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The Fattest Leech

Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

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3 minutes ago, Vaith said:

Let's not forget that the Dothraki had completely normal, i.e. pointless weapons, before Melisandre lit them on fire. Dany's first line of defense literally could not have worked without a Red Priestess showing up. 

 

3 minutes ago, Vaith said:

Let's not forget that the Dothraki had completely normal, i.e. pointless weapons, before Melisandre lit them on fire. Dany's first line of defense literally could not have worked without a Red Priestess showing up. 

Surely the sensible course would be to have the dragons blazing a path through the army of the dead, just before the Dothraki charge met them, as Dany did with the Lannisters.

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14 minutes ago, SeanF said:

 

Surely the sensible course would be to have the dragons blazing a path through the army of the dead, just before the Dothraki charge met them, as Dany did with the Lannisters.

At the very least to give them a little light so they know what in the hell they were charging into.

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I simply don't believe it. They have to be trolling us.

I simply don't believe the execs would have let that go out as the final resolution to the arc of the others. 

Or perhaps I am still in denial and still have anger, bargaining and depression to get through.

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16 hours ago, divica said:

Why does lyanna mormont get to kill a giant when no one else killed anything special?

Because they couldn’t resist squeezing the story of David & Goliath in there.

Couldn’t they give Bran something to do? Something minor, even, like going cross eyed for a second to distract the NK, given his ability to do things with his eyes? Perhaps that would have lessened Arya’s heroism to much.

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Can I just say Jon standing up and screaming at the ice dragon should have just been him standing there calmly with a hand up saying, "Sorry, bud.  Plot armor.  You can't do a thing."

I feel bad for Maisie and the other younger actors.  They are getting some HORRIBLE lessons on how to do things.  Some of her interviews post this week's episode she's saying that moments like the Night King scene have to be done in a really big and really cool/awesome way and they don't really need to be about the story leading up to them.  That's hack story telling, and comes across like shit, but it'll be the type of lesson these younger folks will hold onto their entire careers.

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1 minute ago, Dragons Are Real said:

Can I just say Jon standing up and screaming at the ice dragon should have just been him standing there calmly with a hand up saying, "Sorry, bud.  Plot armor.  You can't do a thing."

IT would be funnier if he was dancing and saying "you can t touch me"

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18 hours ago, Vaith said:

I have yet to see how D&D supposedly love Sansa. 

IIRC, Benioff did say that Sansa is his favorite character in the past. In a recent interview, he said that Sansa’s character has had the most development over the course of the series. Apparently, he considers her constant complaining, strutting around inspecting armors and supply stores, smug attitude, concealing vital information from her brother, and undermining said brother in public as all part of her character development. And off camera she became the smartest person, so I guess her character development storyline got chopped in the editing room. 

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14 hours ago, SeanF said:

 

Surely the sensible course would be to have the dragons blazing a path through the army of the dead, just before the Dothraki charge met them, as Dany did with the Lannisters.

But that wouldn’t work for D&D’s “creative” storytelling. They needed to get rid of the Dothraki and they came up with this brilliant idea and hoped that viewers would be none the wiser. 

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16 minutes ago, teej6 said:

IIRC, Benioff did say that Sansa is his favorite character in the past. In a recent interview, he said that Sansa’s character has had the most development over the course of the series. Apparently, he considers her constant complaining, strutting around inspecting armors and supply stores, smug attitude, concealing vital information from her brother, and undermining said brother in public as all part of her character development. And off camera she became the smartest person, so I guess her character development storyline got chopped in the editing room. 

Character development ... seems to be when a character varies from one episode to a next. I will say again that the Sansa that Benioff & Weiss write is a lot less competent than Hill or Cogman's Sansa. That Sansa is fairly consistent about keeping her political concerns private and being concerned about food, though this Sansa complains about Dany in front of all her people and does nothing to help them.

I don't know... I'm a pretty big book Sansa fan myself, and yet I just can't fathom how anyone who liked Sansa cut her storyline in the Vale to become Ramsay's wife. That completely detracts from the "character development" argument. She goes to a hostage victim in KL, to Littlefinger's protegee in the Vale, to hostage victim in WF, to Littlefinger's protegee in the North. Seems like a choice to keep Harry and sideline WF would be the more fitting for an ardent Sansa fan. Hell, she doesn't even get credit for that huge Vale army at the end -- nobody discusses how Sansa is the last known legitimate child of Eddard Stark when they're crowning Jon. Sansa as Queen in the North would have been a more fitting decision from Sansa "fans."

I have heard that Benioff's fave, or at least the one he says he "identifies most with" ... is Tyrion. Tyrion who is so witty and funny he can get offered free sex from a sex slave who doesn't consider what her master would think, because St. Tyrion is here. A Tyrion who makes mistakes every episode, yet is constantly showered in praise by Varys or Dany every episode for no apparent reason. Hell, Sansa's own storyline is affected by Tyrion -- she doesn't refuse to kneel as an act of defiance on her wedding, because that might have upset Tyrion. Before getting raped at her wedding, she tells Ramsay how kind Tyrion was to her... by not raping her? And during this episode by D&D, telling Tyrion that he was a great husband (better than Ramsay, and that's an achievement now?) instead of being with her people in the crypts. If you want to look for a character that's done absolutely nothing and gets unduly rewarded by the narrative, he's your guy.  

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1 minute ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

Benioff and Weiss are anything but Sansa fans.  They actually went out of their way to cut a scene in the last episode where Sansa was killing the wights in the crypts.

And they were also fine with Emilia Clarke's improv to have Dany wield a sword herself. So it ends up that Sansa is comparatively the more "useless" one despite her filmed scenes of killing wights vs. the original intention of Dany being more of a damsel defended by Jorah. 

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10 minutes ago, Vaith said:

Character development ... seems to be when a character varies from one episode to a next. I will say again that the Sansa that Benioff & Weiss write is a lot less competent than Hill or Cogman's Sansa. That Sansa is fairly consistent about keeping her political concerns private and being concerned about food, though this Sansa complains about Dany in front of all her people and does nothing to help them.

I don't know... I'm a pretty big book Sansa fan myself, and yet I just can't fathom how anyone who liked Sansa cut her storyline in the Vale to become Ramsay's wife. That completely detracts from the "character development" argument. She goes to a hostage victim in KL, to Littlefinger's protegee in the Vale, to hostage victim in WF, to Littlefinger's protegee in the North. Seems like a choice to keep Harry and sideline WF would be the more fitting for an ardent Sansa fan. Hell, she doesn't even get credit for that huge Vale army at the end -- nobody discusses how Sansa is the last known legitimate child of Eddard Stark when they're crowning Jon. Sansa as Queen in the North would have been a more fitting decision from Sansa "fans."

I have heard that Benioff's fave, or at least the one he says he "identifies most with" ... is Tyrion. Tyrion who is so witty and funny he can get offered free sex from a sex slave who doesn't consider what her master would think, because St. Tyrion is here. A Tyrion who makes mistakes every episode, yet is constantly showered in praise by Varys or Dany every episode for no apparent reason. Hell, Sansa's own storyline is affected by Tyrion -- she doesn't refuse to kneel as an act of defiance on her wedding, because that might have upset Tyrion. Before getting raped at her wedding, she tells Ramsay how kind Tyrion was to her... by not raping her? And during this episode by D&D, telling Tyrion that he was a great husband (better than Ramsay, and that's an achievement now?) instead of being with her people in the crypts. If you want to look for a character that's done absolutely nothing and gets unduly rewarded by the narrative, he's your guy.  

I completely agree with the lack of any development in Sansa’s character (or most other characters for that matter) on the show. I’m just saying that in Benioff’s mind, Show Sansa has developed the most among the central characters. Here’s the link to the article where he states that: https://www.google.com/amp/s/ew.com/tv/2019/04/18/game-of-thrones-character-change/amp/

I fail to see this progression and although I’m ambivalent to Book Sansa, I really can’t stand the character on the show. This link refers to the 2016 VF article where Benioff states that Sansa is his favorite: https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/David_Benioff

The problem with the writers is how they perceive characters/ stories in their heads does not translate to their scripts. Their writing skills are so bad that they can’t even write well for a character they claim to like.

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22 minutes ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

Benioff and Weiss are anything but Sansa fans.  They actually went out of their way to cut a scene in the last episode where Sansa was killing the wights in the crypts.

Having Sansa fight wights would be beyond ridiculous. I’m glad they didn’t include that. It’s ridiculous enough that she’s turned out to be the smartest person without them showing anything to support that. Having her also become a wight killing warrior would be complete rubbish. 

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2 minutes ago, teej6 said:

Having Sansa fight wights would be beyond ridiculous. I’m glad they didn’t include that. It’s ridiculous enough that she’s turned out to be the smartest person without them showing anything to support that. Having her also become a wight killing warrior would be complete rubbish. 

Dany also wielded a sword passably enough to kill wights. I don't know why Sansa sneaking up on a wight with a dagger would be that unrealistic, epecially with Arya saying "stick em with the pointy end" at the beginning of the episode.

Besides, those wights have to be comparatively weaker. The most recent are years or decades old, some centuries or millennia old. More likely to be brittle than the wights outside (which begs the question of how near skeletons can simultaneously all break out of stone coffins and statues, too, but oh well) 

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25 minutes ago, teej6 said:

Having Sansa fight wights would be beyond ridiculous. I’m glad they didn’t include that. It’s ridiculous enough that she’s turned out to be the smartest person without them showing anything to support that. Having her also become a wight killing warrior would be complete rubbish. 

Just wait, despite cutting it from the actual episode, it'll get referenced later on.

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18 minutes ago, Vaith said:

Dany also wielded a sword passably enough to kill wights. I don't know why Sansa sneaking up on a wight with a dagger would be that unrealistic, epecially with Arya saying "stick em with the pointy end" at the beginning of the episode.

Besides, those wights have to be comparatively weaker. The most recent are years or decades old, some centuries or millennia old. More likely to be brittle than the wights outside (which begs the question of how near skeletons can simultaneously all break out of stone coffins and statues, too, but oh well) 

Dany has been in battles before and portrayed as a warrior princess. Granted, she has not been shown to have one-on-one fights with her enemies, but then again her sword wielding skills may have come from the same place Sansa’s smarts came from — off screen. Sansa fighting wights would be pure fan service.

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1 minute ago, teej6 said:

Dany has been in battles before and portrayed as a warrior princess. Granted, she has not been shown to have one-on-one fights with her enemies, but then again her sword wielding skills may have come from the same place Sansa’s smarts came from — off screen. Sansa fighting wights would be pure fan service.

Not really. She's a tactician and a dragonrider, which isn't really a transferable skill to wielding a weapon. Not sure why it makes more sense for Dany than Sansa, especially when Arya gave Sansa a weapon at the beginning. 

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Vaith said:

Not really. She's a tactician and a dragonrider, which isn't really a transferable skill to wielding a weapon. Not sure why it makes more sense for Dany than Sansa, especially when Arya gave Sansa a weapon at the beginning. 

She has been living among a warrior tribe since the first season, two of her closest advisors, GW and Jorah are seasoned warriors, it would make sense that even subliminally she would have picked up a little something about fighting skills, I thought it was a good moment for her, and I don't even like her.  The good moment for Sansa would not have been also turned into a warrior but that she would have done SOMETHING to comfort her people, the people she claims to care so much for, instead of hiding like a coward and a quitter. 

Edited by Cas Stark

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