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The Fattest Leech

Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

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OS MAIAS is difficult and one maybe understands about three-quarters of the words on a very good day; but I hadn't thought of it as being dry. I do find Carlos not very likeable a lot of the time. (But turning it into a Textbook probably ruins it.)

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People tend to fixate on the long winded descriptions of the lab equipment and the stern morals of Carlos' grandfather. The boy is an idiot, but what can you do about it. His bourgeois life had him bored and too infantilized to actually be more than a boy.

Personally I did laugh at the bits where life in society Lisbon becomes something of a comedy of horrors, like Salcede's stupidity and the spanish mistress. 

Being forced to read and dissect it as fifteen year olds erases most, if any, enjoyment out of it for about everyone. 

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LOTR has it flaws (the green soap bubbles of death, skateboarding Legolas, and the editing of the last hour of ROTK) but mostly holds up very well.

But, Peter Jackson wanted to make something great, and loved the source material.   I don't think that's true of D & D.

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2 hours ago, SeanF said:

LOTR has it flaws (the green soap bubbles of death, skateboarding Legolas, and the editing of the last hour of ROTK) but mostly holds up very well.

But, Peter Jackson wanted to make something great, and loved the source material.   I don't think that's true of D & D.

Agreed. Nothing is perfect, but that was damn good. It was a faithful adaptation of a well-loved fantasy.

The proof is in the pudding (aka the work itself), and the Game of Thrones pudding fell flat as a pancake.

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Posted (edited)

Part 2:

Here's part 1 again:

 

Edited by Le Cygne

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I heard a good theory about how slimey Samwell survived the Battle of Winterfell, despite running around weeping and crying, and generally acting like a bitch.

The zombies took one look at him, and realised, if they killed him, he'd be joining their ranks, and they thought "no f+cking way."  That's right, they wanted no part of Samwell Tarly, so they let him live.

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Definitely their swords. It's a thing he does. (Maybe THAT explains the maester chains! Maybe he just ... borrowed them!)

Meanwhile, I'm watching the new Lindsay Ellis video, and here's something interesting in the script:

"If this is liberation, he [Tyrion] doesn't believe in liberation theology."

I'm starting to wonder if Benioff's being what the Dragon calls a trust fund brat has anything to do with how things played out.

 

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On 8/13/2019 at 6:17 PM, Cas Stark said:

GRRM is nothing if not a world class rationalizer.  He raationalized himself right out of finishing his own story, and then rationalized that it didn't matter anyway, so it shouldn't be that surprising that he has now, and for some time, been rationalizing that GOT is great, he said as much on the 60 Minutes interview where he called it more faithful that 97% of adaptations. He has always gloried in it's success and the Emmys, that is nothing new.  The people who were hoping he would call out the show and state for the record that XYZ won't happen in my future books were fooling themselves.  Whatever distaste he has for GOT and how it went off the rails in season 5, he has subsumed into the same locked door of his mind where he put the issue of failing to get Winds out in 2015.  In my opinion.

He can rationalize and accept a lot of things but he shouldn t lose his integrity. 

Any reporter that wanted to embarrass him only has to use his comments about lost and then compare it to GOT... Hells, I have no idea why no one in the media made a big deal about this 

 

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On 8/14/2019 at 1:04 AM, It_spelt_Magalhaes said:

You won't see me claim LotR was perfect. Far from it. I still occasionally break out the extended edition dvds and bonge he damn thing. Yes, in one sitting. Green goop ghosts and all, yes.

 Peter Jackson and co. did the unthinkable and made fantasy feasible, big budget wise and quality too. They put well over a generation back on 'reading the classics' and for once, well over the original fan base flocked to theatres, bajillions of copies were sold, new marathon traditions were established.

What I'm going for with my last post is that, for GoT, initial fumbles or no, the potential for cult following and respect as a TV show was there. Somewhere along the way though, the sacrifice for more viewers and increased popularity was... the fantasy itself, the inner machinations of the characters. Sure there were dragons and a mythos built on magical threat, but it was an action show. Sure there was plot, but it was soap opera style intrigue worthy of local shows that win International Emmy awards. (!) Watched by the same crowds flocking to a title fight, championship game or the latest blockbuster. Once you get to that point you drink the cup to the end, knowing the bitter is in the last few drops.

Mass entertainment has repeatedly shown to not give a bleeding fig about consistency or lasting quality. LotR had the amazing luck of being done in one sitting. Despite it all, the 'money' would've spoken louder if the time had been given for 'them' to interfere.

See: The Hobbit.

GoT ran for way too long to not be 'improved' by the industry itself. Despite the effort and quality of work of so many of those involved, I personally will always prefer to be a cynic even when looking back.

GRRM's 97% comment rings especially true once you dive into the obscure realm of 'adaptation' in so many countries and litteratures and traditions.

'Os Maias' - arguably one of the densest romance novels on the 'must read if you want to pass English', or Portuguese as the case might be, must've been 'adapted' over a dozen times or more, not counting actual community theatre. The complex intergenerational conflict and social critique tends to stay at a couple anecdotes or is plainly ignored.

The scandalous incest sex and mistaken identity fiasco remains really popular, though, and mostly turns an over five hundred page dry as dust novel most highschoolers hate with a fiery passion into an NC17 screwfest between Carlos and the woman he inicially doesn’t know is his sister. Sound familiar?

Honnestly, I Don t think it is a huge problem for the industry to make changes when it adapts books. What is good and works in a book doesn t necessarily work in tv/cinema.

For example, in a book we pay much more attention to details, descriptions, names and the plots can be very complex. In tv/cinema we tend to pay more attention to the visuals and forget/ignore details we only hear about... And I won t even start on time division... 

To me the important thing is to have a coherent story. And despite all its flaws LOTR is coherent. Even the hobbit is coherent despite being garbage. Both this movies are watchable and can be a cult. 

GOT isn t coherent. That is its biggest flaw... I can t watch something that I know doesn t make sense... I can t theorize or spend time thinking about it... And to add salt to injury the conclusion to most of the stories in GOT was awful. This season gave the fans absolutely nothing... 

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17 hours ago, Count Balerion said:

Definitely their swords. It's a thing he does. (Maybe THAT explains the maester chains! Maybe he just ... borrowed them!)

Meanwhile, I'm watching the new Lindsay Ellis video, and here's something interesting in the script:

"If this is liberation, he [Tyrion] doesn't believe in liberation theology."

I'm starting to wonder if Benioff's being what the Dragon calls a trust fund brat has anything to do with how things played out.

 

I now think that they did expect us to sympathise with the slave traders who lost out to Daenerys (and note, most fans tend to criticise her for being too lenient with them, rather than too harsh), and to think "there but for the grace of God go I."

A couple of hundred years ago, quite a lot of people would have bought into that argument. Today, not so many.

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20 hours ago, Count Balerion said:

Definitely their swords. It's a thing he does. (Maybe THAT explains the maester chains! Maybe he just ... borrowed them!)

Meanwhile, I'm watching the new Lindsay Ellis video, and here's something interesting in the script:

"If this is liberation, he [Tyrion] doesn't believe in liberation theology."

I'm starting to wonder if Benioff's being what the Dragon calls a trust fund brat has anything to do with how things played out.

 

Yes, I noticed that too. Just another smug comment from them. No doubt Benioff was the recipient of a good liberal arts education (the best money can buy), although what he actually studied or gained from it is debatable.

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15 minutes ago, teej6 said:

Yes, I noticed that too. Just another smug comment from them. No doubt Benioff was the recipient of a good liberal arts education (the best money can buy), although what he actually studied or gained from it is debatable.

He graduated Summa cum Laude in Bullshit.

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5 hours ago, divica said:

He can rationalize and accept a lot of things but he shouldn t lose his integrity. 

Any reporter that wanted to embarrass him only has to use his comments about lost and then compare it to GOT... Hells, I have no idea why no one in the media made a big deal about this 

 

I think most fans don't want to embarrass him.

I'm sure if he was a close friend of mine, he'd agree that Season 8 was a shitshow, but he's not going to say it in Belfast.

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5 hours ago, divica said:

He can rationalize and accept a lot of things but he shouldn t lose his integrity. 

Any reporter that wanted to embarrass him only has to use his comments about lost and then compare it to GOT... Hells, I have no idea why no one in the media made a big deal about this 

 

Damon Lindelof took a shot at GRRM over it, he's probably been waiting for his chance for years.

Of course it doesn't really count as revenge for Lindelof because GRRM didn't write the end to GoT, whereas Lindelof did write the end to LOST, but it would be interesting to see how GRRM would respond if a reporter did bring that up to him.

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6 hours ago, Darryk said:

Damon Lindelof took a shot at GRRM over it, he's probably been waiting for his chance for years.

Of course it doesn't really count as revenge for Lindelof because GRRM didn't write the end to GoT, whereas Lindelof did write the end to LOST, but it would be interesting to see how GRRM would respond if a reporter did bring that up to him.

Doesn't really matter if GRRM wrote the ending of GoT or not. Lindelof at least finished his story (and the last Season of Lost was 100 times better than the crap fest of S8 GoT). And so did GoT (bad though it was). GRRM hasn't finished his story and he never will, so maybe he should stfu and actually write his freaking books. But he can't because he wrote himself into a corner with his self indulgence (pages upon pages describing food, introduce a character in someone's POV and then 10 pages of that new character's history) instead all that wasted space could have been used to tighten the story. And he focused on anything but his main series. Someone incapable of finishing his own story maybe should be quiet in regards to other peoples works. Makes one look like an idiot.

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11 hours ago, Mystical said:

Doesn't really matter if GRRM wrote the ending of GoT or not. Lindelof at least finished his story (and the last Season of Lost was 100 times better than the crap fest of S8 GoT). And so did GoT (bad though it was). GRRM hasn't finished his story and he never will, so maybe he should stfu and actually write his freaking books. But he can't because he wrote himself into a corner with his self indulgence (pages upon pages describing food, introduce a character in someone's POV and then 10 pages of that new character's history) instead all that wasted space could have been used to tighten the story. And he focused on anything but his main series. Someone incapable of finishing his own story maybe should be quiet in regards to other peoples works. Makes one look like an idiot.

It's a fair point but the fact that the ending of LOST and GoT were such disasters kind of indicates that maybe GRRM is onto something with taking his time to complete the story. He should have kept it tighter though.

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Posted (edited)

Link to Martin’s recent interview with the Guardian: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2019/aug/18/george-rr-martin-interview-game-of-thrones-at-own-pace-now

Hmm... some of his statements are very interesting to say the least. There’s a sense of nostalgia and melancholy for the good old days in him.

ETA: He singled out St. Tyrion being different from his Tyrion.  

Edited by teej6

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