Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[Kajjo]

48 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

who went from reasonable man to daughter-burning idiot

• Locking away his really sweet and clever daughter in the catacombs for years is sane for you?
• To fall for a witch who claims you are the saviour appears sane to you?
• To impregnate a witch like Melisandre to bear a shadow to kill his younger brother seems sane to you?
• Accepting burning non-believers on the stake appears sane to you? He had his doubts back than, but was mentally captured by Melisandre.

Stannis was, at least in the show, a mentally unstable man to begin with. All of the early scenes of him were weird.

He was very religious in the sense of the Lord of Light and tolerated blood magic to kill three enemies, one of them Jeoffrey. No matter whether it really worked. Stannis was portrayed as a religious nut case right from the start. In show this is consistent and crazily believable.

54 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Ramsay/Sansa (Littlefinger was made into a complete idiot just to facilitate a shocking scene with a character we knew).

How is Baelish an idiot to sell Sansa to Ramsay? He most probably knew what he did.

[Ser Hedge]

3 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

• Locking away his really sweet and clever daughter in the catacombs for years is sane for you?
• To fall for a witch who claims you are the saviour appears sane to you?
• To impregnate a witch like Melisandre to bear a shadow to kill his younger brother seems sane to you?
• Accepting burning non-believers on the stake appears sane to you? He had his doubts back than, but was mentally captured by Melisandre.

Stannis was, at least in the show, a mentally unstable man to begin with. All of the early scenes of him were weird.

He was very religious in the sense of the Lord of Light and tolerated blood magic to kill three enemies, one of them Jeoffrey. No matter whether it really worked. Stannis was portrayed as a religious nut case right from the start. In show this is consistent and crazily believable.

How is Baelish an idiot to sell Sansa to Ramsay? He most probably knew what he did.

Ok now, this is a rant thread, so please if you need to debate it, do it somewhere else. Thank You.

[Beardy the Wildling]

16 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

How is Baelish an idiot to sell Sansa to Ramsay? He most probably knew what he did.

Because he gave away a key to the North to a person who has no impetus to become allies with him and claimed to Sansa that marrying the Boltons would somehow enable her to 'avenge' her family? It was moronic.

[Beardy the Wildling]

35 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

• Locking away his really sweet and clever daughter in the catacombs for years is sane for you?
• To fall for a witch who claims you are the saviour appears sane to you?
• To impregnate a witch like Melisandre to bear a shadow to kill his younger brother seems sane to you?
• Accepting burning non-believers on the stake appears sane to you? He had his doubts back than, but was mentally captured by Melisandre.

Stannis was, at least in the show, a mentally unstable man to begin with. All of the early scenes of him were weird.

He was very religious in the sense of the Lord of Light and tolerated blood magic to kill three enemies, one of them Jeoffrey. No matter whether it really worked. Stannis was portrayed as a religious nut case right from the start. In show this is consistent and crazily believable.

To be fair, you're right that Stannis was always consistently portrayed as worse than his book counterpart (Renly outright said he'd enjoy killing Stannis in the books, prompting an understandable retaliation, Stannis is probably an atheist and views Melisandre's magic as a means to an end, he only burns statues to the seven and traitors/capial criminals) but wrong to think that it's good writing to go 'Look at how much Stannis loves his daughter, LOL FOOLED YOU ONTO THE PYRE SHE GOES'. It isn't even portrayed as being for a good reason (unlike, say, taking out a powerful adversary like Renly), Winterfell was apparently 20 minutes away.

[kissdbyfire]

When did this thread turn into a discussion thread? Why am I reading explanations on how awesome the show is, and how things make perfect sense?

[divica]

1 hour ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

I respectfully disagree regarding Stannis (who went from reasonable man to daughter-burning idiot over a camp attack when he was apparently two minutes away from Winterfell, and Ramsay abandoned the tactically superior position inside Winterfell to meet them on the field... twice, and is only punished for it once, unsurprisingly the time the 'good guys' attack) and Ramsay/Sansa (Littlefinger was made into a complete idiot just to facilitate a shocking scene with a character we knew).

I think the stannis idea was good but its execution was terrible.

I like the idea of stannis sacrificing shereen for a greater porpuse. It can be to garantee his victory against someone because he believes he is AA and is destined to defeat the others and therefore can t die or in order to garantee some early victory agains the others. Him doing it without the feeling of certain death if he doesn t burn her is just wrong.

And the problem with sansa is that the whole series of events that led to the wedding was incredibly stupid. There wasn t a plan behind their actions! Hell I would be happy if sansa wanted to marry ramsay and then poison the boltons and become the warden of the north… And even worse is that this brillant idea completly eliminated the vale from the story and made sansa destroy jon, LF and arya's story arcs. Wherever sansa was the story of other characters sufered...

[The Fattest Leech]

Friends, Ranters, Countryfolk... let's keep this train rolling without any bumps in the tracks.

This is a rant without repercussions thread

[Dragons Are Real]

3 hours ago, Kajjo said:

I agree that the writing for S8 was below standard, but the writing in S1-S6 was fine. I liked the Stannis arc and I particularly liked the Ramsay/Sansa story line. 

D&D did some really good story additions back then, e.g. the Tywin/Arya dialogues in Harrenhal. 

No.  Season 5 on was painful at points because the writing was absolutely garbage.  Sometimes the actors could make up for it, but nothing can make up for crap like Arya's "training" turning into the terminator chase.

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

When did this thread turned into a discussion thread? Why am I reading explanations on how awesome the show is, and how things make perfect sense?

A certain someone can't help themselves.

Honestly, the Stannis storyline may, possibly, have had some potential, but two things made it turn to soft-serve icecream on top of a pile of stinking garbage in the summer sun.  First, the "make it appear he loves his daughter he's kept locked up most of her life right before the *BIG SHOCKING TWIST* burnination.  And second, the dickbag creators literally saying publicly they absolutely DESPISED Stannis's character in the books, the actor attempting to reconcile his show character with his book character, and this eventually lead them to also hate the actor to the point they wanted him to go out like a bitch.

That's not just purposeful bad practice when writing, it's self-destructive at a near nuclear level, and it's not the only time they did it.  Barristan comes to mind instantly as another example of an actor that loved the character, tried to discuss potential with the creators, and got the early axe for it just so they could swing the mighty dick of power and prove how in charge they were.

Anybody thinking the end result is good writing doesn't really have a leg to stand on.

[divica]

41 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

Honestly, the Stannis storyline may, possibly, have had some potential, but two things made it turn to soft-serve icecream on top of a pile of stinking garbage in the summer sun.  First, the "make it appear he loves his daughter he's kept locked up most of her life right before the *BIG SHOCKING TWIST* burnination.  And second, the dickbag creators literally saying publicly they absolutely DESPISED Stannis's character in the books, the actor attempting to reconcile his show character with his book character, and this eventually lead them to also hate the actor to the point they wanted him to go out like a bitch.

By the way. S8 is so so so bad that it also makes stanis storyline even worse. Why didn t mel use the swords on fire trick or the incenerating stuff magic there? Wouldn t it be more usefull than ascrificing shireen?

[Beardy the Wildling]

52 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

No.  Season 5 on was painful at points because the writing was absolutely garbage.  Sometimes the actors could make up for it, but nothing can make up for crap like Arya's "training" turning into the terminator chase.

The Arya chase scene, and Arya post-season 4 in general, was utterly unsalvageable. I don't know why D&D thought Arya was a sympathetic viewpoint for King's Landing's destruction when literally any extra would be more sympathetic than her. Then again, I think one of the Ds badly wanted something from Maisie Williams, given how she was thrown Ed Sheeran and the Night King kill, as well as a handsome bloke getting on one knee and telling her she's beautiful.

52 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

That's not just purposeful bad practice when writing, it's self-destructive at a near nuclear level, and it's not the only time they did it.  Barristan comes to mind instantly as another example of an actor that loved the character, tried to discuss potential with the creators, and got the early axe for it just so they could swing the mighty dick of power and prove how in charge they were.

Anybody thinking the end result is good writing doesn't really have a leg to stand on.

D&D are such a spiteful little pair, especially Benioff. He outright bragged about:

1: Not having any real writing qualifications and tricking GRRM.

2: Thinking that themes are stupid.

3: 'Wanting to kill Barristan off even more' after his actor was looking forward to getting a juicy plot.

Fuck him. Just fuck him.

[Nowy Tends]

4 hours ago, Kajjo said:

 I liked the Stannis arc

Come on, it's not an arc, It's a waterslide towards the exit. Good run and bye bye, baddy Stannis.

[Nowy Tends]

3 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

When did this thread turned into a discussion thread? 

Yeah, discussion is for 8th grade book reports, it is known! 

[Ser Hedge]

Can I rant about the rant thread no longer being a rant thread ? 

[It_spelt_Magalhaes]

Stuff this. For a show that wanted to make people think, we ended up having either 'ha! Fooled ya!' storylines or what passes for 'hints' in D&D speak. 

See the Arya thing. Paint by numbers. 

[Beardy the Wildling]

27 minutes ago, It_spelt_Magalhaes said:

Stuff this. For a show that wanted to make people think, we ended up having either 'ha! Fooled ya!' storylines or what passes for 'hints' in D&D speak. 

See the Arya thing. Paint by numbers. 

Not only that, it actively punishes you for having paid attention and thought about the show. To quote Glidus:

Another quote from this vid that's fitting is 'I'm guessing that's my fault for having paid attention'. Because... yeah, that's what D&D think, you're a dumb nerd for doing a better job than them.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

So, it IS still Rant and Rave and all the rules that go with it, right?  I'm catching up and feeling as if.............I'm LOST?  Then again, LOST winds up looking damn perfect compared to what this show has been serving up for the past few years, and then in the final season times 10.  Anyhoo..........

Has anyone posted these pics?  It almost seems as if Emilia is trying to keep Kit as ease while he has to act out, and then carry, this atrocity with him. 

 

Note the knife in her chest, and the looks on his face as she seems to try to laugh and cheer him through that mess. 

[Ser Hedge]

2 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

So, it IS still Rant and Rave and all the rules that go with it, right? 

Yes, the Red God is still owed many millions more of Rrrants. The Red God will not be denied. 

[Hodor's Dragon]

8 hours ago, Kajjo said:

So what? What's your point? She made a horrible decision with "let it be fear". She wanted to instill fear, more so than just winning the single battle.  Awful. 

"Let it be fear" is just the absurdly tiny fig leaf they threw up to cover the pasty, shriveled genitalia of what was left of the plot. It wasn't just a "horrible decision," it was completely senseless. "Fear" is laughable as a so-called motivation for what she did.

Just spare 5 seconds to think this thing through. It is so, so easy to instill fear with dragons, and there are so many ways you can influence them to get people to do things you want to do.  Why use them to inflict massive destruction and suffering of a sort that doesn't take a single step toward your supposed goal? Especially when you are in fact operating counter to your supposed motivation when you show people that what you plan to do with your dragons is destroy cities that surrender? No other city will ever surrender after such a colossal blunder.

I assume you aren't positing that imposing fear had suddenly become a goal in itself, unrelated to its efficiency in achieving control of the realm. Such a thing would obviously be a complete 180 for her character.

 

[Beardy the Wildling]

15 minutes ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

"Let it be fear" is just the absurdly tiny fig leaf they threw up to cover the pasty, shriveled genitalia of what was left of the plot. It wasn't just a "horrible decision," it was completely senseless. "Fear" is laughable as a so-called motivation for what she did.

Just spare 5 seconds to think this thing through. It is so, so easy to instill fear with dragons, and there are so many ways you can influence them to get people to do things you want to do.  Why use them to inflict massive destruction and suffering of a sort that doesn't take a single step toward your supposed goal? Especially when you are in fact operating counter to your supposed motivation when you show people that what you plan to do with your dragons is destroy cities that surrender? No other city will ever surrender after such a colossal blunder.

 I assume you aren't positing that imposing fear had suddenly become a goal in itself, unrelated to its efficiency in achieving control of the realm. Such a thing would obviously be a complete 180 for her character.

 

Also, 'let it be fear' wasn't even the excuse D&D came up with, that's something fans came up with because it makes infinitely more sense than D&D. D&D's (remember, the writers of this mess) hot take is that seeing the Red Keep made her decide to 'make it personal'. Whatever that means.

Regardless of what it means, it doesn't mean 'make it personal enough that she specifically targets the Red Keep' because she attacks literally everything else first.

[Ser Hedge]

She could have called off the airstrike at the last minute too .... ah, no, I didn't say that, no, no, back to ranting:

D&D write S7 and 8

Writer who wasn't complete crap at the start of the series: Right. That's season 6 done. I heard you guys want to wrap it in 2 more. Jon's KitN with the Vale tagging along, Dany's got a massive army, and  the Reach and Dorne. Cersei's just blown up a lot of nobility, can't see her lasting long with a handful of Lannister soldiers left, now that it looks like the Freys are gone. How does it play out from here? I'm guessing the NK overruns the 7K?

D1: huh? We don't want the NK messing stuff up man, this is Game of Thrones, man.

W: Ok, so Jon takes out the NK? Dany helps him?

D2: Yeah, kinda, but they need to convince Cersei.

W: wtf for? Dany can probably take out Cersei before breakfast. The Starks not going to interfere with that either.

D2: Hey, asshole, what do you mean Cersei gets taken out? You trying to ruin the show?

W: errr.... ok, I guess Cersei's got Euron's navy. Oh, ok, Euron's got magic right? Does he get control of Dany's dragons?

D1: Even better, he gets Yara.

W: errr, ok. So?

D2: Man even, even better he gets that Dornish babe too.

W: err, ok, but the Dornish army's not going to be on ships right? So someone takes over?

D2: The viewers don't care about the Dornish army, they never seen no Dornish army, they only care about those babes, if Euron gets them, he's the big bad.

W: Ah, and the Tyrells and Dany's huge army and 3 dragons?

D1: Man, just find a way for her to mess it up.

W: Ok, I'll think of something, how bad you want it messed up? Does she keep the Dothraki and Unsullied on her island then - sounds like you're saying Euron controls the seas.

D2: Man, you really are dumb. Those guys are ethnics. They have to have some scenes. And Dany has to win a battle with her dragon and her foreigners, preferably the horse guys. She has to look foreign and have her dragon shot down as foreshadowing.

W: woooaaaa, what happens to the dragon ?

D1: He's fine. The boss said foreshadowing, what's the matter, can't you listen?

W: And she wins the battle? Why not take KL?

D2: Man, just figure something out. She needs to go north of the wall and lose a dragon there so the NK gets through the wall. That's what they want to see  - a Zombie dragon!

D1: And a zombie polar bear!

W: Ah, so she and Jon are a thing then, eh? Oh, but Bran would probably know about Jon's parentage then. Will he see her as family then?

D2: Bit of everything, she has to go mad in the end and Jon has to kill her.

W: .......

D1: George

W: Ok, then make her mad sooner, no? We have two seasons.

D2: No, no, everybody wants to see Dragons Vs Zombies. And you can't have the Dany fans getting worked up before S8 starts. She's going to be totally awesome in S7, saving Jon's ass and falling in love with him, and helping to save the North.

W: So the Dragons burn the NK?

D1: No, that would be too easy. He's fireproof, but we want Arya to stab him.

W: .....

D2: Yeah that's one big battle in S8 and in the next one Dany takes it to Cersei.

W: So two Mad Queens duking it out?

D2: Who's the second?

W: err Dany?

D2: I know that asshole, who's the other mad one?

W: Cersei obviously.

D2: Hey, you want me to fire you? Who tf said Cersei is mad?

W: Ok, whatever. So Dany fighting with her armies and two dragons and no Westerosi?

D1: One dragon. Euron shoots the other.

W: Shoots? Why not use a dragon horn ....

D2: Hey, shut up, ok? We want that dragon dead and gone. We want her to turn mad.

W: ok, but where did Jon come from?

D1: He's there too.

W: If he knows she's mad, why is he fighting for her.

D1: No one's sure if she is mad or not, until she torches everyone in KL.

W: Oh wow, I guess she had to do that to get to Cersei's soldiers .....

D2: No, Cersei's soldiers are already dead and the rest are surrendering.

W: Then, why?

D1: We told you, she's mad.

D2: And then she gives a Nazi speech.

W: (totally resigned at this point) Right. Then Jon kills her.

D1: See, you're starting to get it.

W: whatever.

D1: And Bran becomes King. Write that in as well.

W: I don't suppose you want Bron to be Warden of the South, Lord Paramount of the Reach and Master of coin, eh? Ha, ha, ha ....

D2: That would have been a great idea, but I thought of it first. 

D1: You did?

D2: I did, so put that in as well and it's a wrap.