Jump to content
The Fattest Leech

Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

Recommended Posts

44 minutes ago, Darryk said:

It was hilariously out of character for him to stab her, but also hilariously out of character for him to tell Tyrion "she's the queen, it's her decision" after she burnt down King's Landing. Probably the in-character thing for him to do was storm out of King's Landing in disgust, or try remove her from power non-violently.

The finale was so hopelessly bungled, they not only had several characters act-out of-character, but managed to make a character  act out-of-character on both sides of the extreme (Jon dismissing Dany's war crimes, then suddenly deciding he needs to stab her for them).

Maybe D+D think character development is for eight-grade book reports.

My comment on this forum, after the final episode was "cynical and depressing."

The depressing bit is Daenerys turning into Old Yeller and having to be put down by her lover.  Who then goes to live in squalor for the rest of his life.  And, Jaime's redemption arc going nowhere.  And, the country being governed by a robot and a council who view the Smallfolk as livestock.

The cynical bit is thinking that giving fanservice endings to some characters we were not very invested in would make up for it.

Now I'm less charitable.  I'd just describe it as a complete mess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Darryk said:

Maybe D+D think character development is for eight-grade book reports.

Perfect! :lol:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Darryk said:

It was hilariously out of character for him to stab her, but also hilariously out of character for him to tell Tyrion "she's the queen, it's her decision" after she burnt down King's Landing. Probably the in-character thing for him to do was storm out of King's Landing in disgust, or try remove her from power non-violently.

The finale was so hopelessly bungled, they not only had several characters act-out of-character, but managed to make a character  act out-of-character on both sides of the extreme (Jon dismissing Dany's war crimes, then suddenly deciding he needs to stab her for them).

Maybe D+D think character development is for eight-grade book reports.

Nothing about Jon's characterization made sense to me. He had gotten together with Dany just a millisecond ago, so I was surprised he was willing to overlook all her faults. And then he stabs her exhibiting almost no regret, which was weird considering he thought she was the best person to rule.

It reminded me of that episode of Dexter's laboratory where Dexter keeps repeating the same phrase. Here Jon's 'omelette du fromage' was 'she's my queen', and things just kept happening despite none of it making sense. In Dexter's case he achieved world peace and Jon let the world burn down. And we were all like Dee Dee screaming 'that's all you can say'! How is this happening?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/27/2019 at 2:09 PM, Le Cygne said:

And they shut the women up, too. She's a puppet in their hands, to put herself down or praise them via their surrogates when they put her down.

If a woman is a good sport and goes along with the writers' BS, that's no guarantee she lives, but it helps. Thanking rapists is a plus.

I saw the scene where Dany is killed again (by accident), and it will never not be hilariously obvious they are afraid to let women speak as exemplified in this moment.

Who doesn't let a dying person say something? "Rosebud" anyone? "I would have followed you, my brother... my captain... my king." Nope, no last words for a main character of the series.

Two blowhards decide her fate, after talking about how one got to screw her, and one did not (Tyrion: "I love her, not as successfully as you" is if not their worst line right up there).

So the last words she hears on earth is some ineffectual bozo patronizing her, you're my queen, right before he murders her and becomes a kinslayer, no one is more cursed, but whatever.

He puts her down like a dog, but he is the dog. It's a Judas move. And he's dumber than a dog, and has been ever since they gave Jon a small cock out of spite.

And the last words of the series are their boys, Tyrion and Bronn, blathering about brothels. They shut up the prostitutes, too. They made the sex slave beg Tyrion, that says it all.

Another example of the woman problem is how frequently female characters were depicted taking pleasure from cruelty.  Cersei wants to have sex after torturing people;  Dany wants sex after burning Varys;  Arya seems to be having an orgasm, as she opens Walder Frey's throat, and relishes torturing Meryn Trant;  Sansa is grinning as she watches Ramsay being eaten alive;. Ellaria and her daughters get off on torture:. Even Brienne enjoys giving a prolonged death to a Northern soldier.

Edited by SeanF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/29/2019 at 5:06 PM, kissdbyfire said:

Perfect! :lol:

 

Themes, character development, credible storylines, consequences to actions were all things for eight grade book reports

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Themes, character development, credible storylines, consequences to actions were all things for eight grade book reports

So true. And so sad. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, SeanF said:

Another example of the woman problem is how frequently female characters were depicted taking pleasure from cruelty.  Cersei wants to have sex after torturing people;  Dany wants sex after burning Varys;  Arya seems to be having an orgasm, as she opens Walder Frey's throat, and relishes torturing Meryn Trant;  Sansa is grinning as she watches Ramsay being eaten alive;. Ellaria and her daughters get off on torture:. Even Brienne enjoys giving a prolonged death to a Northern soldier.

Good point! None of them except Cersei are villains, too. These were protagonists that they just completely gutted as characters, women, and human beings. Ellaria wanted the opposite of revenge in the books.

They robbed the women of important book connections with men, too. On the show, men were just there to prop up or thank them for abusing them, or just there to use them or honor them after they were used.

They destroyed the stories of the women and by extension the men they should have shared meaningful moments with. They love to destroy things. They deliberately do the complete opposite of the books.

Edited by Le Cygne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Good point! All of them except Cersei are villains, too. These were protagonists that they just completely gutted as characters, women, and human beings. Ellaria wanted the opposite of revenge in the books.

They robbed the women of important book connections with men, too. On the show, men were just there to prop up or thank them for abusing them, or just there to use them or honor them after they were used.

They destroyed the stories of the women and by extension the men they should have shared meaningful moments with. They love to destroy things. They deliberately do the complete opposite of the books.

Even Cersei (in the books) is horrified to witness the torture of the Blue Bard (not that that excuses her). But she certainly doesn't get aroused by torture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, SeanF said:

Even Cersei (in the books) is horrified to witness the torture of the Blue Bard (not that that excuses her). But she certainly doesn't get aroused by torture.

Yeah, they destroyed so many good stories because of their hangups. And in the end, they say she's "just a girl"... girls are stupid and like torture is their message.

Edited by Le Cygne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SeanF said:

I understand now that Jon killing Daenerys was a D & D idea, which is a relief.

I just cannot see Jon choosing to be a kinslayer, and it would so damned cynical, it would taint the rest of the book story, just as it did the show.

He always wanted to know his parents cared, so then he finds out they did, then promptly kills his father's sister, who is also alone in the world.

It just would not be a good story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, SeanF said:

I understand now that Jon killing Daenerys was a D & D idea, which is a relief.

We can't be sure, unfortunately. They may just be reluctant to reveal GRRM told them it because of the backlash they got for revealing that Stannis burning Shireen was a GRRM idea.

Still, even if GRRM told them Jon kills Dany, they clearly came up with his motivations (or lack of them) for doing so themselves

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Darryk said:

We can't be sure, unfortunately. They may just be reluctant to reveal GRRM told them it because of the backlash they got for revealing that Stannis burning Shireen was a GRRM idea.

Still, even if GRRM told them Jon kills Dany, they clearly came up with his motivations (or lack of them) for doing so themselves

If Jon did kill her, as his lover or wife, I can't believe that that he would be motivated by any concern for Sansa.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Darryk said:

revealing that Stannis burning Shireen was a GRRM idea.

Not saying Stannis won’t do it, but if you can bring yourself to watch/rewatch that Outside the Episode, what David or Dan say is, “when Martin told us this”.  Now, by “this” they could mean Shireen burning or Shireeen burning on Stannis’s orders. So, it’s even worse, actually. Because they did sort of spoil it or at least confirmed that she burns, but were careful enough not to name who gives the order. And all of this mess was David and Dan throwing Martin under the bus because of the backlash they got for Sansa Poole, one of the most stupid storylines ever.

Edited by kissdbyfire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Not saying Stannis won’t do it, but if you can bring yourself to watch/rewatch that Outside the Episode, what David or Dan say is, “when Martin told us this”.  Now, by “this” they could mean Shireen burning or Shireeen burning on Stannis’s orders. So, it’s even worse, actually. Because they did sort of spoil it or at least confirmed that she burns, but were careful enough not to name who gives the order. And all of this mess was David and Dan throwing Martin under the bus because of the backlash they got for Sansa Poole, one of the most stupid storylines ever.

I can't believe book Stannis would ever do that.  D & D disliked Stannis and chose to vilify him.

I could imagine Melisandre doing it, as part of a ritual to revive Jon Snow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Not saying Stannis won’t do it, but if you can bring yourself to watch/rewatch that Outside the Episode, what David or Dan say is, “when Martin told us this”.  Now, by “this” they could mean Shireen burning or Shireeen burning on Stannis’s orders. So, it’s even worse, actually. Because they did sort of spoil it or at least confirmed that she burns, but were careful enough not to name who gives the order. And all of this mess was David and Dan throwing Martin under the bus because of the backlash they got for Sansa Poole, one of the most stupid storylines ever.

I'm also sceptical as to whether Stannis will actually give the order to burn her in the books.

This is the thing with a lot of the stuff GRRM told them. We don't know how he phrased it to them or whether he gave in-depth detail. Like, for example, did he tell them "Dany will burn down KIng's Landing because Jon rejects her", or did he just say "Dany becomes more tyrannical". Two very different things, as with "Shireen gets burned because Stannis ordered it" versus "Shireen gets burned".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Darryk said:

I'm also sceptical as to whether Stannis will actually give the order to burn her in the books.

This is the thing with a lot of the stuff GRRM told them. We don't know how he phrased it to them or whether he gave in-depth detail. Like, for example, did he tell them "Dany will burn down KIng's Landing because Jon rejects her", or did he just say "Dany becomes more tyrannical". Two very different things, as with "Shireen gets burned because Stannis ordered it" versus "Shireen gets burned".

Exactly. And irt Shireen burning, they were very sketchy w/ how they phrased it. “When Martin told us this” is a very deliberate way of saying, “it’s not our fault, we didn’t come up w/ the idea of burning a sweet little girl, it came directly from Martin”. And this was a few eps after Sansa Poole marrying Ramsay and poor Theon having to witness the wedding night and all that stupid as fuck storyline THEY created. So, w/ Shireen, they wanted to wash their hands and make it very clear that it was all Martin’s idea; at the same time, they chose to not say, “when Martin told us that Stannis would burn Shireen (for the stupidest of reasons, no less)”. I find that telling. IMO it was a very crappy move b/c they “spoiled” a book plot, and they cowardly hid behind Martin to avoid more backlash b/c of their own stupid “ideas”. 

Another thing that is worthy of mention is, they claim they were utterly shocked when Martin told them “this”, which is ludicrous and further proof that they never really understood anything in the story, if they even read it at all. I mean, are there many, if any, readers who think Shireen will not burn, regardless of who gives the order?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Darryk said:

I'm also sceptical as to whether Stannis will actually give the order to burn her in the books.

So am I. Stannis spent loads of money and energy to find a cure…

I'd bet the order comes from Melisandre or maybe Val who is terrified at the thought of living in the same place as an infected person, cured or not…

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×