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The Fattest Leech

Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

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Welcome to Rant and Rave without Repercussions, the scripts version. Waiting Wading through the seasons...

In the words of King o'the Board,

The topic of the thread is discussing things you dislike about the show, and this thread specifically focuses on the scripts and directors notes in relation to how it effected the show plot past, present, and future (Season 8) .

Discussion of why people disliked something is permitted, but remember the topic at hand: this is not a debate thread, it's a discussion thread specifically about episode details or events that posters disliked. Posts that ignore this will be considered off-topic. It is not a place to throw insults at one another or to act as if the normal rules of the forum do not apply. Likewise, per forum rules about flame wars, PLEASE IGNORE anyone trying to bring this thread down to a close.

Remember, open spoilers for all are being discussed here.

Links:

  1. https://winteriscoming.net/2018/12/06/vanity-fair-finds-easter-eggs-scripts-game-thrones-season-7/
  2. https://winteriscoming.net/2018/12/08/hbo-changed-george-rr-martin-final-game-of-thrones-script/

 

Edited by The Fattest Leech
SPOILERS ALL

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This is a more recent article that really demonstrates the issues with the directing... three day old c!ck cheese is supposed to be the inspiration for an actor when drinking something gross? Not only is this gross literally for the sake of being gross (Oh so edgy!), but it also pushes the prejudice idea that the free folk are gross, uncouth, heathens. GRRM is very careful to undo this "otherness" idea in his books, but the show pushes the agenda. Lame!

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1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said:

Gods be good... I’m afraid to look! :wideeyed:

There have been so darn many weird directors notes that have been released/made public/whatever over the last few months that are just so bizarre. No wonder actors were confused half the time.

That link is not the only source. I am sure I can get more sources and quotes here soon (after I feed the farm :)).

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1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

There have been so darn many weird directors notes that have been released/made public/whatever over the last few months that are just so bizarre. No wonder actors were confused half the time.

That link is not the only source. I am sure I can get more sources and quotes here soon (after I feed the farm :)).

I can't wait!

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Adding this link: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/12/game-of-thrones-scripts-secrets-cersei-pregnancy-tyrion-daenerys-snow-on-the-throne

Script of the god-awful S7. Particularly this makes me gag :ack:

Quote

Love for the Below-the-Line Crew: Weiss and Benioff sprinkled charming little compliments for their longtime collaborators and crew members throughout their Season 7 scripts. Arya is “dressed in some boyish yet fetching Michele Clapton design,” Dany “stands and walks about the glorious set,” the Sand Snakes use “inventive Rowley fight choreography” in their last stand, and the army of the dead wear “horrific Barrie & Sarah Gower designed faces.”

 

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I found those articles interesting, particularly what could be learned from GRRM.

From the GRRM episode clues article:

GRRM gives a potential spoiler for TWOW, direwolves seem like they may play a big role in putting down Ramsay:

[ [N.B. A note for future reference. A season or two down the line Ramsay’s pack of wolfhounds are going to be sent against the Stark direwolves, so we should build up the dogs as much as possible in this and subsequent episodes.]]

GRRM didn't know Sansa's story would be gutted:

Martin has Roose Bolton tell his bastard son: “We have a much better match in mind for you. A match to help House Bolton hold the north. Arya Stark.”

GRRM wanted this in the show, but they cut it (Tyrion can do no wrong on the show):

In the same scene in Martin’s version, Jaime also asks Tyrion to give Sansa back to Brienne so he can fulfill his promise to Catelyn. [Tyrion doesn't keep his promise in the books, and Brienne is appalled when she finds out.]

From the other article (other non-GRRM show scripts):

The sisters fight was real:

The tensions between Arya and Sansa are also very real (until they’re not). When Arya accuses Sansa of trying to placate the Northern lords to ensure they are on her side, the script explains: “Arya is right. She knows it. We know it. Sansa knows it.” Later, Sansa gets genuinely enraged by her sister’s constant accusations: “Now she grows angry, and when Sansa gets angry a steeliness enters her tone.” None of these fights are for Baelish’s benefit.

Why Sansa and Brienne broke up:

Sansa gets ticked off watching her sister and Brienne spar in the courtyard, and worries Brienne might be an ally for her sister should Arya turn on Sansa. “Sansa is not happy about it” the script reads. Furthermore: “This disturbs Sansa; the woman she thought was her dedicated protector is actually a time share.” That’s why Sansa abruptly, and unkindly, sends Brienne away.

Tyrion is in love with Dany:

“He studies her face. [. . .] Dany is staring into the distance so Tyrion is able to watch her from up close. Goddamn but she is beautiful. [. . .] He watches her for a beat too long and turns away. Lost in her own thoughts, she doesn’t notice that he’s flustered,” the script described... “The brother he loves races towards his probably death at the hands of the queen Tyrion also loves,” as detailed in the script.

Hints that Tyrion may be killed by a dragon:

Of course, love isn’t the only emotion Tyrion feels for Daenerys. There’s also a healthy dose of fear there, especially as Daenerys burns Randyll and Dickon Tarly alive in “Eastwatch.” Inside Tyrion’s thoughts, the script links Daenerys to her pyromaniac dad, King Aerys Targaryen: “Their last, best hope is also her father’s daughter.”

and from the GRRM script article:

“Balerion, Vhagar, and Meraxes, are GIGANTIC, large enough to swallow Tyrion and Varys both in a single gulp, and still have room for an elephant or two”

Edited by Le Cygne

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The Rant is ON!!  Good job, I still have to read up on the posts, though.  I guess that's what I get for disappearing for a bit, eh?

So, in the meantime, small scale, but serious RANT:  Has HBO given us an actual DATE yet?  Not month, but DATE?  I'm gonna guess......STILL NO?  :dunno:

Maybe that will come when one of these new promos actually have some new friggin footage to go with them?  Maybe? 

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And we're back! 

About the above quotes from the scripts - when the writers are directly referring to their costume designers and choreographers by name in the script it makes for the clearest indication I've seen that they are genuinely phoning it in. 

Also, I have question for all of you - was anyone less annoyed by season 7 than by 5 and 6? I don't mean season 7 is any good, because it's really, really not, but did anyone else think it somehow mattered less? Some parts were so goofy I was laughing. 

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On 12/14/2018 at 10:30 PM, TheCasualObserver said:

And we're back! 

About the above quotes from the scripts - when the writers are directly referring to their costume designers and choreographers by name in the script it makes for the clearest indication I've seen that they are genuinely phoning it in. 

Also, I have question for all of you - was anyone less annoyed by season 7 than by 5 and 6? I don't mean season 7 is any good, because it's really, really not, but did anyone else think it somehow mattered less? Some parts were so goofy I was laughing. 

Their 'script notes' are cringe worthy.  I think they've moved beyond just phoning it in to giving the one fingered salute while they do said phoning.  I find it beyond childish. 

And, I totally understand what you are saying about being less annoyed with season 7.  I think the reasons for that are multiple.  For me, one reason is that I'd come to terms with how terrible some it is, LOL  Another reason might be that it was only 7 episodes so in some ways.........less to get upset about.  I STILL laugh to myself every time I think of the words:  Run to Eastwatch.  That might never not be funny. :lmao:

Edited by Lady Fevre Dream

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On 12/14/2018 at 10:30 PM, TheCasualObserver said:

And we're back! 

About the above quotes from the scripts - when the writers are directly referring to their costume designers and choreographers by name in the script it makes for the clearest indication I've seen that they are genuinely phoning it in. 

Also, I have question for all of you - was anyone less annoyed by season 7 than by 5 and 6? I don't mean season 7 is any good, because it's really, really not, but did anyone else think it somehow mattered less? Some parts were so goofy I was laughing. 

I think I know what you mean. Season 7 was filler. Not nearly as much of it was beyond ADWD as various articles were claiming. There was some info from the released TWOW chapters, but there was also stuff going on from the ends of AFFC/ADWD.

I mean, Dany landing on Dragonstone and then Jon meeting her there was somewhat of a replacement for the Arrianne in the Rainwoods, crawling under the hills/mountain to find the cave drawings as she is supposed to be seeking Aegon out. Jon was also doing double duty as Rolland Storm and his task set by Stannis to dig out the dragon glass under Dragonstone. Dany in the show also played the Aegon part for a while, just not on Storm's End/Griffin's Roost because those places don not exist in the show universe. (I think there was 1 mention of Storm's End by Renly in passing back in S1 or S2?). And Dany in her ready-made white coat and braid, ready to skip like a stone north... goofy :rolleyes:

Really it was boring filler to waste time until the Shocks! made their way to screen. I am trying to catch up here by adding the other script sources, but so far we can see that there were many, many times that what we saw on screen did not match up to GRRM or even what was planned for the screen in the first place.

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And here is a bit that I mentioned elsewhere, but it still really is a drag to read of character assassination like this. In the books, Davos wants (almost) nothing more than to get back to his wife and young children and live peacefully. But the show turns him in to a creepy old man leering goon:

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Adding a few links to the main post for ease. If you have any you would like me to add, just give the word... and the link. I will need that, too. :D

https://winteriscoming.net/2018/12/06/vanity-fair-finds-easter-eggs-scripts-game-thrones-season-7/

and

https://winteriscoming.net/2018/12/08/hbo-changed-george-rr-martin-final-game-of-thrones-script/

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Aside from playing Plotzee! with Daenerys and Jon's arc, and Sansa's drastic deviations, I truly believe the biggest travesty in the story telling element that never made sense to me was the entire season where they cut out Bran.

Bran. The up and coming greenseer of the series. The one who will now hold the secrets to save humanity. Bran was cut in order to prolong the show "Night King" plot, and to draw out the incest between Jon and Dany on the show. If Bran has his training done on-screen, he would have seen the (show) truth much too early for the network's liking, spoiling way too soon the Shock! tensions. So, off with his head, until they screw it back on sideways and turn Bran into a numb weirdo.

This was Martin's intent for the show, and all of it was cut. Not perfectly like the books, which is totally expected for a show iteration, but much closer to the heart of the series, and especially Bran's purpose in the series:

Images flash by, one after another; distant places and different times, familiar faces and faces of strangers.

Ned Stark cleans Ice beneath Winterfell’s heart tree (from the original pilot).

The Mad Kings Aerys Targaryen a gaunt man with silver-gold hair and foot-long fingernails, CACKLES as he watches Ned’s father and brother burn.

Jon Snow with Ghost. Unawares.

Two children, a boy and a girl, fight with wooden swords in Winterfell’s godswood. (Benjen and Lyanna as kids).

Robb sits drenched in blood amidst the carnage of the Red Wedding, surrounded by the dead. His dead face slowly transforms into Grey Wind’s wolfish features.

Jaime and Cersei embrace in Winterfell’s old keep (the last thing Bran saw before he fell, from the pilot).

A black direwolf with green eyes (SHAGGYDOG) looks up suddenly from a bloody kill, as if he sense Bran.

Hints of strange small children with very dark eyes.

The shadow of a dragon passes across the rooftops of a great city (King’s Landing, where Bran has never been).

Arya with Needle in hand. Her face MELTS and CHANGES.

The visions end with a distinctive quartet of northern hills (per Chris Newman’s location photograph), serving as the backdrop to the LARGEST WEIRWOOD we’ve ever seen.

 

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18 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

And here is a bit that I mentioned elsewhere, but it still really is a drag to read of character assassination like this. In the books, Davos wants (almost) nothing more than to get back to his wife and young children and live peacefully. But the show turns him in to a creepy old man leering goon:

It's a good thing it`s not the books, else this would be awkward child abuse with Missandei being younger than Devan. 

... I ... sometimes ... Devan is the fifth son of Davos and still older ...

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On 12/18/2018 at 12:29 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

Aside from playing Plotzee! with Daenerys and Jon's arc, and Sansa's drastic deviations, I truly believe the biggest travesty in the story telling element that never made sense to me was the entire season where they cut out Bran.

Bran. The up and coming greenseer of the series. The one who will now hold the secrets to save humanity. Bran was cut in order to prolong the show "Night King" plot, and to draw out the incest between Jon and Dany on the show. If Bran has his training done on-screen, he would have seen the (show) truth much too early for the network's liking, spoiling way too soon the Shock! tensions. So, off with his head, until they screw it back on sideways and turn Bran into a numb weirdo.

This was Martin's intent for the show, and all of it was cut. Not perfectly like the books, which is totally expected for a show iteration, but much closer to the heart of the series, and especially Bran's purpose in the series:

Images flash by, one after another; distant places and different times, familiar faces and faces of strangers.

Ned Stark cleans Ice beneath Winterfell’s heart tree (from the original pilot).

The Mad Kings Aerys Targaryen a gaunt man with silver-gold hair and foot-long fingernails, CACKLES as he watches Ned’s father and brother burn.

Jon Snow with Ghost. Unawares.

Two children, a boy and a girl, fight with wooden swords in Winterfell’s godswood. (Benjen and Lyanna as kids).

Robb sits drenched in blood amidst the carnage of the Red Wedding, surrounded by the dead. His dead face slowly transforms into Grey Wind’s wolfish features.

Jaime and Cersei embrace in Winterfell’s old keep (the last thing Bran saw before he fell, from the pilot).

A black direwolf with green eyes (SHAGGYDOG) looks up suddenly from a bloody kill, as if he sense Bran.

Hints of strange small children with very dark eyes.

The shadow of a dragon passes across the rooftops of a great city (King’s Landing, where Bran has never been).

Arya with Needle in hand. Her face MELTS and CHANGES.

The visions end with a distinctive quartet of northern hills (per Chris Newman’s location photograph), serving as the backdrop to the LARGEST WEIRWOOD we’ve ever seen.

 

The absence of bran in season 5 makes less and less sense in hindsight. A lot of people have said that him becoming an emotionally dead robot was jarring, especially since he was fine in season 6. If at least some of his season 6 plot was moved to 5 and we see his slide into inhumanity throughout season 6 it really could have helped sell the idea that his powers came at a cost.

Then again, Bloodraven never seemed particularly emotionally dead, despite having lots more power and knowledge than Bran, so it may never have made sense. 

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On 12/19/2018 at 3:32 PM, TheCasualObserver said:

The absence of bran in season 5 makes less and less sense in hindsight. A lot of people have said that him becoming an emotionally dead robot was jarring, especially since he was fine in season 6. If at least some of his season 6 plot was moved to 5 and we see his slide into inhumanity throughout season 6 it really could have helped sell the idea that his powers came at a cost.

Then again, Bloodraven never seemed particularly emotionally dead, despite having lots more power and knowledge than Bran, so it may never have made sense. 

Bloodraven had a lot more time time to accumulate his knowledge than Bran did. Bran's condition is most likely the result of the huge download after BR's death. 

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Same bat crew, same bat channel. To expect anything other than, “it will be bad” (to put it mildly) would be insane. 

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