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The Fattest Leech

Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

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11 minutes ago, divica said:

What do black villains and white heroes have to do with wanting that the main characters in the story arcs are the ones responsable for ending the story arc of at least are instrumental?

Having a gray character be the one responsable to kill the bad guy even though he didn t know about the bad guy or had any relation to him until 5 min ago makes sense how? Because he is a gray character?

It would make much more sense for theon to have a role in uniting the greyjoys to the starks or helping in defeating the boltons than having him defeat the NK because he became a good person… That could be aplied to nearly anybody fighting the dead...

7 hours ago, divica said:

People just don t want to see those things. They expect their heroes to matter and kill the bad guy… And even if they don t give the final attack that they should be instrumental in defeating it.

Both Theon and Arya have been POVs from the very first. This series isn't the Jon and Dany show and I appreciate that the books aren't written that way. To have all of the big events, especially those as challenging as the NK should have been all be dispatched by the "heroes" Jon and Dany completely obliterates the theme that people have to work together against big challenges from which the game distracts us. It turns all of the other characters into accessories for what some perceive as the two main characters which makes the story like all of the others. 

Sorry, but these books aren't putting forth that every other character is just a Robin to Jon's and Dany's Batman. 

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2 hours ago, divica said:

I didn t read the original material, but is one of the few works from ulisses point of view.

I think the whole conflict ulisses vs hector was very well done. kept the relationship between ulisses and his cousin (?) open to interpretation pretty well...

The romance between helen and paris wasn t explained… And neither was the romance between ulisses and the woman he falls in love with… And the troyans also changed from geniuses to utter idiots pretty fast…

But over all I liked it.

Ulisses = Odysseus, he is not Achiles.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Both Theon and Arya have been POVs from the very first. This series isn't the Jon and Dany show and I appreciate that the books aren't written that way. To have all of the big events, especially those as challenging as the NK should have been all be dispatched by the "heroes" Jon and Dany completely obliterates the theme that people have to work together against big challenges from which the game distracts us. It turns all of the other characters into accessories for what some perceive as the two main characters which makes the story like all of the others. 

Sorry, but these books aren't putting forth that every other character is just a Robin to Jon's and Dany's Batman.  

wtf? How is killing the NK the only big event of the story? 

Like who kills the freys? who kills littlefinger? who kills cersei? who kills the mountain? if any faceless apears who will deal with him? who rescued sansa? who rescued yara? who protected bran?

Arya or theon killing the NK is as bad as jon or danny doing those things… It just isn t their story! To each character their own… And in a good story both theon and arya can have their big moment that satisfies their story arc... IT doesn t need to steal the story of other characters….

And this isn t white heroes… Is good writing. As I wrote, people want the main characters in a story arc to be responsable to end that story arc or at least to be crucial in ending it. Otherwise their story becomes useless...

And I began by saying that killing the NK should be a team effort. That theon killing him alone like arya did would be just as bad… Which you don t agree...

Edited by divica

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1 minute ago, sweetsunray said:

Ulisses = Odysseus, he is not Achiles.

OMG 

How did I switch their names!? Every time I wrote ulisses I obviously meant achiles!

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1 minute ago, divica said:

OMG 

How did I switch their names!? Every time I wrote ulisses I obviously meant achiles!

Blame it on one of the D's :lmao:

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Just now, divica said:

wtf? How is killing the NK the only big event of the story? 

Like who kills the freys? who kills littlefinger? who kills cersei? who kills the mountain? if any faceless apears who will deal with him? who rescued sansa? who rescued yara? who protected bran? 

Arya or theon killing the NK is as bad as jon or danny doing those things… It just isn t their story! To each character their own… And in a good story both theon and arya can have their big moment that satisfies their story arc... IT doesn t need to steal the story of other characters…. 

And this isn t white heroes… Is good writing. As I wrote, people want the main characters in a story arc to be responsable to end that story arc.

And I began by saying that killing the NK should be a team effort. That theon killing him alone like arya did would be just as bad… Which you don t agree...

Bold: that's not what I said. 

The NK is everyone's story. That's THE theme of the book. He's death coming for them all if they don't quit the Game of Thrones. I agree that it's weird that Arya killed the NK because Jon and NK have one-on-ones, but that's bad writing antithetical to the theme. They put Jon up against the NK because it'd look cool and didn't think out how to do it later. The problem isn't that the "hero" didn't kill the NK, it's the bad set up by D&D. Book Jon has never even seen an Other.

I don't agree with you as to who the main characters are. The main characters are the POVs, especially the early ones. Again, this ain't the Jon and Dany show. I'm also not assuming to know who the heroes and villains are. We thought Ned was the big hero...oh wait. Ok, now it's gotta be Robb. Wellllll, no. Same with the villains. That Jaime's awful...ok, maybe not so much. Theon's horrid and deserves awful things for what he's done...ok, I don't think that anymore at all. 

No, there should have been clear points where people could see each character/family making a very important contribution to end the Others to reinforce the theme of it taking everyone working together. But unless there's some weird gang up, one person is still left to make the killing blow. It's Theon in my headcanon. Especially given his history with Winterfell, which happened to be where Winter fell in the show. 

 

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1 minute ago, Lollygag said:

Bold: that's not what I said. 

The NK is everyone's story. That's THE theme of the book. He's death coming for them all if they don't quit the Game of Thrones. I agree that it's weird that Arya killed the NK because Jon and NK have one-on-ones, but that's bad writing antithetical to the theme. They put Jon up against the NK because it'd look cool and didn't think out how to do it later. The problem isn't that the "hero" didn't kill the NK, it's the bad set up by D&D. Book Jon has never even seen an Other.

I don't agree with you as to who the main characters are. The main characters are the POVs, especially the early ones. Again, this ain't the Jon and Dany show. I'm also not assuming to know who the heroes and villains are. We thought Ned was the big hero...oh wait. Ok, now it's gotta be Robb. Wellllll, no. Same with the villains. That Jaime's awful...ok, maybe not so much. Theon's horrid and deserves awful things for what he's done...ok, I don't think that anymore at all. 

No, there should have been clear points where people could see each character/family making a very important contribution to end the Others to reinforce the theme of it taking everyone working together. But unless there's some weird gang up, one person is still left to make the killing blow. It's Theon in my headcanon. Especially given his history with Winterfell, which happened to be where Winter fell in the show. 

 

You don t understand or ignore the expression "main characters in a story arc to be responsable to end that story arc"... I am not saying that jon or danny are the main characters of asoiaf! I am saying that they are the main characters of their story arcs! And for jon's and bran's it happens to be dealing with the NK...

Each character has their story where they are the main hero. For jon and bran it is the fight against the others. Defeating them and saving westeros is all their characters have focused for years. For arya is killing the people in her list and seek her revenge, deal with the faceless story and with the conflict between being no one and arya stark. For theon it is about his redemption, returning to be theon, uniting the iron born in the north wit the starks (book only)... And I don t mean other characters can t participate in these arcs. They just can t replace the importance of each charater in their story arc! And having theon or arya killing the NK alone is robbing jon, bran and even danny of their story arc!

Theon's story has absolutly nothing to do with the NK. IT makes no sense to be him who kills him and ends the long night… I am sorry, but theon killing the NK is as bad as jon rescuing yara from euron...

 

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5 hours ago, Nowy Tends said:

Ep 4 "The last of the Starks" now rated 6.5 at IMDb, 58% at Rotten Tomatoes…

LOL  That's a thing of beauty.  Oddly enough, I'm not someone who rates episodes.  I don't really 'get it.'  I do not have the urge to assign a score to things I watch, read, etc., especially things that air once a week or such.  So, while I don't participate in that, I am finding a bit of joy in observing the numbers come tumbling down, just like the Wall.....s!! 

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8 hours ago, Nowy Tends said:

Ep 4 "The last of the Starks" now rated 6.5 at IMDb, 58% at Rotten Tomatoes…

Funnily enough, there has also been a turn in people/posters/etc who used to rely on such ratings to "prove" that the show is super awesome despite what ranters have been saying. All of the sudden, since the ratings have dropped this season, the speculation is now the ratings system is filled with haters downgrading just because. I mean, it couldn't possibly be the overall script writing, plot direction, cinematography, etc of the show, so much so that the general media is actually braving to hone in on it. Noooo, it has to be the naysayers that just hate the show and ruin everyone's breakfast cereal for the fun of it.

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Just now, Trigger Warning said:

The fact that neither Euron nor any of the Ironborn celebrate killing a god damned dragon is a perfect example of how the world in the show is so lifeless now, they're all just there, standing there going about their business, emotionless plugins on a cgi ship. 

That is a very good point, although, the less I see of Dollar Store Jack Sparrow, the better. 

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6 minutes ago, Trigger Warning said:

The fact that neither Euron nor any of the Ironborn celebrate killing a god damned dragon is a perfect example of how the world in the show is so lifeless now, they're all just there, standing there going about their business, emotionless plugins on a cgi ship. 

Good point.  I agree, there aren't many human reactions left in the show, people say whatever lines, do whatever actions and exit stage left.

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Why was Jon Snow even resurrected? He has literally not accomplished a single thing since he was brought back from the dead.  Okay, I guess he mined the dragonglass, but otherwise? Nothing.  He had no role in beating the Night King, his ability to ride a dragon had no role in the battle. So, not only is his Targ heritage irrelevant, the fact that he was resurrected is also irrelevant because he's done nothing important.  

I can't understand how anyone doesn't see that the NK resolution robbed Jon's story of all of it's meaning.

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Benioff and Weiss doing something outlandishly crazy with the end of the White Walker storyline - time travel, teleportation, whatever - would have been better than what they did:  nothing.

Addicted Tv fans can put a positive spin on anything - in “something”.  But it is more difficult to defend “nothing” - they just plain abandoned it.

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I look forward to seeing when the actors will be able to freely say what they really think about this season 8 and D&D. The few interviews we can see on reddit or Youtube already say a lot.
This should be a first in the recent history of this industry.

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9 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

I look forward to seeing when the actors will be able to freely say what they really think about this season 8 and D&D. The few interviews we can see on reddit or Youtube already say a lot.
This should be a first in the recent history of this industry.

I think kit already said in an interview that the season was disapointing… And we also have emillia's interviews…

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

Why was Jon Snow even resurrected? He has literally not accomplished a single thing since he was brought back from the dead.  Okay, I guess he mined the dragonglass, but otherwise? Nothing.  He had no role in beating the Night King, his ability to ride a dragon had no role in the battle. So, not only is his Targ heritage irrelevant, the fact that he was resurrected is also irrelevant because he's done nothing important.  

I can't understand how anyone doesn't see that the NK resolution robbed Jon's story of all of it's meaning.

This. And Bran..... all that journey to become a bait that does nothing?

Theon's arc and role in that battle are far more meaningful. At least he gained those crucial seconds.

Edited by lalt

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