Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[Le Cygne]

3 hours ago, SeanF said:

sansa pictures - Bing images

I've just realised that late season Sansa is wearing one of those collar and chain necklaces that advertises that one is a sub on websites like Fetlife.

Oh my. We had fun mocking the fug necklace on this thread when it showed up. It looks just like a choke chain, a dog collar. Then Benioff/Weiss said she was hungry like a dog for revenge.

The real characters, especially the real Sansa, would mock the hell out of all of those dreadful Halloween costumes they made them wear. Moldy matted black fur, knockoff Maleficent dress, dog collar...

The tone deaf costume designer made her wear white for her ritual sacrifice to family killers, then blathered about how easy she made it to rip off the dress for the assault. Such a tone deaf production.

Dany was supposed to be the breaker of chains, really she was talking about the chains they made her wear. She never got to break them, though. They had Jon put her down like Old Yeller.

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

Oh my. We had fun mocking the fug necklace on this thread when it showed up. It looks just like a choke chain, a dog collar. Then Benioff/Weiss said she was hungry like a dog for revenge.

The real characters, especially the real Sansa, would mock the hell out of all of those dreadful Halloween costumes they made them wear. Moldy matted black fur, knockoff Maleficent dress, dog collar...

The tone deaf costume designer made her wear white for her ritual sacrifice to family killers, then blathered about how easy she made it to rip off the dress for the assault. Such a tone deaf production.

Dany was supposed to be the breaker of chains, really she was talking about the chains they made her wear. She never got to break them, though. They had Jon put her down like Old Yeller.

I think they borrowed the costumes from the Cenobites, in Hellraiser.

[Angel Eyes]

8 hours ago, SeanF said:

sansa pictures - Bing images

I've just realised that late season Sansa is wearing one of those collar and chain necklaces that advertises that one is a sub on websites like Fetlife.

What, like that Elder Wand and Resurrection Stone-esque pendant that shows up in her feathered dress in Season 4? The one that also features in one of the White Walkers' corpse designs?

[Le Cygne]

5 hours ago, SeanF said:

I think they borrowed the costumes from the Cenobites, in Hellraiser.

Ewww I just looked and yes, you could swap out the heads and have a pic of this cast. (I also thought they all looked like Klingons... why do these medieval characters look like alien outer space villains?)

The absence of color and proliferation of chains and other uncomfortable unflattering things was yet another rejection of the book world (or any normal world where people want to look and feel nice).

In the books, Cersei wore big emeralds to show how Lannister she was, and upper class. Sansa loved frilly, pretty dresses. Dany wore Drogo's lion pelt. Story stuff. Nice and interesting, like other shows and movies.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Michelle Clapton’s costumes were hideous, especially in the later seasons. Even in the earlier seasons, the idea that medieval queen Cersei walks around in a kimono all day is laughable. The costumes noticeably improved in S6 (that was when Sansa had her iconic wolf dress, before she went back to the bitch-chain), and that’s directly because they had a different designer fill in that season. There was one notable exception though: Cersei’s coronation dress and crown, which Clapton designed, and it looked godawful. That crown looked like it was made out of tin in shop class.

[The Bard of Banefort]

I saw a GOT/HBO Max ad on YouTube earlier today, and it was entirely centered around Dany and her dragons. It’s like they expect us to just complete forget the last season (I don’t think they showed any scenes from S8 either).

Clearly they’re relying entirely on the dragons to get people to watch HOTD, which doesn’t say much for the storyline. I’ve noticed a pattern in the interviews and BTS videos: they stress that this is a smaller story with fewer venues and more family drama, then follow it up with “but there are more dragons!” They’re clearly very nervous that people are going to tune out when they realize there’s less spectacle than GOT. Many people will tell you that S1, which had the least amount of spectacle, was the best season, but it also had the smallest audience. The Red Wedding is what really turned more people on to watching the show. 

One thing I’m noticing on online platforms is that the most enthusiastic fans for HOTD are from places like Brazil and Saudi Arabia. If you look on Instagram or Twitter, there are remarkably few English-speaking fan pages.

[Le Cygne]

27 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Michelle Clapton’s costumes were hideous, especially in the later seasons. Even in the earlier seasons, the idea that medieval queen Cersei walks around in a kimono all day is laughable. The costumes noticeably improved in S6 (that was when Sansa had her iconic wolf dress, before she went back to the bitch-chain), and that’s directly because they had a different designer fill in that season. There was one notable exception though: Cersei’s coronation dress and crown, which Clapton designed, and it looked godawful. That crown looked like it was made out of tin in shop class.

Yeah, even the earlier costumes, which were less goth metal military submissive space alien villain, they were so frumpy and bizarre (like the oh so out of that world tube dress, she sure liked to copy stuff). Things didn't even fit right.

What about the thorn wedding dress? The things that costume designer said were so off the wall. It was like rubbing salt in the wound to hear her rationales. Sewing birds in Cersei's underwear. Mini Needle because sewing sucks. Ugh.

[SeanF]

39 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Michelle Clapton’s costumes were hideous, especially in the later seasons. Even in the earlier seasons, the idea that medieval queen Cersei walks around in a kimono all day is laughable. The costumes noticeably improved in S6 (that was when Sansa had her iconic wolf dress, before she went back to the bitch-chain), and that’s directly because they had a different designer fill in that season. There was one notable exception though: Cersei’s coronation dress and crown, which Clapton designed, and it looked godawful. That crown looked like it was made out of tin in shop class.

What struck me was the very odd mix of styles.  The people of Kings Landing dress like people from Pompeii.  The other costumes then cover everything from the ancient world to far into the future.

Hardly anyone dresses the way someone did in 1400.

[Angel Eyes]

On 7/24/2022 at 1:33 PM, BlackLightning said:

Well, GRRM does go in detail with Jaime having problems after losing his hand. Not Bran though.

 

It's a good point. I don't think GRRM has a stomach for stuff like that. Dany seems to be the exception because GRRM puts all sorts of crazy stuff in her chapters.

Surprised he doesn't, considering he goes into detail with putrefaction (read: Tywin).

[BlackLightning]

2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Surprised he doesn't, considering he goes into detail with putrefaction (read: Tywin).

Yes but all of the details pertaining to Tywin's decomposition and putrefaction is a pretty explicit symbol for how terrible of a person he was and how his legacy is one of filth, corruption and rapid decay.

It provides closure and drives home the fact (despite Tywin's many fans and admirers in the fandom, in real life and on the TV show) that Tywin was a evil man who caused a lot of unnecessary trouble and misery.

[Darryk]

23 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

Yes but all of the details pertaining to Tywin's decomposition and putrefaction is a pretty explicit symbol for how terrible of a person he was and how his legacy is one of filth, corruption and rapid decay.

It provides closure and drives home the fact (despite Tywin's many fans and admirers in the fandom, in real life and on the TV show) that Tywin was a evil man who caused a lot of unnecessary trouble and misery.

...and that for all his power and his skill at playing the Game of Thrones, he ended up as a pile of s**t.

[BlackLightning]

2 hours ago, Darryk said:

...and that for all his power and his skill at playing the Game of Thrones, he ended up as a pile of s**t.

Exactly

Which flies in the face of the TV show's conclusion. Tyrion plays the game of thrones, manipulates Jon into killing Daenerys so that he wouldn't be (rightfully) executed for repeated incidences of treason...yet, he gets to keep living his life, fulfilling his life's passion as a politician and joking about building more brothels while Jon is disgraced and exiled, Jaime (who despite his failings) always looked after the interest of other people is killed and Daenerys is dead.

What a piece of work.

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, BlackLightning said:

Exactly

Which flies in the face of the TV show's conclusion. Tyrion plays the game of thrones, manipulates Jon into killing Daenerys so that he wouldn't be (rightfully) executed for repeated incidences of treason...yet, he gets to keep living his life, fulfilling his life's passion as a politician and joking about building more brothels while Jon is disgraced and exiled, Jaime (who despite his failings) always looked after the interest of other people is killed and Daenerys is dead.

What a piece of work.

Tyrion was the character I finished up despising the most.  The way he used Jon, telling him a pack of lies and half-truths, in order to save his own hide, and then cast him aside, was despicable.  Okay, Jon was a fool, but Tyrion was actively evil.

[BlackLightning]

46 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Tyrion was the character I finished up despising the most.  The way he used Jon, telling him a pack of lies and half-truths, in order to save his own hide, and then cast him aside, was despicable.  Okay, Jon was a fool, but Tyrion was actively evil.

Yes.

But the show made it as if he was a good guy, heroic even.

I hated that.

 

Remember when Jon was sitting in a prison cell and asked Tyrion if murdering Daenerys was worth it and if he made the right call? Remember how Tyrion told him that he doesn't know and told him to ask him in ten or twenty years?

I literally threw an magazine at my TV.

[SeanF]

4 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Yes.

But the show made it as if he was a good guy, heroic even.

I hated that.

 

Remember when Jon was sitting in a prison cell and asked Tyrion if murdering Daenerys was worth it and if he made the right call? Remember how Tyrion told him that he doesn't know and told him to ask him in ten or twenty years?

I literally threw an magazine at my TV.

He murdered Daenerys so that Tyrion and Bronn could create new brothels.

[Le Cygne]

7 hours ago, SeanF said:

He murdered Daenerys so that Tyrion and Bronn could create new brothels.

They whitewashed the hell out of him, and took away the ability for women to call him out for what he was. They made Sansa their mouthpiece so she got to live, but Dany had to be murdered.

In the process of making him a paragon, to justify the things he did, they gutted the stories of the women he messed with, wiping out who they are as characters... all to prop up their self-insert.

Oh I just remembered what Preston Jacob used to call show Tyrion that says it all: the most moral man in the universe.

[SeanF]

5 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

They whitewashed the hell out of him, and took away the ability for women to call him out for what he was. They made Sansa their mouthpiece so she got to live, but Dany had to be murdered.

In the process of making him a paragon, to justify the things he did, they gutted the stories of the women he messed with, wiping out who they are as characters... all to prop up their self-insert.

Oh I just remembered what Preston Jacob used to call show Tyrion that says it all: the most moral man in the universe.

D & D’s morality is so twisted that they failed even to whitewash him.

[Le Cygne]

9 hours ago, SeanF said:

D & D’s morality is so twisted that they failed even to whitewash him.

You have to do more than just not do something evil to be praise-worthy, so the "he's so good" routine got old. And he did a lot of rotten things but since he was their own reflection, they would have done the same.

Would a hostage joke with him about her traitor brother the day after a forced marriage to an enemy? They took away her arc of quiet but determined defiance in the books (then punished her for it in season 5).

It wasn't just women who lost their stories, it was men, too. Anyone who did something good to the women (women they gutted to prop him up) was replaced by him and lessened in importance, because it just had to be HIM.

Sandor lost his pivotal story with Sansa this way. They even made Daario praise Tyrion (and then they just forgot all about him). Jon was diminished into an outcast, after getting talked into being a kinslayer (like Tyrion).

Kinslaying is no big whoop, since Tyrion did it. Tysha who? No regret over murdering a prostitute he kidnapped and placed in danger for his convenience. Forced marriage to him is a cakewalk (she should have appreciated him!)

[SeanF]

2 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

You have to do more than just not do something evil to be praise-worthy, so the "he's so good" routine got old. And he did a lot of rotten things but since he was their own reflection, they would have done the same.

Would a hostage joke with him about her traitor brother the day after a forced marriage to an enemy? They took away her arc of quiet but determined defiance in the books (then punished her for it in season 5).

It wasn't just women who lost their stories, it was men, too. Anyone who did something good to the women (women they gutted to prop him up) was replaced by him and lessened in importance, because it just had to be HIM.

Sandor lost his pivotal story with Sansa this way. They even made Daario praise Tyrion (and then they just forgot all about him). Jon was diminished into an outcast, after getting talked into being a kinslayer (like Tyrion).

Kinslaying is no big whoop, since Tyrion did it. Tysha who? No regret over murdering a prostitute he kidnapped and placed in danger for his convenience. Forced marriage to him is a cakewalk (she should have appreciated him!)

He was their self-insert and the “hero”, as they see heroism, (not how you and I view heroism) and it completely distorted other characters’ arcs. 

[apovsic]

This thread is still active? Nice

 

So I watched GoT up until S6E4, then I just couldn't watch it, because it was just so bad (mainly because of the Stannis plot from S5 and Jon resurrection plot from S6). So from then I tried to avoid spoilers (yeah, didn't worked out) and then my passion for ASOIF slowly cooled out (hmm, why is that, George? ). So to prepare for the HoD I decided to watch all the episodes from the beginning of S6. And boy oh boy, I have some things on my mind.

Firstly, the soundtrack is awesome. Light of the Seven is great, but The Night king , I actually rewatch the scene several times, just because of the music. Secondly visually the show was better every season (of course this only applies when you could see anything).

Now let's take season to season:

S6: very mixed bag and honestly it's the hardest to watch, because it still feels like GoT from previous (1-4) seasons, just off, it's like some kind of uncanny valley, characters are begging to transform into their zombie forms from S8, but they are still (mainly) the characters that were before. Now to the 5 "big" moments:

1. I really liked Bealor's sept explosion (music!), the whole scene was well done (unfortunately I was spoiled what would happen, but still),
2. Jon's heritage was well done, the transition from baby to Jon face (music!) and then "King of the north") manage to brought (for the last time) tears into my eyes (it was probably a lot of nostalgic feelings for S1, but hey, they manage to get me feel something positive).
3. OTOH: "Hold the door" scene was very mixed, Hodor's dead and his origin story was well done, but the way they killed Summer was just slap in the face, I was really pissed at that).
4. I was kinda hyped for BoB, everyone said that it was cool, I mean sure visually it looked impressive, but story wise (Rickon's death, Jon's plot armor, Vale's Deus Ex machina, Ramsey shooting the giant instead of Jon, ...) is just stupid, biggest disappointment of my watch.
5. Jon's ressurections: what was the point?

S7: the least entertaining season to watch.  It's not GoT anymore, but it isn't shit enough to be funny. Everything feels rushed, everyone is teleporting, Westeros is like 5 km^2 big. It's just bland. I don't really remember anything from the season, except Drogon's burning of Lannisters scene, the death of the Artist previously know as Littlefinger and Viserion's death and resurrection. Just bah.

S8: Firs two episodes where actually OK (for example Brienne's knighting), I was kinda surprised, because I thought it'l shitstorm from beginning to end. Third episode starts great, I was really feeling IT, the dread before the final battle, the middle part was then hit and miss (tactics were stupid, but some visuals were nice), but then when the wights break into the Winterfell all went meh. Arrya's Cat and mouse game was boring, all the main characters were on the brink of the death for like 45 min and then almost all of theme make it out alive (except Jorah, I think it was done ok and Theon, which death was ruined by the next scene (ninja Arya) and Edd, blase his soul). Night King approach was Ok (music!!!), but then ninja Arya was just meh. OK, E4 OK, I forgot what even happened there. E5: Jeusus, what have they done to Danny? I remember some Danny's fan who was complaining to me before, how they butchered her arc and I said, yeah they done the same to Stannis. Sorry, no, I was very, very wrong. Uf. And Jaime WTF, one line annihilated his whole character in a second. S6: some really subtle nazi imagery there D&D, well done, I didn't know that Dany is now evil. Jon killing Dany: eh, I was just drained at this point. "Great" council scene:  awesome. Jon is still alive somehow? Anyhow, ending was kinda OK, I was just pissed that it didn't end with the door on the Wall closing, because you know, it begins with door opening.

Overall I prefer S8>S7, because it actually made me feel something (rage and hysterical laughter), S7 was just slug-fest. Also I like Euron in the show, it wouldn't fit in the earlier season, but he was perfect the last two (I actually chuckled at "Finger in the bum" and then "Shh, we'll talk later" scene at least he was not pretending to be in the GoT like some others still did).

Anyway I'll now go and watch all the "Why GoT got bad" YT videos that I get recommended since I watched HoD trailer.