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Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!


The Fattest Leech

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10 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

I don't recall correctly, did he say the Unkiss will be huge or that more instances like will be revealed that are huge?

That there will be more instances similar to the Unkiss and that one of those instances will be a huge plot-point. 

We have already had another Unkiss situation in Dance with Quentyn and his friends. I don't think that that one was the big moment but I think that Unkiss moment makes it impossible for Dorne to be civil with Dany.

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7 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

That there will be more instances similar to the Unkiss and that one of those instances will be a huge plot-point. 

hmmm... that is huge.. I wonder if that Unkiss has already happened and was just not revealed or if not what it will be...:)

7 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

We have already had another Unkiss situation in Dance with Quentyn and his friends. I don't think that that one was the big moment but I think that Unkiss moment makes it impossible for Dorne to be civil with Dany.

that wasn't big but surely important. man , Barristan has a bad memory .. but that's understandable, right? he's like George's age..

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1 hour ago, BlackLightning said:

That there will be more instances similar to the Unkiss and that one of those instances will be a huge plot-point. 

We have already had another Unkiss situation in Dance with Quentyn and his friends. I don't think that that one was the big moment but I think that Unkiss moment makes it impossible for Dorne to be civil with Dany.

You mean Barristan and Quentyn saying that Dany didn’t laugh at Quentyn when she clearly did? Yeah, that was weird.

If it’s a premonition, it could be a set up for Hold the Door, in that it’s a closed loop. Like if Sansa kisses Sandor, thinking that she’s reciprocating from the BotB, but she’s actually making that memory happen in real time. Then on a larger scale, Hodor gets Hodor’d because Bran was always meant to make it so. Just a theory. (Also, George hinging this weird mystery on an imaginary kiss is just further proof that he and Sansa are kindred spirits haha). 

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2 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

Well, I guess...that wasn't what the Hound told Arya. And I don't think he was just blowing smoke up her chimney in order to get her to kill him.

Agreed.

Some characters are way too young while others are way too old. Sandor being one of the characters who are too old.

Are you sure? I feel like season 7 was amply criticized during and after its run.

The big complaints and criticisms of the day - across the board - were:

  1. it felt like all of the characters that weren't named Daenerys, Arya or Jon were just spinning their wheels
  2. it was extremely rushed (particularly the first half)
  3. and that the Winterfell plot in the second half not only made zero sense, but that was bad (shocking!).

Up until the last season, I think the episode where they went beyond the Wall was the worst reviewed and worst received episode of the entire series.

I think most people were just holding out hope that the last season would more than make up for it. I know I was one of them. Remember hearing the reports (not rumors, reports) that the last season was going to be six episodes long but that each episode would be like a movie in terms of length? Ha!

People tend to only quote the first part of the sentence. The Hound tells Arya, “I should have fucked her bloody and ripped her heart out before leaving her for that dwarf.” Remember, the Hound despises Tyrion and thinks he’s a monster. So what he’s saying is that getting ravaged and killed would have been a kinder fate than being handed off like a present to Tyrion Lannister. 

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15 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

People tend to only quote the first part of the sentence. The Hound tells Arya, “I should have fucked her bloody and ripped her heart out before leaving her for that dwarf.” Remember, the Hound despises Tyrion and thinks he’s a monster. So what he’s saying is that getting ravaged and killed would have been a kinder fate than being handed off like a present to Tyrion Lannister. 

Exactly what you said, and that's a huge thing to overlook - that's what is bugging him! Sandor is "sobbing" that Sansa is going through hell with the Lannisters, he blames himself because he left her, because he didn't take her with him. Even the stupid show had him say that in season 8.

He's goading Arya into killing him. He looked to see if what he said did the trick, and when it didn't, that's when he goaded her more: "When Arya did not move, he said..." That's when he brought up Sansa, and he sobbed when he did - that's another huge thing to overlook.

On the show, he looks away when he says "your pretty sister" as if to distance his feelings from his words (the director said he didn't mean the things he was saying). And in season 8, he blames himself for leaving her, and she tries to reassure him (as horribly written as that scene was).

In the books, he uses the words "leaving her" to describe what happened, and then she echoes his wording when she "remembers" he kissed her - she says "he left me" - and that's the crux of the story. They both regret that he left her. And that is the plot ball that's still in the air.

GRRM is telling a Beauty and the Beast story for Sansa and the Hound. A key plot point in BatB is when the Beast nearly dies of heartbreak while missing Beauty. And here the Hound (the Beast) is, sobbing about beautiful Sansa (Beauty) while dying. All that's missing is meeting again.

Here's the very obvious giveaway that he's telling a Beauty and the Beast story for them - La Belle et la Bête ~ Blackwater.

Sansa and Sandor are the only two main characters who never had consensual sexual sex on the show. In the everybody is shagging scene in season 8, she approaches him and says sex would make him happy, then holds his hand. After that episode, reviewers were like, well, did they do it?

They should have, and I think they will in the books. That they didn't let her have a moment of happiness, after gutting her and her story, says a lot about them.

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19 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Yeah, George majorly screwed up the ages. That’s something EggBlue and I complain about like three times a week. Just retcon them, George!

Agreed, just do a correction to the ages in the e-books, and print thereafter, everyone would be quite happy, they wouldn't have to ignore how messed up they are anymore.

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35 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Exactly what you said, and that's a huge thing to overlook - that's what is bugging him! Sandor is "sobbing" that Sansa is going through hell with the Lannisters, he blames himself because he left her, because he didn't take her with him. Even the stupid show had him say that in season 8.

He's goading Arya into killing him. He looked to see if what he said did the trick, and when it didn't, that's when he goaded her more: "When Arya did not move, he said..." That's when he brought up Sansa, and he sobbed when he did - that's another huge thing to overlook.

On the show, he looks away when he says "your pretty sister" as if to distance his feelings from his words (the director said he didn't mean the things he was saying). And in season 8, he blames himself for leaving her, and she tries to reassure him (as horribly written as that scene was).

In the books, he uses the words "leaving her" to describe what happened, and then she echoes his wording when she "remembers" he kissed her - she says "he left me" - and that's the crux of the story. They both regret that he left her. And that is the plot ball that's still in the air.

GRRM is telling a Beauty and the Beast story for Sansa and the Hound. A key plot point in BatB is when the Beast nearly dies of heartbreak while missing Beauty. And here the Hound (the Beast) is, sobbing about beautiful Sansa (Beauty) while dying. All that's missing is meeting again.

Here's the very obvious giveaway that he's telling a Beauty and the Beast story for them - La Belle et la Bête ~ Blackwater.

Sansa and Sandor are the only two main characters who never had consensual sexual sex on the show. In the everybody is shagging scene in season 8, she approaches him and says sex would make him happy, then holds his hand. After that episode, reviewers were like, well, did they do it?

They should have, and I think they will in the books. That they didn't let her have a moment of happiness, after gutting her and her story, says a lot about them.

Agreed, plus it also implies that beneath the veneer, he does feel guilty for killing Mycah (and possibly even for what happened to Ned, since he mentions Ned’s execution the first time he brings up Mycah and Sansa to Arya). 

It’s kind of like how after Lancel confesses his affair with Cersei to Jaime, Jaime starts telling Illyn Payne about how he would have killed Arya if he caught her at the Ruby Ford. For some reason, everyone took that to be Jaime’s way of saying, “Mwahahaha I wanted to kill Arya! I like to murder children!” When what we were really seeing, given the context and the way the scene was written, was Jaime’s dawning horror as he realized that he was willing to attack another child to please his love, Cersei, only to now learn that she never really loved him. He did terrible things because he believed that loved justified anything, and now he has to live with the consequences.

(And by the way, I’m not being smug here. I missed most of the clues and hints within this series before reading the forums. I didn’t even realize that Dunk wasn’t knighted until I saw someone mention it online. I completely missed the gay subtext—somehow—with Daemon II Blackfyre).

12 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Agreed, just do a correction to the ages in the e-books, and print thereafter, everyone would be quite happy, they wouldn't have to ignore how messed up they are anymore.

We need a petition. We live in a world where the Snyder Cut exists, anything can happen.

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18 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I don't recall correctly, did he say the Unkiss will be huge or that more instances like will be revealed that are huge?

He said this, and I think it's cute that he didn't think most people would pick up on it. Tale as old as time, we learned that story as kids. The Beast has to seem dangerous, and if we don't buy into that, it messes up the twist. The unkiss is the twist, Sansa is grooving on the danger (and danger is the code word for sexy).

ASOIAF is a very sexy story,  and I think people who don't want it to be, and take things literally, miss the fun. He likes phallic symbolism (daggers, swords, etc.) Like Hitchcock, he puts visual cues in the writing, and it would have been nice if the showrunners had the remotest knowledge of how to tell a story, but alas...

"You will see, in A STORM OF SWORDS and later volumes [there's only been one so far], that Sansa remembers the Hound kissing her the night he came to her bedroom... but if you look at the scene, he never does. That will eventually mean something, but just now it's a subtle touch, something most of the readers may not even pick up on."

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I've been searching for SanSan interviews with Martin and I found this:

now, I don't know what to think anymore! I mean.. in the show I thought there's a big chance that SanSan ultimately get together .  in the books ,with Sandor being a much harsher guy, I started to assume their very problematic connection might take a platonic turn after Sandor becomes a true knight and with that assumption a kingsgaurd or that their love becomes doomed with Sandor's death.. the point is the romantic aspect of their connection is undeniable:dunno:

 

I also found this little clip in which George talks only about unreliable narrator when asked about SanSan scene in Blackwater and nothing more, obviously! 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I've been searching for SanSan interviews with Martin and I found this:

now, I don't know what to think anymore! I mean.. in the show I thought there's a big chance that SanSan ultimately get together .  in the books ,with Sandor being a much harsher guy, I started to assume their very problematic connection might take a platonic turn after Sandor becomes a true knight and with that assumption a kingsgaurd or that their love becomes doomed with Sandor's death.. the point is the romantic aspect of their connection is undeniable:dunno:

 

I also found this little clip in which George talks only about unreliable narrator when asked about SanSan scene in Blackwater and nothing more, obviously! 

 

 

I know I’ve said it before, but George basically sent the Hound to rehab. I suspect he’ll be a lot calmer the next time we see him. (Just think of how much Theon and Thoros changed in the span of a few months). 

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27 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I know I’ve said it before, but George basically sent the Hound to rehab. I suspect he’ll be a lot calmer the next time we see him. (Just think of how much Theon and Thoros changed in the span of a few months). 

I know.. I know.. but in this clip , George talks about it as if all his teasing with SanSan is not gonna pay off as we suspect, rehab or not .

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14 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

I know.. I know.. but in this clip , George talks about it as if all his teasing with SanSan is not gonna pay off as we suspect, rehab or not .

I’d say “we shall see,” but I’m feeling pretty pessimistic about ever getting to read TWOW or ADOS these days :crying:

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Alright, I watched the clips. I think George enjoys talking to shippers, to be honest (for any ship), he’s such a mush :P I didn’t find him too dismissive, personally. It is absolutely hilarious that he says he doesn’t understand why people like characters like Jaime and Theon, though. It’s not like he’s been deliberately improving their characters for hundreds of pages now, right? 
 

On a more dour note, how sad is it seeing comments from nine years ago saying how excited they are for the next book? :(

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13 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I know.. I know.. but in this clip , George talks about it as if all his teasing with SanSan is not gonna pay off as we suspect, rehab or not .

The first clip:

  1. GRRM: Lots of women dig the bad boys like Sandor (gee, who'd a thunk it, George?)
  2. Host (woman): I am a big fan of Sandor
  3. GRRM: There's all these people who want to see SanSan (Sandor and Sansa) get together at the end
  4. Host (man): Well, the TV show has played with (hinted) that
  5. GRRM: Sure I have played with (hinted) it, too. There's something there. (GRRM just said SanSan is canon)
  6. Host (woman): Sounds good to me!

He just said there's something there with SanSan. How often does he say something like that? He's very close to the vest with his plot twists. And yet he said this. And HE brought it up himself! He always brings it up.

I come off of this thinking the same thing I thought from reading the books. The unreliable narrator clip, ditto. She didn't actually kiss him, but she wants to kiss him. She loves stories, and she's making one up for them.

He needs to set Sandor up as a beast, that's his primary goal with him, to sell the Beauty and the Beast story. But everyone guessed it way too early, because he also made him one of his best characters.

People like him, despite his beastliness, and that's gotta happen, too. It's a tightrope, narratively. Disney pulls it off. Watch Beauty and the Beast, either the cartoon or live action version, when he growls, how she responds.

It's classic romance writing, and romance GRRM-style is not for the faint of heart, but he's literally following the Beauty and the Beast plot with them, right down to the lines. The rescue was the Beast rescuing her from the wolves.

He has to play up that the Hound/the Beast is dangerous because that's what is exciting Sansa. She's making up kisses with the Hound, this tells us something about her. The big twist in Cocteau is Beauty says SHE is the Beast!

It's all very sexy. They fly away in the end, and we know what that's a metaphor for. GRRM knows all of this quite well. Even in the Disney live version, Beauty says to the Beast, could you grow a beard? And he growls. He knows.

Also from Cocteau (in the books, she did pet him, she touches his cheek): La Belle et la Bête ~ Blackwater

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7 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

On a more dour note, how sad is it seeing comments from nine years ago saying how excited they are for the next book? :(

that's why I never read comment sections from 1+ years ago!

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Here’s an interesting article from right before season 8 premiered: HBO was convinced that GOT merchandise would keep selling after the show ended. That sure as hell didn’t happen.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/game-of-thrones-season-8-merchandise-from-hbo-hit-wont-stop-after-final-episode/#app

It’s unconfirmed, but I have seen people on Reddit who work in retail claim that GOT merch stopped selling abruptly during the last season, with stores having to discount what was left and some retailers sending stuff back to the manufacturers. I don’t recall seeing much merch after the last season myself, for what it’s worth.

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2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Here’s an interesting article from right before season 8 premiered: HBO was convinced that GOT merchandise would keep selling after the show ended. That sure as hell didn’t happen.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/game-of-thrones-season-8-merchandise-from-hbo-hit-wont-stop-after-final-episode/#app

It’s unconfirmed, but I have seen people on Reddit who work in retail claim that GOT merch stopped selling abruptly during the last season, with stores having to discount what was left and some retailers sending stuff back to the manufacturers. I don’t recall seeing much merch after the last season myself, for what it’s worth.

That’s my understanding, too.

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16 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Here’s an interesting article from right before season 8 premiered: HBO was convinced that GOT merchandise would keep selling after the show ended. That sure as hell didn’t happen.

 

How so? The shitheap that let down the fans, but we're still supposed to buy their merch? 

I'd rather buy Technoblade's merch (and I say that as someone who mostly despises the person who thinks he's better than Dream). 

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On 3/9/2022 at 1:58 AM, The Bard of Banefort said:

Here’s an interesting article from right before season 8 premiered: HBO was convinced that GOT merchandise would keep selling after the show ended. That sure as hell didn’t happen.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/game-of-thrones-season-8-merchandise-from-hbo-hit-wont-stop-after-final-episode/#app

It’s unconfirmed, but I have seen people on Reddit who work in retail claim that GOT merch stopped selling abruptly during the last season, with stores having to discount what was left and some retailers sending stuff back to the manufacturers. I don’t recall seeing much merch after the last season myself, for what it’s worth.

That's hilarious. Never seen something disappear so suddenly and completely from pop culture as this show. 

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18 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

How so? The shitheap that let down the fans, but we're still supposed to buy their merch? 

I'd rather buy Technoblade's merch (and I say that as someone who mostly despises the person who thinks he's better than Dream). 

I'd rather stick needles in my eyes than buy the merchandise.

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