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Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

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2 minutes ago, divica said:

why not? she is an assassin. she trained for it… (stupid mode off)

I think we all know she will kill somebody important...

Mmmm. Like Vaith implies, she's done her 'big kill'. Only a really naff writer would repeat that. Oh wait .....

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14 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Mmmm. Like Vaith implies, she's done her 'big kill'. Only a really naff writer would repeat that. Oh wait .....

Sending a faceless assassin into KL with our present scenario and she doing nothing important is also rather stupid. 

I think whatever happens will be bad… 

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8 hours ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

An excellent video on why Theon should have killed the NK:

 

Thank you so much for posting this. Episode 3 itself left me cold, but this youtube video actually made me cry. Alfie would have been brilliant in it. 

I quit watching after episode 3, not rage quitting or anything, but I just don't care anymore after so much theme, moral and meaning have been destroyed. I still track the plot of the rest of the episodes and have seen some clips here and there mostly to look for any ideas relating to the books, but my headcanon version of episode 3 is my ending unless D&D manage the impossible and turn the rest of the season around. Not holding my breath. 

Now I have that really great ending, one which was suggested by the youtuber. Theon is able to stab the NK because after all Theon's been through, the NK completely underestimates the pain that Theon can endure which gives Theon's arc so much more meaning. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I think it is more critical of this ep than the season.

The first 3 eps are full of rushed storylines (the NK, jon riding a dragon without knowing he is a targ, jon's reaction to r+l=j...) but until the lasp ep aired all was good for the critics…

This criticism is just appearing now because fans hated ep 3 and started to criticize GOT. So these suposed critics now have to find something to criticize GOT without contradicting themselves.

And the big problem HBO and D&D should have at the moment is that acording to the leaks and actors interviews the finale will be divise (suck) and people already hate this season. I wouldn t be surprised if major media start some kind of damage control...

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10 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Thank you so much for posting this. Episode 3 itself left me cold, but this youtube video actually made me cry. Alfie would have been brilliant in it. 

I quit watching after episode 3, not rage quitting or anything, but I just don't care anymore after so much theme, moral and meaning have been destroyed. I still track the plot of the rest of the episodes and have seen some clips here and there mostly to look for any ideas relating to the books, but my headcanon version of episode 3 is my ending unless D&D manage the impossible and turn the rest of the season around. Not holding my breath. 

Now I have that really great ending, one which was suggested by the youtuber. Theon is able to stab the NK because after all Theon's been through, the NK completely underestimates the pain that Theon can endure which gives Theon's arc so much more meaning. 

 

meh. theon killing the NK alone would have been equally bad or worse than arya. And most of the arguments used are kind of flawed because they can be used for anyone fighting the dead… 

The only way to kill something that should be unbeatable would be to make it a team effort with a good plan/strategy.

And I really hate when people say something shouldn t happen because it is a classic, or chiche or a trope… First, things are classics, clichés or tropes because they are good enough so that people want to see them in a lot of stories. And much more important than something expected happening is how it is done! As long as it is well done with a touch of originality people will like it even if it is expected.

And it is what happens in most of his examples… The vídeo defends that theon should have defeated the NK, but doesn t say that it should be lando calrisian to kill the emperror in order to represent the victory of ordinary citzens agains the evil empire, or that it should be neville killing Voldemort because he sufered as much as Harry and spent all his years training for that moment...

People just don t want to see those things. They expect their heroes to matter and kill the bad guy… And even if they don t give the final attack that they should be instrumental in defeating it.

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27 minutes ago, divica said:

I think it is more critical of this ep than the season.

The first 3 eps are full of rushed storylines (the NK, jon riding a dragon without knowing he is a targ, jon's reaction to r+l=j...) but until the lasp ep aired all was good for the critics…

This criticism is just appearing now because fans hated ep 3 and started to criticize GOT. So these suposed critics now have to find something to criticize GOT without contradicting themselves.

And the big problem HBO and D&D should have at the moment is that acording to the leaks and actors interviews the finale will be divise (suck) and people already hate this season. I wouldn t be surprised if major media start some kind of damage control...

This is part of the problem with critics, it seems there are only two kinds. One that go with whatever the popular opinion is. People love it? Then there is nothing wrong with it at all, everything is perfect!

Or, I hate this show and it's awful and everything about it sucks, even if it's got some bright spots.

We haven't had an honest critic (or very few I should say).

But Episode 3 and 4, somewhere in there, seemed to be the tipping point. Now it will be interesting to see what happens if enough CGI dragon action/explosions can bring general audiences and critics back? Or if they are already at the point of no return.

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33 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

This is part of the problem with critics, it seems there are only two kinds. One that go with whatever the popular opinion is. People love it? Then there is nothing wrong with it at all, everything is perfect!

Or, I hate this show and it's awful and everything about it sucks, even if it's got some bright spots.

We haven't had an honest critic (or very few I should say).

You're right, and it's a reflection of how polarized the social media society has become everywhere, but to be fair here, the title of this very thread is

Rant & Rave Season 8

i.e. you either rant (hate!) or rave (love!). If you have something moderate, nuanced and sensible to say, go and create your own thread that no one will read ;)

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1 minute ago, House Cambodia said:

You're right, and it's a reflection of how polarized the social media society has become everywhere, but to be fair here, the title of this very thread is

Rant & Rave Season 8

i.e. you either rant (hate!) or rave (love!). If you have something moderate, nuanced and sensible to say, go and create your own thread that no one will read ;)

haha touche! That is very true.

Though, I don't know if I have seen much raving in the past few weeks......

But it amazing how polarized social media has become. If you didn't know better you would think people are constantly yelling at each other in real life.

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4 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

The article is right to point out how these last couple seasons aren't even 'about' anything.  To me, it almost just seems it's a giant checklist, interspersed with SURPRISE SHOCK AND AWE.  What there is of a story just reeks of.......the Ds disinterest, if not dislike, of the whole thing. 

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56 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

The article is right to point out how these last couple seasons aren't even 'about' anything.  To me, it almost just seems it's a giant checklist, interspersed with SURPRISE SHOCK AND AWE.  What there is of a story just reeks of.......the Ds disinterest, if not dislike, of the whole thing. 

Showrunners have been spinning their wheels with filler since 6, its easy now to see why they brought back the Riverlands stuff out of sequence, because it was from the books, pre-written and organized, easy for them to 'adapt' and fill some space.  

I do think that if they had 2 good writers, like BB level good writers, who they worked with for the whole series, where they could lay out, we want to see X scene, which is all they ever cared about, and Y has to happen this season and let other writers write the show where they were only guiding and overseeing it...would have turned out much better in the long run.

Of course one could wonder why, after Troy, anyone, including GRRM, would have allowed Benioff near this kind of complex material.

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6 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Of course one could wonder why, after Troy, anyone, including GRRM, would have allowed Benioff near this kind of complex material.

Are you talking about brad pit's troy movie? I liked that lol.

And it would have been better for everybody if they just left the show after season 5 or 6. If they wanted to rush the final they should just have left and let someone with passion for the project to continue...

This way I hope they get their careers ruined.

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13 minutes ago, divica said:

Are you talking about brad pit's troy movie? I liked that lol.

And it would have been better for everybody if they just left the show after season 5 or 6. If they wanted to rush the final they should just have left and let someone with passion for the project to continue...

This way I hope they get their careers ruined.

Troy was a lot like GOT, though, wasn't it?  It had some good parts, a good cast, but still a lot of dumb changes from the source material that weakened the story, and some cringy dialogue. 

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1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

Troy was a lot like GOT, though, wasn't it?  It had some good parts, a good cast, but still a lot of dumb changes from the source material that weakened the story, and some cringy dialogue. 

I didn t read the original material, but is one of the few works from ulisses point of view.

I think the whole conflict ulisses vs hector was very well done. kept the relationship between ulisses and his cousin (?) open to interpretation pretty well...

The romance between helen and paris wasn t explained… And neither was the romance between ulisses and the woman he falls in love with… And the troyans also changed from geniuses to utter idiots pretty fast…

But over all I liked it.

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10 hours ago, Vaith said:

Would they really give Arya both Big Bad kills?

I hope not, as it would be ridiculous and stupid and nothing a real writer would ever consider.  Which leaves me with a feeling of dread about these two and their "that'd just be too expected" garbage.  It should be Jamie.  And I swear, if Jamie is going back to Cersei to be the loyal lapdog again at this point, I will do something stupid.

Most likely just keep ranting  here, but something.

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7 hours ago, divica said:

meh. theon killing the NK alone would have been equally bad or worse than arya. And most of the arguments used are kind of flawed because they can be used for anyone fighting the dead… 

The only way to kill something that should be unbeatable would be to make it a team effort with a good plan/strategy.

And I really hate when people say something shouldn t happen because it is a classic, or chiche or a trope… First, things are classics, clichés or tropes because they are good enough so that people want to see them in a lot of stories. And much more important than something expected happening is how it is done! As long as it is well done with a touch of originality people will like it even if it is expected.

And it is what happens in most of his examples… The vídeo defends that theon should have defeated the NK, but doesn t say that it should be lando calrisian to kill the emperror in order to represent the victory of ordinary citzens agains the evil empire, or that it should be neville killing Voldemort because he sufered as much as Harry and spent all his years training for that moment...

People just don t want to see those things. They expect their heroes to matter and kill the bad guy… And even if they don t give the final attack that they should be instrumental in defeating it.

Please don't speak for me. This would bore me to tears and if GRRM wrote this way, I wouldn't have made through the first book. Luckily it's GRRM the fancier of gray characters and redemption arcs who is writing the books rather than someone who likes blah white heroes/black villains stories. 

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7 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Please don't speak for me. This would bore me to tears and if GRRM wrote this way, I wouldn't have made through the first book. Luckily it's GRRM the fancier of gray characters and redemption arcs who is writing the books rather than someone who likes blah white heroes/black villains stories. 

What do black villains and white heroes have to do with wanting that the main characters in the story arcs are the ones responsable for ending the story arc of at least are instrumental?

Having a gray character be the one responsable to kill the bad guy even though he didn t know about the bad guy or had any relation to him until 5 min ago makes sense how? Because he is a gray character?

It would make much more sense for theon to have a role in uniting the greyjoys to the starks or helping in defeating the boltons than having him defeat the NK because he became a good person… That could be aplied to nearly anybody fighting the dead...

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