Jump to content
The Fattest Leech

Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, SeanF said:

I've only just watched Linda Garcia's last review:-

"I feel like Charlton Heston at the end of Planet of the Apes.  "They did it, they actually did it.  The fools."

Has Linda changed her name? I thought Linda went by the name Antonsson.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Has Linda changed her name? I thought Linda went by the name Antonsson.

Sorry, that's correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Sorry, that's correct.

No problem. Thanks.

When you watched the last review Linda compared  her thoughts to "I feel like Charlton Heston at the end of Planet of the Apes.  "They did it, they actually did it.  The fools."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 8/29/2019 at 11:49 AM, SeanF said:

I've only just watched Linda Garcia's last review:-

"I feel like Charlton Heston at the end of Planet of the Apes.  "They did it, they actually did it.  The fools."

Just watched it, too. Interesting. "Sansa" crowning herself did not show up in the subtitling transcript. And in the end, she is the one who has a lot of people kneeling to her. Littlefinger Jr. all alone in a tiara, lording over the extras.

Also this:

 

Edited by Le Cygne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Interesting. "Sansa" crowning herself did not show up in the subtitling transcript. And in the end, she is the one who has a lot of people kneeling to her.

Did she crown herself? I thought I saw someone crowning her. Or if by crowning you mean 'appointed herself queen', I don't think that's possible. The North votes for their Kings (or Queens) now after all. That's how Jon became one and that's why no one accepted Dany. Or did D&D change the rules AGAIN at the end?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Mystical said:

Did she crown herself? I thought I saw someone crowning her. Or if by crowning you mean 'appointed herself queen', I don't think that's possible. The North votes for their Kings (or Queens) now after all. That's how Jon became one and that's why no one accepted Dany. Or did D&D change the rules AGAIN at the end?

Your guess is as good as mine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Just watched it, too. Interesting. "Sansa" crowning herself did not show up in the subtitling transcript. And in the end, she is the one who has a lot of people kneeling to her. Littlefinger Jr. all alone in a tiara, lording over the extras.

Also this:

 

Sansa became Cersei 2.0 at the end.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/29/2019 at 6:37 PM, Le Cygne said:

The "no one was happy with the ending because no one wanted it to end" line is a talking point that no doubt sprang from HBO Damage Control Central... and will never not be funny.

 

There is some truth in it though. The show was full or flaws and illogical behaviors since season 5, but the mainstream audience only started to notice them in season 8, when the show was nearing the end and it was clear that some shocking plot twist isn't going to fix everything, time's up for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, miyuki said:

There is some truth in it though. The show was full or flaws and illogical behaviors since season 5, but the mainstream audience only started to notice them in season 8, when the show was nearing the end and it was clear that some shocking plot twist isn't going to fix everything, time's up for that.

Yeah, that does seem to be the case. I guess endlessly overlooking bad writing in hopes that one day it will all make sense doesn't pay.

It wasn't that it ended that was the problem, it was that it ended badly. But it was always going to end badly, because it was them writing it.

Ideally someone else would have taken over, and written a good ending.

Edited by Le Cygne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 8/30/2019 at 4:59 PM, SeanF said:

Sansa became Cersei 2.0 at the end.  

True. They couldn't decide who she should be after they made her Sandra Bolton, Cersei or Littlefinger, so they went with both.

Although Cersei had it better. They said she was "just a girl who needs the comfort of a man" and that is something they never cared to give to Sandra.

Here's the script:

Many of the skulls have been crushed by falling rock; even Balerion the Dread's skull has been caved in. All of the skulls have been blackened and scorched by the extreme heat of the fires that raged for hours. And then he sees it, in the pile of rubble and ash made by Drogon’s blast: A hint of a golden hand. Tyrion gets down on his knees and clears the rubble and ash away. It’s hard, filthy work. Tyrion starts to cry midway through but doesn’t stop until he’s cleared away the remains of Jaime and Cersei. They are still in each other's arms: his golden hand resting beside her head; her lion pendant still encircling her neck. Tyrion sits beside the remains of his brother and sister and cries for them both.

Reading any of their stuff, you want to take a red pen to it to cross out all the bad writing, and then you realize there would be nothing left if you did.

Skulls... skulls... rubble and ash... rubble and ash... golden hand... golden hand... he cries... he cries... In that brief passage, they repeated all of that. They never focus, they combine unrelated things, like the badly constructed sentence in bold.

Edited by Le Cygne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Jason Momoa ranting wonderfully:

Another:

Another:

 

Edited by Le Cygne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

More of the bad script:

Drogon lands out of sight beyond the top of the stairs. Jon climbs the stairway. When he nears the top he sees Dany, already dismounted, walking towards him. For a moment, Drogon’s unfolding wings spread behind her back, an unsettling image. Her Satanic Majesty’s Request.

This is so bad. Dragons are the symbol of Satan, yet they have Drogon refuse to kill Jon. And Jon is half dragon himself. They drop the symbolism when it's convenient, after their fun.

Drogon sees him. He lifts his head, blocking the way. The massive dragon stares at the diminutive man, studying him with eyes that seem just as intelligent as Jon's own. For a long, tense beat, Drogon considers this suitor for his mother's attentions. His head comes in close. He takes a big sniff. Jon is a friend, not a threat. Drogon’s head snakes away, back to his claws to resume his cleaning. Jon walks past the dragon and into the keep.

And here she goes from Satan to Jesus. And they say he loves her, but she made him do it. How many times have women heard that. And he hopes for another moment with her! :lol:

He looks into the eyes of the woman he loves... In a wider angle, we see Jon with his hand still on the hilt of the dagger he just lodged in Dany’s heart. Her strength leaves her and she collapses to the marble; he keeps her in his arms as she falls, kneeling down to the floor beside her. He looks down at what he’s done. Terrible. And necessary. He hopes for one last moment with her. But her eyes are already glazing over. Winter has come to the Throne Room. Dany lies dead in his arms, Pieta-style, as the snow drifts down.

Drogon comes off noble here. And they never do expand upon any of this. Jon is a Targ means absolutely nothing at all. A central plot point of the series, from day one.

The dragon rises up on his hind legs, towering over Jon. In a beautiful, terrifying tableaux, he roars to the sky, the embodiment of rage. He looks down at Jon. We see the fire build up in his throat. Jon sees it as well. He prepares to die. But the blast is not for him. Drogon wants to burn the world but he will not kill Jon... Drogon turns back to Dany’s lifeless body and delicately gathers her up with a claw. With heavy thrusts of his wings, Drogon takes to the air, and flies away through the missing roof. Jon watches him recede, with his mother’s corpse in his grasp.

Edited by Le Cygne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

More of the bad script:

Drogon lands out of sight beyond the top of the stairs. Jon climbs the stairway. When he nears the top he sees Dany, already dismounted, walking towards him. For a moment, Drogon’s unfolding wings spread behind her back, an unsettling image. Her Satanic Majesty’s Request.

This is so bad. Dragons are the symbol of Satan, yet they have Drogon refuse to kill Jon. And Jon is half dragon himself. They drop the symbolism when it's convenient, after their fun.

Drogon sees him. He lifts his head, blocking the way. The massive dragon stares at the diminutive man, studying him with eyes that seem just as intelligent as Jon's own. For a long, tense beat, Drogon considers this suitor for his mother's attentions. His head comes in close. He takes a big sniff. Jon is a friend, not a threat. Drogon’s head snakes away, back to his claws to resume his cleaning. Jon walks past the dragon and into the keep.

And here she goes from Satan to Jesus. And they say he loves her, but she made him do it. How many times have women heard that. And he hopes for another moment with her! :lol:

He looks into the eyes of the woman he loves... In a wider angle, we see Jon with his hand still on the hilt of the dagger he just lodged in Dany’s heart. Her strength leaves her and she collapses to the marble; he keeps her in his arms as she falls, kneeling down to the floor beside her. He looks down at what he’s done. Terrible. And necessary. He hopes for one last moment with her. But her eyes are already glazing over. Winter has come to the Throne Room. Dany lies dead in his arms, Pieta-style, as the snow drifts down.

Drogon comes off noble here. And they never do expand upon any of this. Jon is a Targ means absolutely nothing at all. A central plot point of the series, from day one.

The dragon rises up on his hind legs, towering over Jon. In a beautiful, terrifying tableaux, he roars to the sky, the embodiment of rage. He looks down at Jon. We see the fire build up in his throat. Jon sees it as well. He prepares to die. But the blast is not for him. Drogon wants to burn the world but he will not kill Jon... Drogon turns back to Dany’s lifeless body and delicately gathers her up with a claw. With heavy thrusts of his wings, Drogon takes to the air, and flies away through the missing roof. Jon watches him recede, with his mother’s corpse in his grasp.

Jon is not really the one I feel sorry for at that point.

In truth, I was unmoved.

BTW, did you read how D & D compared the Starbucks cup to a deliberate mistake in an otherwise brilliant Persian carpet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, SeanF said:

Jon is not really the one I feel sorry for at that point.

In truth, I was unmoved.

BTW, did you read how D & D compared the Starbucks cup to a deliberate mistake in an otherwise brilliant Persian carpet.

So ridiculous.

More bad script. Were they spacing out the lines to fill the pages or what. And he kills Dany to save himself.

ARYA
Jon.

No one else is close enough to hear their words.

ARYA
She knows who you are. Who you really are. You’ll always be a threat to her.

Arya looks to Dany, walking away with her Dothraki bodyguard.

ARYA
And I know a killer when I see one.

Hilarious. This is hilarious, too.

YARA
Cersei is gone because of her. And Jon Snow put a knife in her heart. Let the Unsullied give him what he deserves.

ARYA
Say another word about killing my brother and I’ll cut your throat.

Yara opens her mouth to respond but sees the look on Arya’s face. Yara is as tough as they come, but Arya-- Arya’s different.

Edited by Le Cygne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Mystical said:

How? Even just taking S8 by itself, how does this comparison makes sense? I have seen this sentiment around but it makes as little sense to me as S8. One cares about the logistics of keeping the people clothed/fed/housed, sits in the cold with her people and wants the doors kept open for as long as possible because of refugees. The other herded the people into the Keep to use them as meat shields. One went to free her brother with an army and install him as KitN again. The other send assassins after her brother(s). That was the plot of S8 so...how is Sansa=Cersei 2.0?

Revealing Jon's parentage to Tyrion, at the appropriate moment, was very Cerseiesque.  Be under no doubt that her aim was to get Daenerys killed at that point, at the hands of her advisors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mystical said:

How? Even just taking S8 by itself, how does this comparison makes sense? I have seen this sentiment around but it makes as little sense to me as S8. One cares about the logistics of keeping the people clothed/fed/housed, sits in the cold with her people and wants the doors kept open for as long as possible because of refugees. The other herded the people into the Keep to use them as meat shields. One went to free her brother with an army and install him as KitN again. The other send assassins after her brother(s). That was the plot of S8 so...how is Sansa=Cersei 2.0?

Show:Sansa's behavior in the crypts was basically the same as Cersei's in the Red Keep during Blackwater.  That being said no matter how awful her and the rest of the Starks' writing was in Season 8 I still loved the Queen in the North scene.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Tyrion's "evil men" speech to Jon.  I think this is where D & D break the fourth wall, and expound on their own political beliefs.  That a liberator is necessarily a tyrant, and that the best course in the face of injustice is to turn away and do nothing.  Which, naturally, suits the perpetrators of injustice very well.  It's a form of selective pacifism.  

It's also full of lies.  Daenerys did not "murder" anyone at Astapor, in the show, nor did she murder the Dothraki Khals.  The first action was similar to liberating a concentration camp.  The second was straightforward self-defence against people who were debating whether to imprison her in the Dosh Khaleen, execute her, or sell her as a slave.  The reference to the crucifixion of "hundreds" of Meereenese nobles (163) overlooks that it was in response to the crucifixion of 163 children.

Peter Dinklage delivers this piece of sophistry with gusto, and it sounds persuasive at first, but it really is a morally bankrupt piece of rhetoric.

Back in the glory days of the series, we'd have seen this as Tyrion working on Jon, in order to save his own hide.  If the book series ends with Tyrion persuading Jon to kill Daenerys, I expect that his motives will be far less virtuous than D & D tried to present.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/1/2019 at 2:43 AM, SeanF said:

Re: Tyrion's "evil men" speech to Jon.  I think this is where D & D break the fourth wall, and expound on their own political beliefs.  That a liberator is necessarily a tyrant, and that the best course in the face of injustice is to turn away and do nothing.  Which, naturally, suits the perpetrators of injustice very well.  It's a form of selective pacifism.  

It's also full of lies.  Daenerys did not "murder" anyone at Astapor, in the show, nor did she murder the Dothraki Khals.  The first action was similar to liberating a concentration camp.  The second was straightforward self-defence against people who were debating whether to imprison her in the Dosh Khaleen, execute her, or sell her as a slave.  The reference to the crucifixion of "hundreds" of Meereenese nobles (163) overlooks that it was in response to the crucifixion of 163 children.

Peter Dinklage delivers this piece of sophistry with gusto, and it sounds persuasive at first, but it really is a morally bankrupt piece of rhetoric.

Back in the glory days of the series, we'd have seen this as Tyrion working on Jon, in order to save his own hide.  If the book series ends with Tyrion persuading Jon to kill Daenerys, I expect that his motives will be far less virtuous than D & D tried to present.

Yeah, that made no sense, and Tyrion was their glorified self-insert.

This is all very 13 year old boy stuff, but it really stood out, how they did this.

They make every woman honor Tyrion (including a teen hostage, a kidnapped prostitute, and a sex slave, who all rejected him in the books), exalt his "magic" penis while slamming Jon's as tiny, make Jon a kinslayer then banish him, make Sandor and Jaime throw their lives away, kill off Jorah, forget about Daario...

Everyone out of Tyrion's way, the rest are just there to prop him up while he drinks and knows things. They have him honor themselves, the storytellers. And they stay true to form and end with him and Bronn yukking it up about brothels, because that's just what women need after war, to be happy hookers for them.

Here's more bad script, their message: men made the mistake of loving women (and Dany made the mistake of rejecting Tyrion, just like Sansa and Shae):

TYRION
I know you love her. I love her, too. Not as successfully as you. But I believed in her with all my heart. Love is more powerful than reason. We all know that. Look at my brother.

Edited by Le Cygne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thinking some more about Jason Momoa's reaction in the video above, he knew the character better than they did. They also played down Drogo's role in Dany's life.

In the books, Dany names her dragon after Drogo, and wears his lion pelt. She still loves him. In a positive way, they have a very meaningful story connection the author constantly underscores.

The show did Dany a disservice. They did the same to Sansa. And to Arya. And to Brienne. Everyone, really. The people and things that shape them positively are diminished if mentioned at all.

Kit also knew his character better than they did. Asked of the three, "who would you betray, who would you marry, who would you kill?" he answered: I betray Cersei. I marry Daenerys. I kill Sansa.

Instead, Cersei was "just a girl who needs the comfort of a man" according to them. And Dany was Satan.

Edited by Le Cygne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Thinking some more about Jason Momoa's reaction in the video above, he knew the character better than they did. They also played down Drogo's role in Dany's life.

In the books, Dany names her dragon after Drogo, and wears his lion pelt. She still loves him. In a positive way, they have a very meaningful story connection the author constantly underscores.

The show did Dany a disservice. They did the same to Sansa. And to Arya. And to Brienne. Everyone, really. The people and things that shape them positively are diminished if mentioned at all.

Kit also knew his character better than they did. Asked of the three, "who would you betray, who would you marry, who would you kill?" he answered: I betray Cersei. I marry Daenerys. I kill Sansa.

Instead, Cersei was "just a girl who needs the comfort of a man" according to them. And Dany was Satan.

In the end, no character emerged better in the Show than in the books.

Unfortunately, I think Jon killing Dany at Tyrion's instigation, is a thing.  I can't believe they'd come up with that on their own.  I think it remains very much an open question whether it's because Dany's a tyrant, or simply the victim of Tyrion's malice. I can see Dany's story taking a darker turn in TWOW.  But darker turn does not been ranting genocidal maniac.

I think the burning of Kings Landing is a thing.  The wildfire caches are Chekhov's gun.  I expect they ignite as Dany fights her way into the city.  I'm sure that she does not deliberately incinerate civilians because Jon turned her down.

I think the crucial battle against the Others will be on the Trident (in line with Dany's dream at Astapor) not Winterfell.  This will be after the burning of Kings Landing.

Sansa may never end up in the North at all.  The Vale plot was largely removed from the Show.  I'm not convinced Northern independence is a thing.  The North is already self-governing.

It's said that Bran becoming King is a thing.  I can't see how it makes sense, given where he is now, and he's 10.

I doubt if Arya sails into the Sunset.  That's Elissa Farman's story.

Bronn is not Master of Coin.

Jaime's redemption arc will be meaningful, and Cersei will die well before the end.

If Tyrion is "the villain" (as Martin has stated) than it's hard to imagine that Dany will also be one.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×