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Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

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Now the GOT panel has potential. I expect D&D to put the blame on grrm. That he was the one that decided to end the story that way and there was nothing they could do...

 

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Now that I think about it, we're kidding ourselves if we think anything really interesting is gonna happen at that Comic Con panel. I'm pretty sure HBO  know how to control situations like these, they will make sure it's a very safe and comfortable environment for D+D.

Any audience member who looks like they're gonna take an accusatory or combative tone during the Q&A will be shown the door. I'm sure people will be able to ask questions about the story and plotting, but D+D's PR skills are good enough by this point that they'll be able to talk their way around the really tricky questions. Plus they'll be backed up by the cast, who will probably intercept most of the challenging questions anyway.

In the end, I suspect it will work out pretty well for D+D PR-wise, much better than staying in hiding would have. There's not likely to be any dramatic "gotcha" moments where they crumble and admit they rushed out a dog's breakfast of a script so they could get it over with and move onto Star Wars.

They'll probably be prepared for most of the questions that will come their way, so the questions are gonna have to be cleverly framed if anyone's hoping to catch them off guard. Probably the best way to get the point across would be to frame it in the form of a joke question, like "were you worried that Dany 'sort of forgetting' about the Iron Fleet would give away the big twist that she was actually insane all along?"

 

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3 hours ago, divica said:

Now the GOT panel has potential. I expect D&D to put the blame on grrm. That he was the one that decided to end the story that way and there was nothing they could do...

 

I doubt they'll stoop so low. They'll just fall back on the stock standard safe response of "well the book and show are different things, and if you make your own show one day, you can adapt a book however you want it".

Of course, that's a massive cop-out response in my view, because how many plots and characters from the books can you mangle before you start to wonder why you even bothered adapting it in the first place, and maybe you should have just created your own story instead of riding off someone else's license? But there'll be no use telling the people at Comic Con that.

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1 hour ago, Darryk said:

I doubt they'll stoop so low. They'll just fall back on the stock standard safe response of "well the book and show are different things, and if you make your own show one day, you can adapt a book however you want it".

Of course, that's a massive cop-out response in my view, because how many plots and characters from the books can you mangle before you start to wonder why you even bothered adapting it in the first place, and maybe you should have just created your own story instead of riding off someone else's license? But there'll be no use telling the people at Comic Con that.

The problem is that the critics aren t about diferences between the show and the books. Just the story and dialogues of the show by themselves were awful. Like what was the point of ressurecting jon and having him go to danny? Neither of them played an important role in the battle and the NK wouldn t have had a dragon to destroy the Wall nor the thousands of dothriaki that died in the first 10 seconds of the battle… (and there are dozens of problems like this one because of s8)

1 hour ago, Darryk said:

Now that I think about it, we're kidding ourselves if we think anything really interesting is gonna happen at that Comic Con panel. I'm pretty sure HBO  know how to control situations like these, they will make sure it's a very safe and comfortable environment for D+D.

Any audience member who looks like they're gonna take an accusatory or combative tone during the Q&A will be shown the door. I'm sure people will be able to ask questions about the story and plotting, but D+D's PR skills are good enough by this point that they'll be able to talk their way around the really tricky questions. Plus they'll be backed up by the cast, who will probably intercept most of the challenging questions anyway.

In the end, I suspect it will work out pretty well for D+D PR-wise, much better than staying in hiding would have. There's not likely to be any dramatic "gotcha" moments where they crumble and admit they rushed out a dog's breakfast of a script so they could get it over with and move onto Star Wars.

They'll probably be prepared for most of the questions that will come their way, so the questions are gonna have to be cleverly framed if anyone's hoping to catch them off guard. Probably the best way to get the point across would be to frame it in the form of a joke question, like "were you worried that Dany 'sort of forgetting' about the Iron Fleet would give away the big twist that she was actually insane all along?"

 

I think they will be "boooed" or insulted when they appear/start talking for the first time. They completly ruined the biggest show on earth. It is very rare to have a comunity this big completly hating the end of a saga. I don t believe people won t seek explanations about why they made such terrible choices… I don t think the star wars project wont be mentioned. Someone will acuse them of ditching GOT to work on SW and they ruined the show because of that… there is just so much to throw at D&D that if people really want they will be humiliated...

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With 206,000 votes cast, the Iron Throne now has a 4.2 rating on IMDB.

I don't know what proportion  of fans were pissed off with Season 8, but it must be a high one.

WRT Comicon, I'd say there are some good questions on the Ask D & D thread.

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16 hours ago, Nowy Tends said:

I know nothing about these "Comic Con" things (and it sounds really weird in French :blink:); can anyone just buy a ticket and attend?

In this case, can we reasonably expect that someone in the audience will have the courage to ring a bell of shame when D&D appears? I would be happy to do so if I lived in California…

I love that idea.  "Shame, shame on the sinners!"

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The problem is that the critics aren t about diferences between the show and the books. Just the story and dialogues of the show by themselves were awful. Like what was the point of ressurecting jon and having him go to danny? Neither of them played an important role in the battle and the NK wouldn t have had a dragon to destroy the Wall nor the thousands of dothriaki that died in the first 10 seconds of the battle… (and there are dozens of problems like this one because of s8)

I completely agree of course, the mangling of of book plots and characters is something only book readers noticed during the first four seasons, but from season 5 onward the show struggled to stand even on its own merits, culminating in the trainwreck of season 8 where it no longer even appealed to casual watchers, while still mangling book plots and characters even worse than before.

Will anyone be given a chance to point this out to them during the Comic Con panel, though? I doubt it. The PR spin on the whole thing will be that book readers just weren't happy their theories didn't pan out, and casual watchers just weren't happy that it wasn't a happy ending. That's the narrative they're gonna stick to and anyone who seeks to challenge it at Comic Con will be quickly ushered away from the microphone.

The alternative is they go all mea culpa and say "it was a tough job and we admit we weren't up to it, sorry for disappointing you guys", but does anyone really see that happening?

I think they will be "boooed" or insulted when they appear/start talking for the first time. They completly ruined the biggest show on earth. It is very rare to have a comunity this big completly hating the end of a saga. I don t believe people won t seek explanations about why they made such terrible choices… I don t think the star wars project wont be mentioned. Someone will acuse them of ditching GOT to work on SW and they ruined the show because of that… there is just so much to throw at D&D that if people really want they will be humiliated...

But they themselves must have considered that possibility, so I can't imagine they'd agree to come to Comic Con unless HBO or someone else assured them that wouldn't be allowed to happen. Surely they're not in so much of a bubble that they're not aware of the massive backlash against season 8? I mean HBO cancelled the release of the Inside the Episode segment for the finale, so clearly they're well aware of what's going on and are trying to contain the situation.

The internet will ever and always be the only place for people like us to vent; big companies and PR agencies are too good at controlling the narrative in the physical world. 

 

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56 minutes ago, Darryk said:

But they themselves must have considered that possibility, so I can't imagine they'd agree to come to Comic Con unless HBO or someone else assured them that wouldn't be allowed to happen. Surely they're not in so much of a bubble that they're not aware of the massive backlash against season 8? I mean HBO cancelled the release of the Inside the Episode segment for the finale, so clearly they're well aware of what's going on and are trying to contain the situation.

The internet will ever and always be the only place for people like us to vent; big companies and PR agencies are too good at controlling the narrative in the physical world. 

First we are talking about the company that payed to film those scripts and publicized the battle of winterfell and the NK as if they were awesome and the most important thing ever for over a year. So clearly HBO and its pr department aren t that good...

And I think D&D probably are contractually obligated to appear. I mean, they have nothing to gain to go there… Either it will be a shitshow or there will be more online backlash because of their posture ignoring that s8 sucked… At best their appearence wont create new waves…

Personally, as I said I think they will say that it was how grrm wanted the show to end and that was the best way they could do link their and grrm's visions. That they didn t agree with some of the things that happened but that it was the story that the author wanted. Ignoring the elephant in the room will have more negative effects because there will be hundreds of online articles about that online...

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Posted (edited)
Quote

First we are talking about the company that payed to film those scripts and publicized the battle of winterfell and the NK as if they were awesome and the most important thing ever for over a year. So clearly HBO and its pr department aren t that good...

Well the purpose of PR essentially is to lie really well, not to tell the truth, so by convincing us the Battle of Winterfell was gonna be awesome, they actually did their job pretty well.

Quote

And I think D&D probably are contractually obligated to appear. I mean, they have nothing to gain to go there… Either it will be a shitshow or there will be more online backlash because of their posture ignoring that s8 sucked… At best their appearence wont create new waves…

Well they originally weren't going to appear. I think maybe someone advised them that refusing to appear in public was only doing their image more damage. At first glance they don't have much to gain by going, but I think the mere act of appearing in public and showing they're willing to defend their work, and then getting through the panel without losing their composure, will be considered a PR victory for them.

How much they're actually going to defend their work and how much will just be deflecting and evading questions remains to be seen, but unfortunately, PR is all about appearances, not substance. So long as they APPEAR to be defending it, it's a win for them.

Quote

Personally, as I said I think they will say that it was how grrm wanted the show to end and that was the best way they could do link their and grrm's visions. That they didn t agree with some of the things that happened but that it was the story that the author wanted. Ignoring the elephant in the room will have more negative effects because there will be hundreds of online articles about that online...

Well if they try to deflect blame to GRRM it will backfire on them horribly and end up a massive PR disaster.

And why would they need to do that when they can just resort to safe, standard answers like "well the book and the show are different things..", "you're never going to please everyone", blablablabla etc etc...

 

Edited by Darryk

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1 hour ago, Darryk said:

Well if they try to deflect blame to GRRM it will backfire on them horribly and end up a massive PR disaster.

And why would they need to do that when they can just resort to safe, standard answers like "well the book and the show are different things..", "you're never going to please everyone", blablablabla etc etc...

But if they go that route the next day there are hundreds of articles and millions of angry fans on the net talking about how D&D are ignoring the real problems with season 8 or why everyone hates it. 

They are just restarting the hate train by doing that… THAT is the reason why I don t see how them appearing can be positive for them. It doesn t matter if they control what happens in the comic con. When the whole world analises what they said it will bite them in the ass…

Them being evasive is worse than them being silent… They need to give some anwers about the decisions they made… And saying that it was the ending grrm wanted is kind of the only thing they can say for a lot of the decisions they made in the last ep… I would say that the objective will be to transmit the idea that grrm gave them a crap ending and they failed to lead the story to that point… So eveyone is to blame...

1 hour ago, Darryk said:

Well the purpose of PR essentially is to lie really well, not to tell the truth, so by convincing us the Battle of Winterfell was gonna be awesome, they actually did their job pretty well.

No. They made everyone believe that something would be awesome and huge and it sucked. Then there was no hype for the last 3 eps of the season making people hating them even more. Part of the hate for GOT is because how this season was publicised… 

PR should try to make something better than it actually is. It can t just lie to people or give them expectations that won t be met because then people won t like the show… Besides the fact that if they wanted the game of thrones to be the high point of the series then PR should have focused on THAT! By lying they just make us hate the show more after we see it...

Edited by divica

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1 hour ago, divica said:

But if they go that route the next day there are hundreds of articles and millions of angry fans on the net talking about how D&D are ignoring the real problems with season 8 or why everyone hates it. 

They are just restarting the hate train by doing that… THAT is the reason why I don t see how them appearing can be positive for them. It doesn t matter if they control what happens in the comic con. When the whole world analises what they said it will bite them in the ass…

Them being evasive is worse than them being silent… They need to give some anwers about the decisions they made… And saying that it was the ending grrm wanted is kind of the only thing they can say for a lot of the decisions they made in the last ep… I would say that the objective will be to transmit the idea that grrm gave them a crap ending and they failed to lead the story to that point… So eveyone is to blame...

I agree with most of that...there's a portion of the fanbase, especially people here and on Reddit, who will see through whatever excuses they make and whatever performance they try to put on at Comic Con. 

But if they appear at Comic Con and manage to get through it without losing their composure, and manage to bullshit their way through whatever challenging questions are put to them about their story decisions, then they'll look better in the eyes of the larger, more casual audience. I've seen this work, with other Film and TV productions that received massive fan backlash. If you stay in hiding then everyone can see you've got no defence, but if you go out in public and give some good bullshit answers, then the less analytical among the audience will shrug and say "well, I guess that makes sense" without really thinking about it.

It won't work on us, though. We've seen enough behind the scenes interviews with them, and fan reviews picking apart all the story decisions they made, to know that they simply weren't cut out for adapting such rich source material. Aside from simply not being up to the job, which by itself would be forgivable if they at least put in a good effort, they could also be accused of simply not giving a shit about anything since the Red Wedding (which interviews lead one to believe was their sole motivation for adapting the series), and of completely botching the final season through sheer arrogant negligence.

If they really try to take the angle of "well this is the ending GRRM wanted and nothing we could do about it", they'll be absolutely pilloried though. It would be much worse than if they simply evaded questions or tried the "we were never gonna please everyone" approach, because it will make them look gross and unprofessional as well as incompetent. And it won't work as an excuse anyway, firstly because they'd have to reveal the specific plot points that GRRM told them, which they've promised not to do, and secondly because most of the criticism is directed at how badly executed the ending was, not the concept of the ending, which many agree could have worked if executed better.

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25 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

This video is a thing of beauty, especially if anyone has spent time with Bob Ross on PBS after a weekend all nighter, LOL 

 

:lol: I wonder, did people forget about season 6 Vaes Dothrak? Or did they just tell themselves that in the show, VD moves, so it's all good. Then King's Landing moved.

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On 6/29/2019 at 5:59 PM, Darryk said:

 

But if they appear at Comic Con and manage to get through it without losing their composure, and manage to bullshit their way through whatever challenging questions are put to them about their story decisions, then they'll look better in the eyes of the larger, more casual audience. I've seen this work, with other Film and TV productions that received massive fan backlash. If you stay in hiding then everyone can see you've got no defence, but if you go out in public and give some good bullshit answers, then the less analytical among the audience will shrug and say "well, I guess that makes sense" without really thinking about it.

That's how Zack Snyder got a get-out-of-jail-free on Batman, ie, the dark vigilante who draws the line at murder, murdering his enemies. You know, by saying 'LOL, you idiots looking up to heroes idealistically, you're living in a dream world, I want everything to be dark and realistic, and for me, realistic = completely different to the source material. Fucking fantards, amirite?'

And the audience clapped.

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1 minute ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

That's how Zack Snyder got a get-out-of-jail-free on Batman, ie, the dark vigilante who draws the line at murder, murdering his enemies. You know, by saying 'LOL, you idiots looking up to heroes idealistically, you're living in a dream world, I want everything to be dark and realistic, and for me, realistic = completely different to the source material. Fucking fantards, amirite?'

And the audience clapped.

Yeah. How are Batman DCEU's continuity prospects these days?

The fans, good, bad, ugly and internet, are the buying public. Eventually, people get tired of pealing the apple and finding an orange inside. And a rotten one at that. 

I like cooking shows, sue me. I adore watching people struggle to present a plate of what looks like forest floor but is actually a chocolate dessert. But it 'was' alwayd meant to be a dessert that people bought at the chef's restaurant. 

We bought something that didn't come anywhere near the original product (which yeah, adaptation), but also fell really short of earlier parts of the same. 

We're airing our grievances. This wasn't 'at your own risk'. This was good, some say the best show ever. We bought upon a promise of continued quality. 

My forest floor dessert had actual dirt in it.

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1 hour ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

That's how Zack Snyder got a get-out-of-jail-free on Batman, ie, the dark vigilante who draws the line at murder, murdering his enemies. You know, by saying 'LOL, you idiots looking up to heroes idealistically, you're living in a dream world, I want everything to be dark and realistic, and for me, realistic = completely different to the source material. Fucking fantards, amirite?'

And the audience clapped.

If I recall correctly, he also threw in some kind of reference to the Iraq War as well, basically comparing Batman fans to people who think "their leaders don't lie to them". What a pretentious douche bag. I never liked Zack Snyder as a filmmaker.

Makes me angry knowing D+D will probably get away with the same trick. Can see it now: "well we're just really bold storytellers and the fans just don't like that the ending didn't turn out the way they wanted, but you know, that's what Game of Thrones is about"...cue cheering, applause and rave reviews about their comic con performance from HBO plants. (PS. I still like HBO and don't hold them responsible for the season 8 mess but I'm not naive enough to think they won't try whatever PR tactics they can to defend their boys, as Disney did with Star Wars episode VIII)

 

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The Bob Ross video gave me legit LOLs, but it is a missed opportunity.  Somewhere out there is an episode where he paints a stormy seaside at night and he's talking about the angry rocks, and the harsh winds, and the frightful waves crashing violently against the shore, beating the sands to ever smaller grains.  Dude was clearly having a bad day, and that video would have been the perfect blend of angst and WTF to set off the ending of Game of Thrones.

My guess on the comic con appearance is it will either be D&D being themselves and totally missing the digs at their expense, it will be a "curated" question period with heavy pre-screening, or it will be a complete shit-show when they break in the face of a fandom that won't be pandered to.  I sincerely hope it's option three, but I have my doubts.

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1 minute ago, Dragons Are Real said:

The Bob Ross video gave me legit LOLs, but it is a missed opportunity.  Somewhere out there is an episode where he paints a stormy seaside at night and he's talking about the angry rocks, and the harsh winds, and the frightful waves crashing violently against the shore, beating the sands to ever smaller grains.  Dude was clearly having a bad day, and that video would have been the perfect blend of angst and WTF to set off the ending of Game of Thrones.

My guess on the comic con appearance is it will either be D&D being themselves and totally missing the digs at their expense, it will be a "curated" question period with heavy pre-screening, or it will be a complete shit-show when they break in the face of a fandom that won't be pandered to.  I sincerely hope it's option three, but I have my doubts.

Wouldn't it be great if people started pelting them with rotten fruit?

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