Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[The Bard of Banefort]

S7 received some criticism, but even then most people defended it. S5 and S6 were ardently defended by show fans. Even RamSan, despite the outcry, had plenty of defenders because this was a sErIoUs sHoW where nonsensical rape plots were part of the intricate genius of a story based on historical accuracy and the brilliant subversion of tropes.

I’m really coming around on the idea that people stopped talking about GOT because they were forced to confront the reality that this show really wasn’t that smart or deep.

[SeanF]

32 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

S7 received some criticism, but even then most people defended it. S5 and S6 were ardently defended by show fans. Even RamSan, despite the outcry, had plenty of defenders because this was a sErIoUs sHoW where nonsensical rape plots were part of the intricate genius of a story based on historical accuracy and the brilliant subversion of tropes.

I’m really coming around on the idea that people stopped talking about GOT because they were forced to confront the reality that this show really wasn’t that smart or deep.

I was very underwhelmed by Season 7, but held out hope they’d redeem themselves with Season 8.  Instead, they got worse.

[Le Cygne]

The show was kind of like Emperor in his new clothes. Benioff/Weiss were the thieves. Eventually everyone was the child.

HBO is the lords of the bedchamber:

The lords of the bedchamber took greater pains than ever, to appear holding up a train, although, in reality, there was no train to hold, and the Emperor walked on in his underwear.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Woah, I never saw this article before. Lots of interesting tidbits here:

https://ew.com/tv/2019/11/28/game-of-thrones-series-finale-dvd-commentary/

[Darryk]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Woah, I never saw this article before. Lots of interesting tidbits here:

https://ew.com/tv/2019/11/28/game-of-thrones-series-finale-dvd-commentary/

Quote

The reason Drogon torched the Iron Throne after Dany was killed isn’t specifically spelled out. But Benioff does note a potential insight into the dragon’s thoughts: “If [Dany is] not going to sit on it, no one’s going to sit on it.”

And in the script they said Drogon was not aiming at the throne and it was just a "dumb bystander".

If they give a different reason every time they clearly put no thought into it and you've got to wonder how many other times characters made decisions that the writers didn't bother thinking up a motivation for.

Quote

The showrunners confirm Bran being named king of Westeros is author George R.R. Martin’s planned ending for his books. “Bran is the only probably pure person in there,” Peter Dinklage (Tyrion) notes. “And the fact he cannot father children is key because they’ve repeated the cycle in this Westerosi history of heirs being really bad.”

So then what happens when Bran dies and they choose someone else to be king and that person has heirs? Er....

[BlackLightning]

On 8/10/2022 at 8:27 AM, sifth said:

So honest question, were seasons 5, 6 and 7 received well by the general masses? I was talking to someone about this the other day and pointing out how stupid D&D were in their writing. Then I remembered that the ratings were very high those years. 

Season 5 I remember was poorly received. I clearly remember all interest that I had in watching the show (I was in college and so I was too poor to watch GoT consistently, I had no TV, I had no time because I was too busy and I was interested in other things at the time...) Everybody complained about it. At that time, The Walking Dead was running circles around Game of Thrones in terms of quality and quantity. A much better show in comparison

Season 6 was well received but I think it was only because of the huge moments (genuinely huge moments) within the season: outside of the last two episodes, there was Dany at Vaes Dothrak, hold the door, Jon and Sansa reuniting, everything about Olenna Tyrell, the Hound's return, Tyrion setting the dragons free (which was stupid and problematic but whatever...), etc. And the cinematography and direction of season 6 was the best the show has ever had. But season 6 had flat moments...it was just overshadowed by the pure spectacle and grandness of those big moments.

Season 7 was somewhere in the middle. I remember people complaining at how rushed and small the show felt but they found it enjoyable. This is the point where people started actively hating a lot of the main characters because they were all doing really weird stuff for no reason. YouTube bears witness to this because a lot of people were commenting that watching the short clips was better than watching whole episodes...which was a telltale bad sign that the showrunners, writers and directors were only creating scenes not episodes, much less a season. A lot of people were wishing the show was more like it was in season 4 at that time. Not only was the drop in quality noticeable but people hated the lack of quantity. A lot can happen in three episodes and they just cut them all out. But there was so much goodwill behind the season finale that people were willing to give it a chance. Plus, they were taking a year hiatus to take a break and make sure that they delivered the best possible product. So people believed them... It was also said at the time that the episodes in season 8 would be more like movies in length and quality than like regular episodes.

Season 7 also had a lot of spoilers and people were going into the episodes confused and upset as to why and how the show was constructed so poorly...only to find out that it was the show that was confusing not the spoilers. I remember reading spoilers for the first 3 episodes of season 7. I was irritated when I watched it...at the time, I just blamed it on the fact that I read spoilers and that I should never do it again. Looking back, it was just bad.

[The Bard of Banefort]

5 minutes ago, Darryk said:

And in the script they said Drogon was not aiming at the throne and it was just a "dumb bystander".

If they give a different reason every time they clearly put no thought into it and you've got to wonder how many other times characters made decisions that the writers didn't bother thinking up a motivation for.

So then what happens when Bran dies and they choose someone else to be king and that person has heirs? Er....

I though Jon was the “dumb bystander”?

The Jaime line was horrific though. I’m glad they cut that. 

[BlackLightning]

6 minutes ago, Darryk said:

So then what happens when Bran dies and they choose someone else to be king and that person has heirs? Er....

That's exactly why the system of elective monarchy (especially one that is elected by an oligarchy) is so bad.

None of the benefits of a republican democracy or a monarchy but all of the downsides of both...

[Darryk]

4 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I though Jon was the “dumb bystander”?

The Jaime line was horrific though. I’m glad they cut that. 

Having read the excerpt from the script again, you might be right. The way it's written makes it hard to tell if they're talking about he throne or Jon.

The article also seems to think the script is referring to the throne.

Quote

“The dragon rises up on his hind legs, towering over Jon. In a beautiful, terrifying tableaux, he roars to the sky, the embodiment of rage. He looks down at Jon. We see the fire build up in his throat. Jon sees it as well. He prepares to die. But the blast is not for him. Drogon wants to burn the world, but he will not kill Jon. He breathes fire on the back wall, blasting down what remains of the great red blocks of stone. We look over Jon’s shoulder as the fire sweeps toward the throne—not the target of Drogon’s wrath, just a dumb bystander caught up in the conflagration. We look through the blades of the throne as the flames engulf it and blast the wall behind it. We see the throne in the flames, turning red, then white, then beginning to lose its form.”

 

[BlackLightning]

On 8/9/2022 at 10:41 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

• The first season's trailers were not very good, to be honest. It feels like it was made in an earlier era of television, before YouTube drastically increased trailers' relevance, and the show was clearly banking on Sean Bean to bring in an audience. 

It was made in an earlier era of television though. There's a huge difference between 2010 and 2016

YouTube had no commercials or advertisements back in 2010. Comic Con was still for freaks and geeks only...and any adult who dressed up in costumes outside Halloween was a weirdo. And far be it that a grown man wear a superhero costume.

That stuff didn't become cool until 2015

[SeanF]

If Jon was *not* intending to kill Daenerys, when he entered the throne room, what did she say that triggered it?

”They don’t get to choose” is what every single lord would say in this world.  It’s why they ridicule the idea of giving the smallfolk a say in choosing Bran.  

I don't doubt that Dany would have been coming after Sansa.  Sansa struck at her, by revealing Jon's parentage, and she missed.  And, when you aim for the khaleesi you'd better not miss. But, at no point did Jon beg for Sansa's life, or suggest she be made to take holy orders, only for Dany to say she would show no mercy.

 

[SeanF]

29 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

That's exactly why the system of elective monarchy (especially one that is elected by an oligarchy) is so bad.

None of the benefits of a republican democracy or a monarchy but all of the downsides of both...

As well as not understanding medieval logistics, strategy, and tactics, the two D's really didn't understand medieval politics either.

[SeanF]

I may have given the impression that I loathe Samwell in the show.  I snorted coffee when a friend of mine produced this elegy for Grand Maester Tarly, following his death:

Weep for the fat pink mast — it is dead!
Oh, weep for the fat pink mast! though our tears
Thaw not the frost which binds so dear a head!
Forget the Past, its fate and fame shall be
An echo and a light unto eternity

 

[BlackLightning]

2 hours ago, SeanF said:

If Jon was *not* intending to kill Daenerys, when he entered the throne room, what did she say that triggered it?

I wasn't going to say anything until you said it...

They should have really made it clear what the reason was and what she did that set him off.

Even so, it's very weird to go from wanting to have a discussion with someone about what to do with a prisoner to stabbing someone in the heart while kissing them. Huge leap...

2 hours ago, SeanF said:

I don't doubt that Dany would have been coming after Sansa.  Sansa struck at her, by revealing Jon's parentage, and she missed.  And, when you aim for the khaleesi you'd better not miss. But, at no point did Jon beg for Sansa's life, or suggest she be made to take holy orders, only for Dany to say she would show no mercy.

This whole plotline was as brainless and as it was pointless.

Because Dany and Jon, by all respects, would have been married at this point. I still don't understand why they weren't. Jon would not have the power or influence needed to be a part of Queen Daenerys' court in King's Landing if he wasn't her husband. Like if he's not her husband and consort, why is it understood that Jon must go to court?

[The Bard of Banefort]

14 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

I wasn't going to say anything until you said it...

They should have really made it clear what the reason was and what she did that set him off.

Even so, it's very weird to go from wanting to have a discussion with someone about what to do with a prisoner to stabbing someone in the heart while kissing them. Huge leap...

This whole plotline was as brainless and as it was pointless.

Because Dany and Jon, by all respects, would have been married at this point. I still don't understand why they weren't. Jon would not have the power or influence needed to be a part of Queen Daenerys' court in King's Landing if he wasn't her husband. Like if he's not her husband and consort, why is it understood that Jon must go to court?

I wonder what the rationale for them not being married will be in the books? Maybe Jon will be worried about the freefolk’s reaction, since they have even stronger taboos against incest (no marrying within your clan)?

[EggBlue]

11 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I wonder what the rationale for them not being married will be in the books? Maybe Jon will be worried about the freefolk’s reaction, since they have even stronger taboos against incest (no marrying within your clan)?

I can't really think of anything to prevent those two from marrying each other in the books under the same circumstances ... not even incest taboos . their stories don't really seem to go in that direction anyways 

[SeanF]

18 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I wonder what the rationale for them not being married will be in the books? Maybe Jon will be worried about the freefolk’s reaction, since they have even stronger taboos against incest (no marrying within your clan)?

The obvious one to me would be if Dany really has been cursed not to have children, and she sees Jon as the means to continue the Targaryens.

[Landis]

58 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I wonder what the rationale for them not being married will be in the books? Maybe Jon will be worried about the freefolk’s reaction, since they have even stronger taboos against incest (no marrying within your clan)?

My thought has always been that there is a big Val-shaped hole in everything about the Jon-Dany narrative tbh. 

[EggBlue]

I've just started watching a season 8 fix fanfiction for the first time ( Preston Jackobs's) .right now I've only watched two episodes and it's ironic how someone who is not a professional writer could write something that's much more exciting and way more logical which makes it seem less like a fanfic than the actual show! not to mention, how much material he has put in two episodes . unlike the first half of D&D's season 8 that was utterly underwhelming and boring until episode 3 that the most important battle of the series was cramped into one episode. and my favorite part : it's an outlined season and in two episodes Jon has already had more lines and emotion than the entire season 8 . it's just upsetting that it wasn't that hard to produce something satisfying ...

[SeanF]

Just now, EggBlue said:

I've just started watching a season 8 fix fanfiction for the first time ( Preston Jackobs's) .right now I've only watched two episodes and it's ironic how someone who is not a professional writer could write something that's much more exciting and way more logical which makes it seem less like a fanfic than the actual show! not to mention, how much material he has put in two episodes . unlike the first half of D&D's season 8 that was utterly underwhelming and boring until episode 3 that the most important battle of the series was cramped into one episode. and my favorite part : it's an outlined season and in two episodes Jon has already had more lines and emotion than the entire season 8 . it's just upsetting that it wasn't that hard to produce something satisfying ...

I've read several fanfics that are way better than the fanfic produced by Ding & Dong.