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The Fattest Leech

Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

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I dont really think the acting has suffered because of D&D's tricks. The acting on this show excels in spite of it. 

GRRM also talks incessantly about surprising readers too, so I don't think he's necessarily that different from D&D who also want to do the same, the difference is that they don't know how to do it well and twists are more important than anything else.

I am curious what "cryptic suggestions" will play out in S6 on rewatch. 

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1 hour ago, Ser Gareth said:

That's pretty standard if you are a good leader actually.  You don't hire experts (Directors) and then get in their way.  Best to stay out of the way and just check progress once or twice a month to make sure everything is on track and in budget.  Plus they'd have had a lot more to focus on that just one episode.

It's not.

52 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

That's really interesting!  You got any links to where the actors are complaining?

There have been plenty of quotes from actors on just this subject all through the years. You think this isn't known?

You seem to have mis-read the main post which explains the purpose of this thread. I will add a reminder here just for ease:

Welcome to Rant and Rave without Repercussions, the scripts version. Waiting Wading through the seasons...

In the words of King o'the Board,

The topic of the thread is discussing things you dislike about the show, and this thread specifically focuses on the scripts and directors notes in relation to how it effected the show plot past, present, and future (Season 8) .

Discussion of why people disliked something is permitted, but remember the topic at hand: this is not a debate thread, it's a discussion thread specifically about episode details or events that posters disliked. Posts that ignore this will be considered off-topic. It is not a place to throw insults at one another or to act as if the normal rules of the forum do not apply. Likewise, per forum rules about flame wars, PLEASE IGNORE anyone trying to bring this thread down to a close.

Remember, open spoilers for all are being discussed here.

So far it is coming across that you are here to antagonize more than add to or share in this particular discussion, creating a "flame war" as it is stated in forum decorum. Please don't.

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25 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I dont really think the acting has suffered because of D&D's tricks. The acting on this show excels in spite of it. 

GRRM also talks incessantly about surprising readers too, so I don't think he's necessarily that different from D&D who also want to do the same, the difference is that they don't know how to do it well and twists are more important than anything else.

I am curious what "cryptic suggestions" will play out in S6 on rewatch. 

I wasn't clear when I brought up the character issues. Meant to specify the overall characterization on the show where they jackknife all over the place because the plot demands it or some nonsense. 

 

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33 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I dont really think the acting has suffered because of D&D's tricks. The acting on this show excels in spite of it. 

I differ here. There is a great video out there that has compiled many quotes by Cogman, D&D, and the actors that explains how the showrunners go more for facial "emoting" than acting and conveyance. When I find it I will post it because I had no idea so much of this play-down acting was actually the goal.

33 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

 

GRRM also talks incessantly about surprising readers too, so I don't think he's necessarily that different from D&D who also want to do the same, the difference is that they don't know how to do it well and twists are more important than anything else.

I am curious what "cryptic suggestions" will play out in S6 on rewatch. 

Yeah, but GRRM wanting to surprise readers is not the same as flip-flopping on an arc just to make up a twist. His "twists" are always planned from the beginning. Even out of his ASOIAF writing, he likes to "make things his own" as he says, so he is never ripping off what he is inspired by. The show is very different because they write scene to scene.

“I’ve been planting all these clues that the butler did it, then you’re halfway through a series and suddenly thousands of people have figured out that the butler did it, and then you say the chambermaid did it? No, you can’t do that,” --GRRM

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12 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

On filming S6:

"This was a unique point in the show's history. Benioff and Weiss were still a couple of seasons away from being finished, but were now beginning to seriously think about the end. They'd decided the fates of every major character. Sometimes they gave actors cryptic suggestions when filming certain scenes, with those final episodes in mind. The actor didn't know why they were doing something a certain way, only that it was somehow important. After Thrones is finished, fans will look back and see subtle hints that were dropped" (Hibberd's EW cover story)

 

1

Is this from the new EW issue?

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39 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

It's not.

There have been plenty of quotes from actors on just this subject all through the years. You think this isn't known?

You seem to have mis-read the main post which explains the purpose of this thread. I will add a reminder here just for ease:

Welcome to Rant and Rave without Repercussions, the scripts version. Waiting Wading through the seasons...

In the words of King o'the Board,

The topic of the thread is discussing things you dislike about the show, and this thread specifically focuses on the scripts and directors notes in relation to how it effected the show plot past, present, and future (Season 8) .

Discussion of why people disliked something is permitted, but remember the topic at hand: this is not a debate thread, it's a discussion thread specifically about episode details or events that posters disliked. Posts that ignore this will be considered off-topic. It is not a place to throw insults at one another or to act as if the normal rules of the forum do not apply. Likewise, per forum rules about flame wars, PLEASE IGNORE anyone trying to bring this thread down to a close.

Remember, open spoilers for all are being discussed here.

So far it is coming across that you are here to antagonize more than add to or share in this particular discussion, creating a "flame war" as it is stated in forum decorum. Please don't.

I need the evidence so I can rant and rave.  I can't find any kind of links where the actors have been directly critical of D&D's approach.  Would be great to have for future arguments when I tell people how shit they've been!

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56 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Yeah, but GRRM wanting to surprise readers is not the same as flip-flopping on an arc just to make up a twist. His "twists" are always planned from the beginning. Even out of his ASOIAF writing, he likes to "make things his own" as he says, so he is never ripping off what he is inspired by. The show is very different because they write scene to scene.

“I’ve been planting all these clues that the butler did it, then you’re halfway through a series and suddenly thousands of people have figured out that the butler did it, and then you say the chambermaid did it? No, you can’t do that,” --GRRM

Can you give an example of D&D changing it to the chambermaid? 

I just mean that D&D know the endgame, and so does George, so they're both trying to make it as unexpected as possible. 

In the Arya/Sansa plot, the careful viewer should know that Sansa wasn't gonna kill Arya. It's just how they badly they wrote the entire thing to make viewers actually convinced of this, because it wasn't very convincing. And they didnt ask themselves "does this plot need to exist at all?" Like no, it didn't.

Yeah, interested to see that video about facial emoting.

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1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I differ here. There is a great video out there that has compiled many quotes by Cogman, D&D, and the actors that explains how the showrunners go more for facial "emoting" than acting and conveyance. When I find it I will post it because I had no idea so much of this play-down acting was actually the goal.

Yeah, but GRRM wanting to surprise readers is not the same as flip-flopping on an arc just to make up a twist. His "twists" are always planned from the beginning. Even out of his ASOIAF writing, he likes to "make things his own" as he says, so he is never ripping off what he is inspired by. The show is very different because they write scene to scene.

“I’ve been planting all these clues that the butler did it, then you’re halfway through a series and suddenly thousands of people have figured out that the butler did it, and then you say the chambermaid did it? No, you can’t do that,” --GRRM

I have to be honest, bless you for even thinking about bothering to look for some of the ridiculous crap said, done, and learned over the years.  Those gods awful script notes we've found deposited at colleges and emmy institutions tell me that the face is supposed to register the childish thoughts that go with half the story they've written.  At this point, I'm not even really interested in reasonings of bullshit artists just trying to get it over with. 

And, for my part.........I actually forgot to look for that new issue of EW when I was running errands.  OOPS!!  I guess that says how much it all is really weighing on me, huh? 

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3 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I differ here. There is a great video out there that has compiled many quotes by Cogman, D&D, and the actors that explains how the showrunners go more for facial "emoting" than acting and conveyance. When I find it I will post it because I had no idea so much of this play-down acting was actually the goal.

I agree. The more experienced actors do well, but the performances of the less experienced ones suffer from lack of proper direction. And even among the experienced (and excellent) actors, we see how the lack of direction has an impact. For instance, we have Ian McElhinney, who has read the books and is a fan having a better understanding of ser Barristan and the story as a whole than, say, the great Stephen Dillane. Remember what Dillane said about the type of “direction” he received? :lol:

3 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Yeah, but GRRM wanting to surprise readers is not the same as flip-flopping on an arc just to make up a twist. His "twists" are always planned from the beginning. Even out of his ASOIAF writing, he likes to "make things his own" as he says, so he is never ripping off what he is inspired by. The show is very different because they write scene to scene.

“I’ve been planting all these clues that the butler did it, then you’re halfway through a series and suddenly thousands of people have figured out that the butler did it, and then you say the chambermaid did it? No, you can’t do that,” --GRRM

Wholeheartedly agree. The twists and surprises in the novels are seeded, foreshadowed, hinted at, etc. And when shit happens and you’re, “what! Wait...”, you go back and it’s all there. The show otoh goes for the shock and awe, regardless of the twists being nonsensical and stupid. 

After watching the BotB the other night, I have now watched one or two episodes from s 7, and wow... just WOW. Some of the scenes are so stupid .i can’t wrap my head around them. It was so bad that the spouse was explaining things for me, he who hasn’t read the books nor watches the show! :D

 

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4 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I differ here. There is a great video out there that has compiled many quotes by Cogman, D&D, and the actors that explains how the showrunners go more for facial "emoting" than acting and conveyance. When I find it I will post it because I had no idea so much of this play-down acting was actually the goal.

Is it from The Dragon Demands? His videos are loooong but so informative. Hardcore show fans look down on him and ridicule him (and anyone who mentions him) but he goes out of his way to search for interviews etc. with the BTS people. He did the 'face emoting' thing I believe. He also did the S5 Sansa story and more.

Caution: You might actually loose brain cells when you are bombarded with so much stupid from D&D, Cogman etc..

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6 minutes ago, Mystical said:

Is it from The Dragon Demands? His videos are loooong but so informative. Hardcore show fans look down on him and ridicule him (and anyone who mentions him) but he goes out of his way to search for interviews etc. with the BTS people. He did the 'face emoting' thing I believe. He also did the S5 Sansa story and more.

Caution: You might actually loose brain cells when you are bombarded with so much stupid from D&D, Cogman etc..

I don’t know if @The Fattest Leech was referencing @The Dragon Demands‘s videos... but I completely agree w/ you. He does a great job putting all the hackery together for all to see. It’s all there, and I’m sure hardcore show fans (!!!) are not gonna be too keen on his stuff. Denial is a force to be reckoned with, I suppose. 

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And this time it’s 6 eps, is that it? Can we summarise it thus: 

two battles, who fucks who, and who dies. The end. :lol:

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mystical said:

Is it from The Dragon Demands? His videos are loooong but so informative. Hardcore show fans look down on him and ridicule him (and anyone who mentions him) but he goes out of his way to search for interviews etc. with the BTS people. He did the 'face emoting' thing I believe. He also did the S5 Sansa story and more.

Caution: You might actually loose brain cells when you are bombarded with so much stupid from D&D, Cogman etc..

 

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

I don’t know if @The Fattest Leech was referencing @The Dragon Demands‘s videos... but I completely agree w/ you. He does a great job putting all the hackery together for all to see. It’s all there, and I’m sure hardcore show fans (!!!) are not gonna be too keen on his stuff. Denial is a force to be reckoned with, I suppose. 

Yes. I was referring to @The Dragon Demands and his video. Sorry, it has been a busy day and I haven’t been able to find and post the video yet. I Will soon...

also, I don’t take to heart much what hardcore show fans say, because as they used to often repeat, the “right” way to enjoy the show as to turn your brain off. :wacko:

But, back to the show...

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Can you give an example of D&D changing it to the chambermaid? 

I only have a second and will reply more when I get to my computer, but I can’t give an example of the chambermaid doing it because it has never been changed to the chambermaid... it was always the Butler from a GRRM story :devil: :cheers:

 

The D’s yeah, but much more convoluted than I can type right now 

Quote

I just mean that D&D know the endgame, and so does George, so they're both trying to make it as unexpected as possible. 

In the Arya/Sansa plot, the careful viewer should know that Sansa wasn't gonna kill Arya. It's just how they badly they wrote the entire thing to make viewers actually convinced of this, because it wasn't very convincing. And they didnt ask themselves "does this plot need to exist at all?" Like no, it didn't.

 

Yeah, interested to see that video about facial emoting.

I promise I’ll get that video soon. 

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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3 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

But, back to the show...

Yes, let’s. 

So, I watched a couple of older eps, too. The one where King Bob is at Winterfell, the RW one ( :rolleyes: ), and one w/ a ridiculous convo between Doran and Ellaria. Yes, the Doran/Ellaria scene is fairly recent, and post the stupendous jumping of the proverbial shark. The RW was pathetic, and for reasons of self-preserving brain cells I had completely obliterated the idiocy that was Talisa whatsherfsce from memory. I wasn’t happy to reacquaint myself w/ the character... but by s03, despite a few salvageable scenes, it was already obvious it was all turning to complete rubbish (shock! Tits! So edgy!).

What actually did surprise me was how wonky I thought the ep from s01 was... obviously not as atrocious as some things from later series, but still, so damn wonky. Costumes are bad already, wigs are dementedly bad, acting from inexperienced crew leaves much to be desired, and overall bias of the show runners against certain characters (Cat and Jaime) and for certain others (Tyrion and Cersei) is already painfully obvious. Yikes. 

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2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

What actually did surprise me was how wonky I thought the ep from s01 was... obviously not as atrocious as some things from later series, but still, so damn wonky. Costumes are bad already, wigs are dementedly bad, acting from inexperienced crew leaves much to be desired, and overall bias of the show runners against certain characters (Cat and Jaime) and for certain others (Tyrion and Cersei) is already painfully obvious. Yikes. 

I swear to you, I wouldn't be surprised to see Night's King defeated first and THEN dealing with Cersei. I feel like Cersei overstayed her welcome last season. She should have been dealt with in Season 7, but noooo...

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14 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Yes, let’s. 

So, I watched a couple of older eps, too. The one where King Bob is at Winterfell, the RW one ( :rolleyes: ), and one w/ a ridiculous convo between Doran and Ellaria. Yes, the Doran/Ellaria scene is fairly recent, and post the stupendous jumping of the proverbial shark. The RW was pathetic, and for reasons of self-preserving brain cells I had completely obliterated the idiocy that was Talisa whatsherfsce from memory. I wasn’t happy to reacquaint myself w/ the character... but by s03, despite a few salvageable scenes, it was already obvious it was all turning to complete rubbish (shock! Tits! So edgy!).

What actually did surprise me was how wonky I thought the ep from s01 was... obviously not as atrocious as some things from later series, but still, so damn wonky. Costumes are bad already, wigs are dementedly bad, acting from inexperienced crew leaves much to be desired, and overall bias of the show runners against certain characters (Cat and Jaime) and for certain others (Tyrion and Cersei) is already painfully obvious. Yikes. 

 

12 hours ago, Risto said:

I swear to you, I wouldn't be surprised to see Night's King defeated first and THEN dealing with Cersei. I feel like Cersei overstayed her welcome last season. She should have been dealt with in Season 7, but noooo...

The character bias does show from that first episode.  Looking back, I'm surprised we've been surprised, ya know?  LOL  I stumbled on Tyrion's s4 speech during his trial for Joff's murder, as well as Oberyn's 'I will be your champion' visit to him in the cells, and it made me miss seeing even a hint of Book Tyrion.  I'm tired of complaining about St. Tyrion, ya know?  Well, I'm more tired of his existence..................

Anyway, I will be surprised if Cersei isn't the last BIG BAD for the show.  I've been under the impression that she will be the last to go.  Granted, I may have the filming clues wrong, but it seems that's the way it looks to go down.  Or, it'll be a pretty close thing on who goes first, her or NK. 

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Oh, I l did just find this out on the Twitters.  It seems the first two epis this season come in under an hour.  I gotta laugh at the idea that this last season was going to be the equivalent of a feature film per episode.  HA

https://winteriscoming.net/2019/03/10/runtimes-first-two-episodes-game-thrones-season-8-revealed/

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