Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[SeanF]

1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

After multiple signs from friends and family and direct evidence that Dany is bad news, I probably would have realized that I was hitching my wagons to someone who is a greater threat to innocents and my family than Cersei. 

But Jon seems to only care that incest is icky.

It wouldn't have been so bad if D&D had written about the effects of Jon's resurrection, perhaps making him less perceptive. But we got nothing. He's just becoming increasingly stupider for unexplained reasons like every other man that comes into contact with Dany. 

I don't think Cersei would be nice towards the family who wants the North to be independent and who she thinks murdered Joffrey.  Do you?

I don't think that Cersei is the sort of person to let bygones be bygones.   

So, yes, if it's Kings Landing, (and in reality, all the talk at this stage, was about Daenerys hitting the Red Keep, and the only evidence of her tyranny at this point was looking upset at a party) vs my family, my family wins out every time.

[A Ghost of Someone]

4 hours ago, Darryk said:

 

[A Ghost of Someone]

Duplicate

[A Ghost of Someone]

The show did a rapid, crazy turn with Danny’s personality. What made it even more sickening was at the same time, they were trying to make Cersei just wanting her incest baby to live.

  D&D&C are awful story-tellers.  They botched it and it probably is the reason they are no longer in The Star Wars gig.

[Angel Eyes]

2 hours ago, SeanF said:

I don't think Cersei would be nice towards the family who wants the North to be independent and who she thinks murdered Joffrey.  Do you?

I don't think that Cersei is the sort of person to let bygones be bygones.   

So, yes, if it's Kings Landing, (and in reality, all the talk at this stage, was about Daenerys hitting the Red Keep, and the only evidence of her tyranny at this point was looking upset at a party) vs my family, my family wins out every time.

I'm surprised Cersei never ordered attempts on Jon or Sansa's lives.

[Rose of Red Lake]

2 hours ago, SeanF said:

I don't think Cersei would be nice towards the family who wants the North to be independent and who she thinks murdered Joffrey.  Do you?

I don't think that Cersei is the sort of person to let bygones be bygones.   

So, yes, if it's Kings Landing, (and in reality, all the talk at this stage, was about Daenerys hitting the Red Keep, and the only evidence of her tyranny at this point was looking upset at a party) vs my family, my family wins out every time.

There are so many clues for Darth Dany, there should be a thread. I'll start one eventually. But I'm still going to complain about how stupidly they wrote Jon, and completely ignored everything about his POV. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Rose of Red Lake

[Nowy Tends]

21 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

There are so many clues for Darth Dany, there should be a thread. I'll start one eventually. 

This point was discussed ad nauseam right here a few months ago. Anyway, what is the point of debating a story that makes no sense, with characters that no longer have any substance? I don't get it.

[Rose of Red Lake]

41 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

This point was discussed ad nauseam right here a few months ago. Anyway, what is the point of debating a story that makes no sense, with characters that no longer have any substance? I don't get it.

The same prophecies have been discussed ad nauseum for the last 20 years without any new info, but talking about the ending, which contained new info on the ending, is pointless? I dont get that either. But carry on.

[Stubby]

[MOD]

This is not a thread for debating stuff.  Further debating will be deleted and participants warned.

[/MOD]

[SeanF]

On 11/21/2019 at 12:30 AM, kissdbyfire said:

Here the go-to word for GoT at this point: YIKES.

I do wonder if D & D planned to have Dany being raped by the Dothraki, when they captured her in the wilderness (as opposed to being whipped and threatened with rape) but the backlash over Sansa stayed their hand.

[Le Cygne]

8 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I do wonder if D & D planned to have Dany being raped by the Dothraki, when they captured her in the wilderness (as opposed to being whipped and threatened with rape) but the backlash over Sansa stayed their hand.

I think so. They said very ominous things in the outside the episode, like they were setting it up. What they did was so different from the books, as usual. She's found her strength, and is standing beside her dragon, in that moment in the books. In the show, they bent over backwards to incapacitate him and isolate her.

[Le Cygne]

16 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

The show did a rapid, crazy turn with Danny’s personality. What made it even more sickening was at the same time, they were trying to make Cersei just wanting her incest baby to live.

  D&D&C are awful story-tellers.  They botched it and it probably is the reason they are no longer in The Star Wars gig.

Agreed. They dehumanized Dany while humanizing Cersei. In the end, they said Cersei was "just a girl who needs the comfort of a man." A broken clock is right twice a day, but they never are.

Also agree with your other assertions. The director Marshall says it was an "exec producer" who wanted female full frontal nudity. Benioff and Weiss are the executive producers who ran the show:

"A showrunner is the leading producer of a television series. In the United States, they are credited as an executive producer... A showrunner has creative and management responsibility of a television series production through combining the responsibilities of employer, and in comedy or dramas, typically also character creator, head writer, and script editor. In films, the director has creative control of a production, but in television, the showrunner outranks the episodic directors."

Edited November 22, 2019 by Le Cygne

[SeanF]

3 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

I think so. They said very ominous things in the outside the episode, like they were setting it up. What they did was so different from the books, as usual. She's found her strength, and is standing beside her dragon, in that moment in the books. In the show, they bent over backwards to incapacitate him and isolate her.

Hideous though it is, Daenerys would very likely have been raped in the situation that the show placed her in.  As you say, the dynamics in the book are quite different.  Fifty Dothraki v Dany and Drogon is a Mexican standoff.

[kissdbyfire]

5 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

"just a girl who needs the comfort of a man."

Right. Not “a woman who needs the comfort of a man”. I could even go w/ “a girl who needs the comfort of a boy”. But nope, she’s a girl, and needs a man. Every little thing they say is telling, and none of it is good. 

5 hours ago, SeanF said:

I do wonder if D & D planned to have Dany being raped by the Dothraki, when they captured her in the wilderness (as opposed to being whipped and threatened with rape) but the backlash over Sansa stayed their hand.

But wouldn’t that be listening to critics or taking in input from viewers? They don’t do that, according to their own words. So, that makes me wonder. Maybe they thought the “OMFG SO SHOCKING” of turning Dany into the love child of Hitler and Satan would be lessened if she’d gone through some horrific fanfic ordeal? 

Edited November 22, 2019 by kissdbyfire

[SeanF]

6 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

 

But wouldn’t that be listening to critics or taking in input from viewers? They don’t do that, according to their own words. So, that makes me wonder. Maybe hey thought the “OMFG SO SHOCKING” of turning Dany into the love child of Hitler and Satan would be lessened if she’d gone through some horrific fanfic ordeal? 

Despite what they claim, I'm not at all convinced that the decision to vilify Daenerys was taken until after Season 7.

It just so flies in the face of everything they were saying.  "She's the good Targaryen, a heroine" and all of the suggestions that she and Jon would have a child together.

I can entirely accept that if and when we get the books, Daenerys, a sympathetic protagonist, will come into conflict with other sympathetic protagonists, because they have conflicting political aims.  But, that does not require the vilification of either protagonist. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by SeanF

[Ser Drewy]

So I decided to finish something I began writing months ago (the final season caused a long, long period of GOT-related disinterest in me): https://medium.com/@alpenglowmemory/game-of-thrones-and-the-short-life-of-shock-value-c38c9379ffe8?sk=a71d34bb96721185e29f59a52a6ef034 

[SeanF]

23 minutes ago, Ser Drewy said:

So I decided to finish something I began writing months ago (the final season caused a long, long period of GOT-related disinterest in me): https://medium.com/@alpenglowmemory/game-of-thrones-and-the-short-life-of-shock-value-c38c9379ffe8?sk=a71d34bb96721185e29f59a52a6ef034 

Spot on.  The reputation of this series will just keep going down and down.

Edited November 22, 2019 by SeanF

[Prince of the North]

39 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Despite what they claim, I'm not at all convinced that the decision to vilify Daenerys was taken until after Season 7.

It just so flies in the face of everything they were saying.  "She's the good Targaryen, a heroine" and all of the suggestions that she and Jon would have a child together.

I can entirely accept that if and when we get the books, Daenerys, a sympathetic protagonist, will come into conflict with other sympathetic protagonists, because they have conflicting political aims.  But, that does not require the vilification of either protagonist. 

Yep!  They've always lied so incredibly hard about "having a plan" and "planned this from the beginning".  Nonsense  It's completely obvious there was virtually no plan after they got to bring their version of the Red Wedding to the small screen.  As my proof I would just submit that, if they'd had much of a plan at all, there would have been some small amount of coherence - there wasn't.  And, of course, there's all the furious ret-conning they always did in their outside the episode ridiculousness

[divica]

36 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Despite what they claim, I'm not at all convinced that the decision to vilify Daenerys was taken until after Season 7.

It just so flies in the face of everything they were saying.  "She's the good Targaryen, a heroine" and all of the suggestions that she and Jon would have a child together.

I can entirely accept that if and when we get the books, Daenerys, a sympathetic protagonist, will come into conflict with other sympathetic protagonists, because they have conflicting political aims.  But, that does not require the vilification of either protagonist. 

I talked about this a lot. Season 7 and 8 just don t fit together. I have no idea what happened but the story completly changed where it was going after s7 and nobody well ever know why… And as I have said several times it really bothers me that grrm says that the series and ending is somewhat fateful to the books. I just don t see how that is possible and much less in 2 books.

6 hours ago, SeanF said:

I do wonder if D & D planned to have Dany being raped by the Dothraki, when they captured her in the wilderness (as opposed to being whipped and threatened with rape) but the backlash over Sansa stayed their hand.

 

47 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

But wouldn’t that be listening to critics or taking in input from viewers? They don’t do that, according to their own words. So, that makes me wonder. Maybe they thought the “OMFG SO SHOCKING” of turning Dany into the love child of Hitler and Satan would be lessened if she’d gone through some horrific fanfic ordeal? 

I think it was pretty clear that the reaction to sansa's rape influenced them and it was one of the things that led to ruining the show. They stopped doing cruel things to women. Yara is the best treated prisoner ever for no reason. Danny is also pretty well treated by the dothriaki ( the guys that rape and enslave people). Sansa became the most rewarded character in the show for reasons. Arya is Wolverine and westeros super hero… At one point women even ruled nearly every place…. IT is just too much...

32 minutes ago, Ser Drewy said:

So I decided to finish something I began writing months ago (the final season caused a long, long period of GOT-related disinterest in me): https://medium.com/@alpenglowmemory/game-of-thrones-and-the-short-life-of-shock-value-c38c9379ffe8?sk=a71d34bb96721185e29f59a52a6ef034 

I agree with some of the parts you wrote, disagree with others and some I didn t even read because it is a huge text. Over all I agree with the idea. D&D (and star wars) quit doing a project with a coeherent story in order to do something with shock value.  Even if the first time people see it they have a reaction and are interested it doesn t create something that is re watchable. A series or film doesn t create a fandom that watches it several times along the years because of shock values. It needs a good a coeherent story that people like to see over and over. For exemple, the lotr movies have almost zero shock value but everybody has watched the movies 20 times  and they generated one of the bigest fandoms in recent history.

[Le Cygne]

6 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Right. Not “a woman who needs the comfort of a man”. I could even go w/ “a girl who needs the comfort of a boy”. But nope, she’s a girl, and needs a man. Every little thing they say is telling, and none of it is good.

Yeah, all the lines they made up like "don't be a girl" and "most girls are stupid" and a "bad pussy" is better than a "good girl" and if you are a "stupid girl" they'll take your story away... and a "bloody woman" equates to a coward and then in the end a woman is "just a girl" who needs a man... What's very telling is that girls scare the hell out of them.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Le Cygne