there's an intense dislike for Benioff among the fanbase, but I don't picture him referring to himself as "the pervert side of the audience". He's married to Amanda Peet, guy doesn't need to be perving around on a TV set.

To be honest Neil Marshall's story makes you really hope the guy was just some creep who managed to slink his way onto the set somehow, and not an actual producer. If he was I hope there was some effort by HBO to hunt him down and expunge him.

[Pink Fat Rast]

3 minutes ago, Darryk said:

That seems very unlikely. I know there's an intense dislike for Benioff among the fanbase, but I don't picture him referring to himself as "the pervert side of the audience". He's married to Amanda Peet, guy doesn't need to be perving around on a TV set.

To be honest Neil Marshall's story makes you really hope the guy was just some creep who managed to slink his way onto the set somehow, and not an actual producer. If he was I hope there was some effort by HBO to hunt him down and expunge him.

Well yeah came off as some 2ndary, 3tiary level guy lol, not the main famous show leader. 

[Count Balerion]

On 8/21/2021 at 1:23 PM, Le Cygne said:

Even if someone wanted to make up a story to fill in the tank sized holes in the plots in the show (which was pretty difficult seeing as not only was there a ton of out of character nonsense, no sentient being would do the things they had them do), they couldn't keep up, because the very next scene or episode, the show would pretend it never happened.

The explanation is, there is no explanation.

or if there is it's TPTF. these performances these faces.

[Count Balerion]

On 9/4/2021 at 12:01 PM, SeanF said:

Porne was certainly a low point in the show, but not the low point, IMHO.  That dubious honour goes to Tyrion's "First they came for the slave drivers and I did nothing......" speech.

will no one weep for kraznys?

[Count Balerion]

anyone seen this. demanding dragon chap linked to it in video. watching looper/stammer video. "probably catherine kennedy took one look at the last season and was like [raspberry, thumbs down], and fired them." "keep those guys away from the new project. so far away. legally they cannot go there." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5L9L9ap3Yk

[Count Balerion]

oh yeah, here's dragon video.

 

[Le Cygne]

HBO's "Game of Thrones" TV series will principally be remembered for two things: a disappointing ending, and a legion of fans who think they could have done it better...

Catelyn Stark would come back from the dead

Following her death at the Red Wedding in Season 3, it was simply assumed that one of the ensuing seasons would close on the image of the Stark matriarch opening her undead eyes; this was for good reason: it happened in the books... Ultimately, the "Game of Thrones" show omitted the entire thing.

Cersei Lannister would be killed by Jaime

Then there was the show-specific "green eyes" theory, which was derived from Melisandre's prophecy that Arya Stark would kill people with green, brown, and blue eyes... No such thing actually happened, of course. Cersei and Jaime were crushed to death by falling rocks, in what remains one of the series finale's most controversial choices.

Jon Snow (or maybe Daenerys Targaryen) was the Prince Who Was Promised

After Stannis' death, Melisandre switched her pick to the resurrected Jon Snow, though Season 7 still went out of its way to suggest that the Prince — which could also be a Princess — actually turned out to be Daenerys... Hilariously, not only is the true identity of the Prince Who Was Promised never properly revealed, the entire concept was unceremoniously dropped in Season 8.

Jon Snow would kill the Night King

If there was one way Jon could have proven he was the hero that the prophecy foretold, it would have been to kill the Night King, thus ending the threat of the White Walkers once and for all... It was so logical, in fact, that the showrunners decided not to write it. Snow actor Kit Harrington, for his part, told Maisie Williams that he had been informed during Season 3 that he was going to do it...

So instead, it became Arya who leapt out of the darkness and took down the Night King with a Valyrian steel dagger. The choice had no narrative or thematic resonance whatsoever, and seemingly let Jon with nothing to do during the battle but scream uselessly at a dragon — but hey, at least it wasn't obvious.

https://www.looper.com/602613/the-wildest-game-of-thrones-theories-that-didnt-pan-out/

[Lady Fevre Dream]

This is what HBO tweeted out today.  When the suggestion of streaming all of Game of Thrones came across my timeline, my main thought was:  What ever for?  Why would I do that now?  I can't imagine why?  

 

[SeanF]

10 hours ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

This is what HBO tweeted out today.  When the suggestion of streaming all of Game of Thrones came across my timeline, my main thought was:  What ever for?  Why would I do that now?  I can't imagine why?  

 

Even the scenes and episodes that I liked, from earlier seasons, have no rewatch value to me.  What's the point to the stories of Jon, Daenerys, or Jaime, when they end so wretchedly?  What's the point of watching Sansa turning into Cersei 2.0?  Who cares about Bran becoming king?  What interest is there in seeing Tyrion become a moron?

[BlackLightning]

On 9/26/2021 at 11:34 AM, Le Cygne said:

HBO's "Game of Thrones" TV series will principally be remembered for two things: a disappointing ending, and a legion of fans who think they could have done it better...

Catelyn Stark would come back from the dead

Following her death at the Red Wedding in Season 3, it was simply assumed that one of the ensuing seasons would close on the image of the Stark matriarch opening her undead eyes; this was for good reason: it happened in the books... Ultimately, the "Game of Thrones" show omitted the entire thing.

Cersei Lannister would be killed by Jaime

Then there was the show-specific "green eyes" theory, which was derived from Melisandre's prophecy that Arya Stark would kill people with green, brown, and blue eyes... No such thing actually happened, of course. Cersei and Jaime were crushed to death by falling rocks, in what remains one of the series finale's most controversial choices.

Jon Snow (or maybe Daenerys Targaryen) was the Prince Who Was Promised

After Stannis' death, Melisandre switched her pick to the resurrected Jon Snow, though Season 7 still went out of its way to suggest that the Prince — which could also be a Princess — actually turned out to be Daenerys... Hilariously, not only is the true identity of the Prince Who Was Promised never properly revealed, the entire concept was unceremoniously dropped in Season 8.

Jon Snow would kill the Night King

If there was one way Jon could have proven he was the hero that the prophecy foretold, it would have been to kill the Night King, thus ending the threat of the White Walkers once and for all... It was so logical, in fact, that the showrunners decided not to write it. Snow actor Kit Harrington, for his part, told Maisie Williams that he had been informed during Season 3 that he was going to do it...

So instead, it became Arya who leapt out of the darkness and took down the Night King with a Valyrian steel dagger. The choice had no narrative or thematic resonance whatsoever, and seemingly let Jon with nothing to do during the battle but scream uselessly at a dragon — but hey, at least it wasn't obvious.

https://www.looper.com/602613/the-wildest-game-of-thrones-theories-that-didnt-pan-out/

How embarrassing.

Now the bits about:

• Varys being a merman
• the White Walkers coming back as a surprise in the final episode
• Bran being the Night King (or the reason for the Night King's existence)
• and the end of all magic...

Ideas like those were the only way that the show could have been salvaged in the last three episodes.

On 9/26/2021 at 6:11 PM, Lady Fevre Dream said:

This is what HBO tweeted out today.  When the suggestion of streaming all of Game of Thrones came across my timeline, my main thought was:  What ever for?  Why would I do that now?  I can't imagine why?  

 

Exactly.

@SeanF to this day, I can only watch scenes. Not entire episodes.

Not even the first episode has rewatch value because things addressed in the very first episode aren't even concluded in the last episode. Miserable.