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The Fattest Leech

Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

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18 minutes ago, bluntt said:

How do you know this?

To be fair, I'm only reading this second hand (I've no intention of spending money on the DVD).  It seems they claim credit for coming up with the idea in Season 3.

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Just now, kissdbyfire said:

Not speaking for @SeanF,  but what happened n GoT is just too stupid for Martin. 

I agree -  the way it was presented was ridiculous, however its hard for me to imagine that they invented this by themselves.

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Just now, SeanF said:

To be fair, I'm only reading this second hand (I've no intention of spending money on the DVD).  It seems they claim credit for coming up with the idea in Season 3.

I didn’t know that. But I was right, just plain too stupid for Martin! :lol:

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1 minute ago, SeanF said:

To be fair, I'm only reading this second hand (I've no intention of spending money on the DVD).  It seems they claim credit for coming up with the idea in Season 3.

I plan on pirating the documentary for the last episode. I just need to figure out what were those 2 really thinking.

 

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Also if we take Bran is king at the end as canon(this is confirmed at least), how do you remove Daenerys from the picture? Who else is a candidate to kill her or we assume there is a happy end for her?

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7 minutes ago, bluntt said:

I agree -  the way it was presented was ridiculous, however its hard for me to imagine that they invented this by themselves.

Why? It’s trope-ish, sexist, stupid, unimaginative... in other words, right up their alley! :D

 

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2 minutes ago, bluntt said:

Also if we take Bran is king at the end as canon(this is confirmed at least), how do you remove Daenerys from the picture? Who else is a candidate to kill her or we assume there is a happy end for her?

I don’t take what anyone involved in/with the show as confirmation of anything tbh. And I’m not saying people would deliberately lie, just that whoever said whatever may have received faulty/incomplete info. :dunno:

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10 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Why? It’s trope-ish, sexist, stupid, unimaginative... in other words, right up their alley! :D

 

Well i dont think they can come up with something like this as end game on their own... they lack imagination for this and in fact to me it sounds like a thing GRRM would do just in more acceptable fashion.

And this brings me to the real problem(i dont care about the show anymore) - there are just 2 books to unfold the story... i dont see this happening even if he goes 500k words in each.

Edited by bluntt

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14 minutes ago, bluntt said:

Also if we take Bran is king at the end as canon(this is confirmed at least), how do you remove Daenerys from the picture? Who else is a candidate to kill her or we assume there is a happy end for her?

She could die fighting the Others, return to Essos, find the house with the red door, fall victim to Tyrion's jealousy (Tyrion in the show was changed into a saintly pacifist who bore no relation to his book counterpart) be murdered by nobles who object to intended reforms etc.

I suppose there are ways she might die at Jon's hands, eg the Nissa Nissa sacrifice, or perhaps she's fully embraced the role of R'hllor's champion on earth, and intends something like sacrificing their child to the Red God. 

Edited by SeanF

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1 minute ago, SeanF said:

She could die fighting the Others, return to Essos, find the house with the red door, fall victim to Tyrion's jealousy (Tyrion in the show was changed into a saintly pacifist who bore no relation to his book counterpart) be murdered by nobles who object to intended reforms etc. 

Oh yes Tyrion is a different beast in the books i agree.

Two things come to me as i type:
1. GRRM talking how "its all about Jon and Dany" during some of the early seasons shootings.
2. The main prophecy in the books that is Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa.

I mean its hard to dodge this.

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1 minute ago, bluntt said:

Oh yes Tyrion is a different beast in the books i agree.

Two things come to me as i type:
1. GRRM talking how "its all about Jon and Dany" during some of the early seasons shootings.
2. The main prophecy in the books that is Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa.

I mean its hard to dodge this.

I don't think many of us like the Azhor Ahai/Nissa Nissa prophecy, but for her to die as a  sacrifice in the war against the Others is definitely preferable to her dying like Old Yeller in the show.

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1 minute ago, SeanF said:

I don't think many of us like the Azhor Ahai/Nissa Nissa prophecy, but for her to die as a  sacrifice in the war against the Others is definitely preferable to her dying like Old Yeller in the show. 

So you mean Jon and Dany read in a book together that he must stab her with Longclaw to defeat the Others and they just do that?

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Just now, bluntt said:

So you mean Jon and Dany read in a book together that he must stab her with Longclaw to defeat the Others and they just do that?

I have no idea how it would pan out (if that's what happens).  The other candidate for Nissa Nissa, IMHO, is Melisandre.

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Just now, SeanF said:

I have no idea how it would pan out (if that's what happens).  The other candidate for Nissa Nissa, IMHO, is Melisandre.

Mel is an mid-tier character, how can she be Nissa Nissa? I feel the highest probability is that in fact Jon will kill Daenerys, however the circumstances will be different and more nuanced. Dany would not be just an old yeller when she goes. And in the end i dont like this, and i dont see it unfolding in a good manner over 2 books. Also if i have to bet right now highest probability goes to George never finishing even Winds. So we will have the bitter taste of what we saw on screen.

 

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The ending will be bittersweet.

Meaning that if Jon does kill Daenerys, he'll be damning himself as a kingslayer and a kinslayer (twice over if Dany is pregnant with his child). He'll be in massive trouble and Arya, Sansa and Bran won't be able to save him from it. I mean, come on, who in Westeros murders their own wife by stabbing her in a chest while embracing her as a loving husband would? Like what? That's like Judas betraying Jesus with a kiss. Not even the Mad King Aerys at his worst would stoop so low as to kill or even actively attempt to kill Queen Rhaella. Maegor the Cruel had to sentence one of his many wives to death after a trial and a confession...and even he didn't personally execute her.

If Jon does it, the people will revile him, no matter how much they hated Daenerys. Jon will want to kill himself. Exile would not only be dangerous and counter-intuitive but it would be merciless. Especially if Jon was manipulated/deceived into doing so...which I think he would.

It's a beautiful reference to quintessential Shakespearean tragedy. I can see the whole Daenerys/Jon romance playing out like Othello.

But because GRRM says that the ending will be bittersweet, not tragic or just straight up bitter, there is going to be some semblance of peace, sweetness and goodwill that comes from it...eventually. Like take the lemon motif in the arcs of Sansa, Dany and the Dornish. Lemons are almost impossible to eat and, if eaten, are very hard to digest. But lemons make for some brilliant, tasty delicacies.

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3 hours ago, SeanF said:

To be fair, I'm only reading this second hand (I've no intention of spending money on the DVD).  It seems they claim credit for coming up with the idea in Season 3.

In typical D+D fashion, when they say they came up with the scene, it's difficult to tell whether they mean that what happens in the scene was their idea, or just the way it plays out visually.

The quote from Winter is Coming:

Relatedly, Weiss talks about the origins of Daenerys’ death scene. “I think the final scene between Jon and Daenerys is something we came up with sometime in the midst of the third season of the show. The broad-strokes of it, anyway. But there was a tremendous amount of pressure to get it right ’cause we know that this is not a scene that’s giving people what they want.” It’s unclear whether that scene comes directly from Martin or if Benioff and Weiss came up with it.

I hope you're right and they're saying the whole dumb thing was their idea, but either way, even if GRRM did tell them that Jon kills Dany, I'm sure it will play out very differently in the books.

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Another thing from that Winter is Coming article is that David Benioff seems to imply in his DVD commentary that Drogon deliberately burnt the throne, yet in the script it says the throne is not the focus of his wrath, just a "dumb bystander". So which is it?

These guys can't even keep track of their own motivations, let alone that of the characters they're writing.

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1 minute ago, Darryk said:

But there was a tremendous amount of pressure to get it right ’cause we know that this is not a scene that’s giving people what they want.” I

And yet they failed as miserably as they possibly could. :lol:

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Just now, Darryk said:

Another thing from that Winter is Coming article is that David Benioff seems to imply in his DVD commentary that Drogon deliberately burnt the throne, yet in the script it says the throne is not the focus of his wrath, just a "dumb bystander". So which is it?

These guys can't even keep track of their own motivations, let alone that of the characters they're writing.

Motivations are for 8th grade book reports? Keeping track of stuff as well. Remember the same dumb Outside the Episode after Shireen’s immolation where David or Dan say that when we first meet Stannis he was burning people on Dragonstone? And even show wise, the only burnt the wooden statues, so, yeah, can’t keep track of their own bs. Priceless. 

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I cannot see GRRM doing a matchy matchy with Azor Ahai/Nissa Nissa. Something people come up with to pass the long winter nights is just that. Santa Claus is not going to come down the chimney.

It would be regressive and just plain insulting to women who are just there in the story to be stabbed. Let's see, who does stuff like that? Benioff and Weiss. They fell into every trap.

They went for the easy copy and paste of myths and memes, and the joke is on them.

Edited by Le Cygne

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