Jump to content

Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!


The Fattest Leech

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, SeanF said:

On another thread @TheDragonDemands said there was a deleted scene in Season 6 where two women are complaining about the rape of Sansa, depicted in the play, and Arya breaks the fourth wall to shout at them, "If you don't like it, don't watch it!"

And to think, that was season 6, just a year before the Weinstein scandal broke and this sort of thing started receiving mainstream criticism. (The women in that scene are also portrayed as old, uptight, wrinkled prudes too. It should still be on YouTube). These fckers got SO lucky. I really don’t think GOT would be half as successful if it premiered today.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GoT didn't have to be the way it was. Hey, let's cut a woman's story and use her body to prop up a psychopath instead. Hey, let's make a woman go bonkers over a man then have him put her down like a mad dog...

It isn't rocket science to not go there. Even if you made excuses for them, you'd still be left with this: they are crappy plots nobody wanted to see. Anyone could have told them this. Plenty of critics did tell them this.

Not only did they not read the room, when it was read for them, they just thumbed their noses at everyone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

GoT didn't have to be the way it was. Hey, let's cut a woman's story and use her body to prop up a psychopath instead. Hey, let's make a woman go bonkers over a man then have him put her down like a mad dog...

It isn't rocket science to not go there. Even if you made excuses for them, you'd still be left with this: they are crappy plots nobody wanted to see. Anyone could have told them this. Plenty of critics did tell them this.

Not only did they not read the room, when it was read for them, they just thumbed their noses at everyone.

I agree that they were poorly written plotlines - D&D were bad writers in general - but I don't agree with your sentiment that writers should write only what fans want to see. That's just fan-service, it's not real storytelling. As soon as a writer refuses to write something because he's scared of how people will respond, he loses integrity and credibility. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/9/2021 at 8:37 AM, SeanF said:

I think Benioff is a psychopath.  His behaviour is just so bizarrely unpleasant;  the stupid practical jokes that made Sophie Turner and Maisie Williams cry;  the horribly fetishised death scene of Ros (the actress was grossly abused in real life);  the ten hour water boarding of the actress who played Unella etc.

Yeah, it was just nastiness for the sake of nastiness. He thumbed his nose at everyone who called him on it, as many did, and kept it up, right to the end. And it all caught up to him in the end, because it couldn't be swept under the rug anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/9/2021 at 5:07 PM, SeanF said:

I think Benioff is a psychopath.  His behaviour is just so bizarrely unpleasant;  the stupid practical jokes that made Sophie Turner and Maisie Williams cry;

????:blink:

On 11/9/2021 at 5:07 PM, SeanF said:

 the horribly fetishised death scene of Ros (the actress was grossly abused in real life);

??????:blink:

On 11/9/2021 at 5:07 PM, SeanF said:

 the ten hour water boarding of the actress who played Unella etc.

:blink: was it the rape scene they had shot? ?? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

????:blink:

??????:blink:

:blink: was it the rape scene they had shot? ?? 

Game of Thrones Actress Details Being Waterboarded for 10 Hours on Set | IndieWire

Having her raped was in addition to the waterboarding. 

Game of Thrones bosses reveal prank that left two stars "crying" (digitalspy.com)

I don't see what's remotely humorous about that.

Actress Esmé Bianco: Marilyn Manson “Almost Destroyed Me” (thecut.com)

She's one of several women currently suing Marilyn Manson.  The show gave a loving depiction of her being shot through the vagina with a crossbow bolt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/25/2021 at 5:37 PM, SeanF said:

On another thread @TheDragonDemands said there was a deleted scene in Season 6 where two women are complaining about the rape of Sansa, depicted in the play, and Arya breaks the fourth wall to shout at them, "If you don't like it, don't watch it!"

They would have Arya, of all people, be the one to support this disgusting storyline in universe? Sansa's own sister? Wasn't it bad enough when they used Maisie Williams in S5 interviews to support this storyline?

Quote

She's one of several women currently suing Marilyn Manson.  The show gave a loving depiction of her being shot through the vagina with a crossbow bolt.

Lets not forget that the only reason she got fired was because she started demanding to get the same things all the other actors got who had equal screentime.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This video aged well:

In the cult of the badass, the highest achievement to which a character can aspire is the ability to kill with a completely blank look on their face.

There's no room for Septon Meribald in a show like this. If there was, he'd probably have been tortured to death by Ramsay Snow or something by now.

All those moments in the Riverlands, at the Quiet Island, on the Wall, and Meereen, the moments you could, for lack of a better word, call goodass?

They're gone, unnecessary, extraneous to the proceedings...

And that's my beef with the show... I care that the spirit of ASOIAF hasn't made it from the page to the screen, the way it did with LOTR...

It's nasty and vicious and glib, in a way the books never were.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

This video aged well:

In the cult of the badass, the highest achievement to which a character can aspire is the ability to kill with a completely blank look on their face.

There's no room for Septon Meribald in a show like this. If there was, he'd probably have been tortured to death by Ramsay Snow or something by now.

All those moments in the Riverlands, at the Quiet Island, on the Wall, and Meereen, the moments you could, for lack of a better word, call goodass?

They're gone, unnecessary, extraneous to the proceedings...

And that's my beef with the show... I care that the spirit of ASOIAF hasn't made it from the page to the screen, the way it did with LOTR...

It's nasty and vicious and glib, in a way the books never were.

For six and a bit seasons the show glorified cruelty (and indeed, Ramsay was a “badass”, according to the two D’s).

Which makes all the more jarring, Tyrion’s transformation into near-pacifist, and all the more daft that Daenerys should be expected to bring a vast army and navy to Westeros, before using Gandhian tactics of non-violent resistance against Cersei, of all people!

And what I take from the books is not that this is a sports contest, in which you cheer or boo the characters vying for the Iron Throne, or Northern independence, but that these things are simply not important, compared to the existential threat from the Others. That was a point the show missed completely, once it turned the Others into Monster of the Week.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, SeanF said:

For six and a bit seasons the show glorified cruelty (and indeed, Ramsay was a “badass”, according to the two D’s).

Which makes all the more jarring, Tyrion’s transformation into near-pacifist, and all the more daft that Daenerys should be expected to bring a vast army and navy to Westeros, before using Gandhian tactics of non-violent resistance against Cersei, of all people!

And what I take from the books is not that this is a sports contest, in which you cheer or boo the characters vying for the Iron Throne, or Northern independence, but that these things are simply not important, compared to the existential threat from the Others. That was a point the show missed completely, once it turned the Others into Monster of the Week.

Indeed, and most important of all, I think, is the journey of the characters. It has to seem true and be meaningful, especially in quiet, personal ways. A person's life matters to themselves.

There was no self for the characters on the show, they were all just pieces of cardboard moved about according to the whims of some very questionable and frankly unpleasant men posing as writers.

The show had them do things they never would have done (and things no human being ever would have done). The characters were the actors in disconnected skits that none of them understood.

It was a mishmatch of characters and plots that, even if they had elements taken from the books, missed the point entirely (like Gabaldon put it). It was a mockery of a story, and really, of humanity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I watched a few episodes of the first season over the weekend.  What I was most struck by, other than sadness at what a mess they made of everything, was how many entire scenes consisted of people who didn't live to the end.  I'd have to wonder, if even with more popular ending, would rewatching be enjoyable with such a high body count. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Robert carried bad luck on him. Everyone he touched there died. (off topic, sorry)

 

The sad thing about the ending of the show is that if Dumber and Dogshit bothered to think things through (maybe get some outside help too) is that even with how bad S7 was on close analysis (and other stuff) it could've been salvaged with a strong final season (it amuses me to no end that YouTubers can and have put forth "rewrites" that are much better). 

But they did not, and so we have the magnum opus of trash, a broken legacy of a show that was amazing. Idiots. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/30/2021 at 3:19 AM, Cas Stark said:

I watched a few episodes of the first season over the weekend.  What I was most struck by, other than sadness at what a mess they made of everything, was how many entire scenes consisted of people who didn't live to the end.  I'd have to wonder, if even with more popular ending, would rewatching be enjoyable with such a high body count. 

It would if all the death and suffering was seen to have some meaning in the end, which I still hope will be the case in the books, but is not in the show. I don't believe the books are nihilistic but D+D seemed to interpret it as being that.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Darryk said:

It would if all the death and suffering was seen to have some meaning in the end, which I still hope will be the case in the books, but is not in the show. I don't believe the books are nihilistic but D+D seemed to interpret it as being that.

 

Completely agreed!  When the goal was never anything other than simply shocking the audience, well, we see what we got in the end.  During those final seasons, I was was continually shocked alright, but not for the reasons the showrunners seemingly wanted me to be.  I was continually shocked by the utter failure even though everything necessary for success was in place.  Well, except one thing...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

Completely agreed!  When the goal was never anything other than simply shocking the audience, well, we see what we got in the end.  During those final seasons, I was was continually shocked alright, but not for the reasons the showrunners seemingly wanted me to be.  I was continually shocked by the utter failure even though everything necessary for success was in place.  Well, except one thing...

Yup, GRRM knows how to create shocking moments that still serve the story and keeps the audience emotionally invested.

It's clear D+D were so desperate to recapture the shock factor of Ned's execution and the Red Wedding, but once they overtook the books they had to come up with their own "shocking" moments, but they lacked the subtlety of GRRM, so they couldn't find the right balance between having surprising moments while still keeping the audience invested. 

Their "shocking" moments just confused people, like Dany turning (A lot of people I spoke to were just like "why is she burning the city? She doesn't like bells?").

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/29/2021 at 8:39 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

Robert carried bad luck on him. Everyone he touched there died. (off topic, sorry)

 

The sad thing about the ending of the show is that if Dumber and Dogshit bothered to think things through (maybe get some outside help too) is that even with how bad S7 was on close analysis (and other stuff) it could've been salvaged with a strong final season (it amuses me to no end that YouTubers can and have put forth "rewrites" that are much better). 

But they did not, and so we have the magnum opus of trash, a broken legacy of a show that was amazing. Idiots. 

 

What rewrites?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Darryk said:

Yup, GRRM knows how to create shocking moments that still serve the story and keeps the audience emotionally invested.

It's clear D+D were so desperate to recapture the shock factor of Ned's execution and the Red Wedding, but once they overtook the books they had to come up with their own "shocking" moments, but they lacked the subtlety of GRRM, so they couldn't find the right balance between having surprising moments while still keeping the audience invested. 

Their "shocking" moments just confused people, like Dany turning (A lot of people I spoke to were just like "why is she burning the city? She doesn't like bells?").

Yet, it could have been made plausible, had Dany, her commanders, and the armies, been shown as people who had reached snapping point, after months of fighting against a faithless, ruthless enemy, who had left them in the lurch against the Dead.

Just have her paraphrasing Sir Arthur Harris;   "The Lannisters and their supporters entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they could slaughter others and not expect to be slaughtered in turn.  At Harrenhall, Riverrun, Highgarden, and half a hundred other places, they proceeded to put that rather naive theory into effect.  They have sown the wind, and now they shall reap the whirlwind."

The fact is that almost no army in history, in the position of the Unsullied, Dothraki, Northmen, or Valemen,  would be in any mood to display mercy to the defenders of Kings Landing, or the city's inhabitants.  Especially when Cersei responded to an offer of quarter by beheading a prominent prisoner. Every soldier actually behaved in character for an army that takes a city by storm, yet quite dishonestly, this was presented as being completely outside the norms of war, and entirely the fault of Daenerys.  Indeed, the portryal of Daenerys' military campaign from the start of Season 7 was dishonest.  The narrative suggested there was a near-bloodless way of defeating Cersei when that was never an option, and portrayed as sinister the obvious (and least costly in terms of casualties) idea that she should fly to the Red Keep and flatten it.

The Robb Stark and Jon Snow of the books, let alone the Stannis or Tyrion, would have had no compunction about putting the city to the sack, were they placed in a similar position to Daenerys.  Imagine if it was Joffrey beheading Ned on the battlments, or Cersei beheading Arya.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...