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Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!


The Fattest Leech

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7 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

I thought Sansa in Season 5 was supposed to be 17, since (at least on the wiki for the show) each season encompasses a single year.

Not possible. Aside from the fact that you can charter the passage of time by the growth of Gilly's baby. Little Sam did not grow at all for 3 Seasons and even by S8 seemed to still be a toddler. But they kept the ages the same as the book except change the starting point. Sansa was 11 when the story started and 12 when she married Tyrion in the books. In the show she was 13 at the start and 14 when she married Tyrion. So between the Pilot and the end of S3 it's been less than 2 years. The Ramsey story replaced the Vale arc and there Sansa is still 13 about to turn 14, so she would be 15 at most in S5.

19 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Maybe she was supposed to be 16? The reason why I ask is because in the UK, it's against the law to depict a sex scene involving a minor, even if the actor is a legal adult. (If I remember correctly, there was a scene in the series premiere where they mentioned that Dany was sixteen). Maisie still looks like a teenager, so they probably sent out that tweet ahead of time to avoid inquiries.

Then don't depict it. Cut away like they did with Sansa's rape. They should have cut away when Arya and Gendry kissed. And they clearly went with the US age of consent, not the UK one. And that's the unbelievable part because there is no way Arya was 18. 16 would be stretching it but I can go with that. If Sansa was 15 in S5 that would have made Arya 13, add 3 years and she is 16 in S8.

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1 hour ago, Mystical said:

Not possible. Aside from the fact that you can charter the passage of time by the growth of Gilly's baby. Little Sam did not grow at all for 3 Seasons and even by S8 seemed to still be a toddler. But they kept the ages the same as the book except change the starting point. Sansa was 11 when the story started and 12 when she married Tyrion in the books. In the show she was 13 at the start and 14 when she married Tyrion. So between the Pilot and the end of S3 it's been less than 2 years. The Ramsey story replaced the Vale arc and there Sansa is still 13 about to turn 14, so she would be 15 at most in S5.

Then don't depict it. Cut away like they did with Sansa's rape. They should have cut away when Arya and Gendry kissed. And they clearly went with the US age of consent, not the UK one. And that's the unbelievable part because there is no way Arya was 18. 16 would be stretching it but I can go with that. If Sansa was 15 in S5 that would have made Arya 13, add 3 years and she is 16 in S8.

I see what you mean, but if I remember correctly, you can legally depict an underage sex scene in the US as long as the actors are of age.

But they probably did go with 18 so they wouldn't get accused of sexualizing a kid. Of course, sex on GOT has always felt exploitative, no matter how old the characters are.

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4 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Quick question for anyone who follows book to show Plotzee! The world famous game of chopping up the books, scrambling them in a blender, then rearranging the pieces to create something... more brokener :dunno:

What do you think are the chances that the letter Jon wrote in AFFC/ADWD to Cersei in King's Landing asking for help with the common foe (the Others), that was then discussed by Cersei in her AFFC 4 chapter where she ignores his pleas and instead conspires to kill him was remade into the wight hunt idea? Is it possible this was a D&D Plotzee! rework for that 'wight in a box", err, event? I was just discussing this scene elsewhere on the forum when this possibility inhabited my brain. I am kind of thinking it is a "rework" and that it adds to the mounting list of reasons we won't see a wight hunt in the books.

A Feast for Crows - Cersei IV

Cersei gave him a sharp look. "What are you saying?"

"This," Qyburn said. "For years now, the Night's Watch has begged for men. Lord Stannis has answered their plea. Can King Tommen do less? His Grace should send the Wall a hundred men. To take the black, ostensibly, but in truth . . ."

". . . to remove Jon Snow from the command," Cersei finished, delighted. I knew I was right to want him on my council. "That is just what we shall do." She laughed. If this bastard boy is truly his father's son, he will not suspect a thing. Perhaps he will even thank me, before the blade slides between his ribs. "It will need to be done carefully, to be sure. Leave the rest to me, my lords." This was how an enemy should be dealt with: with a dagger, not a declaration. "We have done good work today, my lords. I thank you. Is there aught else?"

It's clear they did Plotzee (great name for it, BTW).

Cogman said he gave them a summary of the books each season. (Of course, he has biases and things he doesn't care about, so no doubt a lot was left out.)

Plus GRRM gave them TWOW stuff, as well as broad strokes of some things beyond that. They are too lazy to come up with ideas of their own.

It's easy to spot the shiny objects that caught their eye. And they then proceeded to cannibalize characters and plots, perverting them to their liking.

Like they had Sansa say Jeyne's lines from TWOW in season 8. They continued to justify themselves, right to the end. And they made her thank them.

Book Cersei was only really on the show in Blackwater. Even there, they inserted their own stupid scene. So they wasted what they were given, yet again.

So yes, that letter does sound like something they grabbed onto and used to launch their incomprehensible, meaningless, bizarrely stupid fanfic.

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On 4/10/2020 at 6:43 PM, kissdbyfire said:

We did, the old long time ranters... we saw this catastrophe coming a looooong ways off. And we constantly had the show fans pop in here to tell us all how wrong we were. :lol:

Some were brave enough and honest enough to pop in again after series 8 to say, “I was so wrong, and you guys were right all along”. But only, like, 2? The rest simply dropped off the face of the earth apparently. :smug:

Indeed.

Here's the thread topic, this is what it's always been, and we've had a lot of fun:

On 12/12/2018 at 5:22 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

In the words of King o'the Board,

The topic of the thread is discussing things you dislike about the show...

Discussion of why people disliked something is permitted, but remember the topic at hand: this is not a debate thread, it's a discussion thread specifically about episode details or events that posters disliked. Posts that ignore this will be considered off-topic. It is not a place to throw insults at one another or to act as if the normal rules of the forum do not apply. Likewise, per forum rules about flame wars, PLEASE IGNORE anyone trying to bring this thread down to a close. 

I think what I dislike in a nutshell is the writing is atrocious. They couldn't write their way out of a paper bag.

They have nasty attitudes toward women, they lack basic empathy for humanity, they were disrespectful of the source.

Ultimately, they couldn't write. They are hacks, and then in then end, they said flat out, they are hacks.

It was an exercise in privilege, good ole boys who spewed nastiness into the world, then took the money and ran.

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6 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Quick question for anyone who follows book to show Plotzee! The world famous game of chopping up the books, scrambling them in a blender, then rearranging the pieces to create something... more brokener :dunno:

What do you think are the chances that the letter Jon wrote in AFFC/ADWD to Cersei in King's Landing asking for help with the common foe (the Others), that was then discussed by Cersei in her AFFC 4 chapter where she ignores his pleas and instead conspires to kill him was remade into the wight hunt idea? Is it possible this was a D&D Plotzee! rework for that 'wight in a box", err, event? I was just discussing this scene elsewhere on the forum when this possibility inhabited my brain. I am kind of thinking it is a "rework" and that it adds to the mounting list of reasons we won't see a wight hunt in the books.

A Feast for Crows - Cersei IV

Cersei gave him a sharp look. "What are you saying?"

"This," Qyburn said. "For years now, the Night's Watch has begged for men. Lord Stannis has answered their plea. Can King Tommen do less? His Grace should send the Wall a hundred men. To take the black, ostensibly, but in truth . . ."

". . . to remove Jon Snow from the command," Cersei finished, delighted. I knew I was right to want him on my council. "That is just what we shall do." She laughed. If this bastard boy is truly his father's son, he will not suspect a thing. Perhaps he will even thank me, before the blade slides between his ribs. "It will need to be done carefully, to be sure. Leave the rest to me, my lords." This was how an enemy should be dealt with: with a dagger, not a declaration. "We have done good work today, my lords. I thank you. Is there aught else?"

Oh my. It hurts thinking it could have been possible. But the more I think about it the more it makes sense... THEY DID THAT!

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On 4/10/2020 at 11:23 PM, Le Cygne said:

The actors were completely confused. They had no clue what they were doing or why.

Most of the actors said they were disappointed: Emilia, Kit, Lena... NCW said when he asked about character motivation, they told him just shut up and do it.

Here are some of the experienced actors (I'll add more as I find them):

Stephen Dillane:

I’ve flicked it on to see if I could figure out what was going on, but I couldn’t. Liam Cunningham is so passionate about the show. He invests in it in a way I think is quite moving, but it wasn’t my experience. I was entirely dependent on Liam to tell me what the scenes were about — I didn’t know what I was doing until we’d finished filming and it was too late. The damage had been done. I thought no one would believe in me and I was rather disheartened by the end. I felt I’d built the castle on non-existent foundations.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stephen-dillane-its-better-not-working-in-westeros-nkb9qj3tr

Another Stephen Dillane:

Unwilling to evoke the subject ("are we obliged to talk about it?"), he never participated in the juggernaut promotional tours. Why is that? "Not interested," he retorts, annoyed... He confides, elusive: " I don't regret having made Game of Thrones but I have nothing to say about it. I did not understand the series or its success when I participated. The experience was very bizarre, it passed under my nose. For a role to please me, I have to be able to take an interest in it, which was not really the case. I was a little overwhelmed by events."

https://next.liberation.fr/images/2016/03/13/stephen-dillane-a-la-gauche-du-trone_1439355

Alexander Siddig:

It’s funny, I’m not really sure what happened there... “So we were going to kill you off at the end of last season, but we decided that we’re going to have to kill you off at the beginning of next season.” I was like, “Okay, life goes on.” But there was something wrong about that because I had been contracted for four episodes in the following season, so if they were going to kill me off at the end of the last season why would they contract me for those four episodes? Because it costs them money whether I do them or not, so it’s not great business sense to do it just in case.

So something happened; I have no idea what. There was an enormous amount of fan excitement when I got named to be on the show, and everyone was like, “Oh my god, yes, Doran Martell. He’s going to be great as Doran Martell.” That might have been the kiss of death. Maybe they didn’t want quite that much attention on that character. Maybe they thought, “Well, let’s prove that we’re going to stray from the books. We’re going to do something else, and he will be our first example of that.” So maybe that could have been the case. Or maybe I just screwed up. Maybe I said the wrong thing to the wrong person.

https://www.startrek.com/article/catching-up-with-alexander-siddig-part-1

Charles Dance:

I was confused. I have watched as much as I can because, you know, characters like Daenerys, her character, my character didn't meet... so I wanted to know what was happening to these characters.

We come to the big last series, we got to the very end and I thought, Hmm, OK. There's little Arya she's going off on a cruise somewhere, poor Jon's gone back up north beyond the wall, and then there is Tyrion.

And all the people left alive all sat around the table going, 'So well, what are we going to do now, shall we have a cup of tea or something?' And I thought, Ahh, I don’t know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmWMRan_V1M

Yeah the other day Pilou Asbæk on his instagram made some statement understanding fans' reactions on s8 and...it tells a lot they are doing that after the show has finished.

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5 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

It's clear they did Plotzee (great name for it, BTW).

Cogman said he gave them a summary of the books each season. (Of course, he has biases and things he doesn't care about, so no doubt a lot was left out.)

Plus GRRM gave them TWOW stuff, as well as broad strokes of some things beyond that. They are too lazy to come up with ideas of their own.

It's easy to spot the shiny objects that caught their eye. And they then proceeded to cannibalize characters and plots, perverting them to their liking.

Like they had Sansa say Jeyne's lines from TWOW in season 8. They continued to justify themselves, right to the end. And they made her thank them.

Book Cersei was only really on the show in Blackwater. Even there, they inserted their own stupid scene. So they wasted what they were given, yet again.

So yes, that letter does sound like something they grabbed onto and used to launch their incomprehensible, meaningless, bizarrely stupid fanfic.

 There's lots of bad stuff, of course, but I've read fanfics that are far better written and more respectful of the source material than the stuff that D & D gave us in the end.

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More interviews:

Nikolaj Coster-Waldau:

I got into all these arguments and fights with the writers. And they are like yeah, we hear you and we respect you but we don't care.

Fuck, you are an actor, just say the words...

We've gone through these song and dance routines every season since season 4 where I come back and I go this doesn't make sense, I don't know how to do this, how do I do this.

https://youtu.be/EIN_04N1AHQ?t=481

Lena Headey:

"I invested as a viewer and I have my favourite characters. And I’ve got a few of my own gripes. But I haven’t sat down drunkly with David and Dan yet."

What will she say when she has that drink?

“I will say I wanted a better death.”

In the penultimate episode Cersei was crushed by falling masonry along with her brother-lover Jaime (Nikolaj Coster-Waldau). It was an underwhelming end, to put it politely.

"Obviously you dream of your death," she says. "You could go in any way on that show. So I was kind of gutted."

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/jun/16/lena-headey-cersei-death-game-of-thrones-the-flood-interview

Ian McShane:

He is also about to appear in Game of Thrones. In his cavalier way the other day, he lit up the internet by letting slip that his character, a priest, brings back a popular character who was thought to have died in an earlier episode.

“You say the slightest thing and the internet goes ape,” he says. “I was accused of giving the plot away, but I just think get a fucking life. It’s only tits and dragons.

"They asked me if I wanted to do Game of Thrones and I said, 'Sure, I’ll be able to see my old pals Charlie Dance and Stephen Dillane’ and they said, 'No, we’ve killed them off.’ I wasn’t sure whether I could commit, but then they said it would only be for one episode, so I said, 'So that means I must die at the end of it. Great, I’m in.’ ” (And with that, he gives away another plot twist.)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2016/03/11/ian-mcshane-game-of-thrones-is-just-tits-and-dragons/

Ian McElhinney:

"Truthfully, miffed," McElhinney told an audience at London's Comic Con last week, after being asked how he felt about the change. "But I knew before I even saw the script because I got the schedule. Unfortunately I'd read the books, so I had expectations for season five.

"As soon as I got the schedule I thought, 'There's something not here', because I thought I'd be doing more scenes. In fact I was doing less. So immediately I thought, 'They must be writing me out'."

To add insult to injury (and brutal on-screen death), the team behind the show gave McElhinney no warning about what was in store.

"If I'm honest, I was a bit disappointed by that. I felt I should have known, it wouldn't have made any difference but I felt that as a matter of just courtesy, I should have known,” he said.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/game-of-thrones/11963181/Game-of-Thrones-Barristan-Selmy-actor-disappointed-by-his-characters-death.html

Mark Stanley, on how they didn't bother to tell him they killed Grenn off:

I opened the script for episode 9 and started to read this epic battle sequence that lasts an hour... then I get to page 92, there's this scream of the night's watch oath going into battle and there's the gate in front of me, and I skip 10 pages, and I just see Grenn is dead, and I went, you fucking bastards.

https://youtu.be/7WJ6LNYVYj8?t=794

Thomas Brodie-Sangster, ditto for his character:

I found out on the plane flying over to film Season 4. It happens in the last episode, so I was reading all the scripts and I got to the page where it says, 'Jojen gets stabbed repeatedly in the stomach.' I thought, That's OK. I'll be fine because no one's told me yet and I'm not dead in the books. I'll be fine.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jarettwieselman/this-is-what-it-feels-like-to-be-killed-off-game-of-thrones

Natalia Tena, on the gratuitous female nudity on the show, then they killed her off:

There’s that in everything in the world. I think it’s really unfair, every actor, any actress has had her tits out. Every single actress I know. Blokes it’s like, let’s see some cock. Do you know what I mean? Let’s make it more even.

https://www.hypable.com/game-of-thrones-star-natalia-tena-talks-nudity-and-future-books/

Another Natalia Tena:

The calibre of writing towards the end and the plots and everything that happens and how they wrapped it up compared to any other season, any other bit, it just feels like it's been written by different people. It doesn't make sense, for me...

I was a few glasses of wine in when I watched it. I'd binge-watched the whole thing, but I ended up... my boyfriend had to leave the boat because I was ranting for an hour at him about how much I didn't like it. And then I rang my friend to rant to him... I don't understand why they made those choices.

https://play.acast.com/s/wwqt/7fc94960-3bd2-4008-9bc7-c9eef0f38ba0

Joe Dempsey, asked about character development:

Joe Dempsey: That was totally what season 7 was about [Sarcastic]. Character development? [Laughs and waves hand away] I really need to shut up.

Jacob Anderson: You're brave. Joe is not going to be in Star Wars. Stop!

https://youtu.be/O6irWKgpeyU?t=1203

Daniel Portman:

I think they could have taken more time, it was a little bit rushed, and I feel like the fans maybe deserved more than they got.

https://twitter.com/WesterosSA/status/1195359328171102208

Emilia Clarke:

And then, oops! Daenerys, thrilled at almost achieving her goal of ruling the Seven Kingdoms, lost the plot... She was then abruptly bumped off by her lover-cum-nephew Jon Snow, and  a worldwide fanbase stopped and went: what?...

Eventually the tornado of diplomacy peters out. "Yeah, I felt for her. I really felt for her. And yeah, I was annoyed that Jon Snow didn't have to deal with something?" She lets out an exasperated laugh. "He got away with murder - literally."

She also eventually agrees with the critique that the final season condensed far too much in far too little time ("We could have spun it out for a little longer") and that it could simply have had more dialogue. "It was all about the set pieces," she agrees.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/emilia-clarke-interview-the-game-of-thrones-star-on-leaving-behind-westeros-to-tackle-the-west-end-ht5sgctz8

Another, Tom Wlaschiha:

If the Faceless Men want Arya in Westeros, what's your sense of what they want out of that situation? Any guesses?

I have no idea. (Laughs.) I really have no idea. I'm having a hard time telling all the throne contenders apart and keeping track of who is who. I have no idea why they would have an interest in the throne.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-tom-wlaschiha-interview-903976

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On 4/6/2020 at 5:41 PM, Angel Eyes said:

You can blame the Greatjon on that one.

 

If that’s what they were trying to do to silence the critics after the Ramsay/Sansa marriage, it failed miserably. 

Sadly most critics were in agreement with Sansa becoming Queen in the North. A polygon reviewer was in wholeheartedly in agreement with show’s portrayal of Sansa’s arc. Even claiming that Sansa won the battle of the bastards by - Sansa pulled Baelish’s strings to secure his forces and defeat the Boltons, only to later refute his romantic advances, and later still, entrap him with the help of her siblings and finally convict him of all the manipulative bullshit he put her through. The student had become the master. 

Clearly she’s in denial about the fact that Littlefinger did offer Sansa more troops before the battle but was rejected. It wasn’t until the nearing the end of battle did the knights of the vale magically arrived after Sansa send a plea for help to Baelish. And even later on she was still being played by Lord Baelish into killing Arya. It’s wasn’t for Bran’s deus ex machina abilities (not sure if i’m using term right) did the two sisters agreed too work together and bring Littlefinger to justice. Hardly an act for the student to became the master in her own right. Although the critic does make note that Sansa may or maynot be best ruler in the end.

It’s the same from other major outlets too like this one from the Atlantic, a critic is in agreement of Sansa becomeing queen because of her hardship she endure. Not mentioning that the plot didn’t even made sense to began with. This one is even more disappointing - though it is not review from a television critic, it still doesn’t make it less sad. Sophie Turner really believes in the fact Sansa ending made the most sense, not mentioning the fact she had to ask her little brother the right for northern independence. It seems that David & Dan really did a number on Sophie, though I guess it’s understandable given spent ten years her life on television set. She really wants to believe that hard work paid off.

If you ask me, Sansa character arc was already derailed after season five - so her ending not making any more sense than Arya, Jon and Daenerys a bit more unforgivable.

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My interpretation of the Battle of the Bastards is that Sansa withheld the key information from Jon, because she wanted the credit for the victory, and she was pissed off when Jon was made King. I remember Old Gimlet Eye (himself an ex-soldier) at the time saying a lot of commanders would have hanged Sansa for her behaviour. The scripts for Season 7 are clear that she was trying to undermine Jon's position, as Arya alleged.

I imagine that the rope, the stake, the torture chamber, and an extensive secret police force would be features of her rule post Season 8.  Like her or not, a lot of people came away with the impression that she's Tiberius in a skirt.

 

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On 4/14/2020 at 1:46 AM, SeanF said:

My interpretation of the Battle of the Bastards is that Sansa withheld the key information from Jon, because she wanted the credit for the victory, and she was pissed off when Jon was made King. I remember Old Gimlet Eye (himself an ex-soldier) at the time saying a lot of commanders would have hanged Sansa for her behaviour. The scripts for Season 7 are clear that she was trying to undermine Jon's position, as Arya alleged.

I imagine that the rope, the stake, the torture chamber, and an extensive secret police force would be features of her rule post Season 8.  Like her or not, a lot of people came away with the impression that she's Tiberius in a skirt.

Yes. Benioff/Weiss themselves said Sansa wanted to hold onto power for herself. They kept calling her Littlefinger to the end, it's not a compliment to be likened to a psychopath.

They threw a bone by giving her a tiara and making her queen of the extras. A lot of reviewers saw right through it, and said it was transparently done because of season 5.

Here's one:

Sansa (Sophie Turner) followed Dany into forced marriage — a miserable wound the series would try healing by promoting her into a Very Important Administrative Role that also pushed her to the narrative sidelines.

https://ew.com/tv-reviews/2019/05/20/game-of-thrones-finale-series-review/

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20 hours ago, SeanF said:

My interpretation of the Battle of the Bastards is that Sansa withheld the key information from Jon, because she wanted the credit for the victory, and she was pissed off when Jon was made King. I remember Old Gimlet Eye (himself an ex-soldier) at the time saying a lot of commanders would have hanged Sansa for her behaviour. The scripts for Season 7 are clear that she was trying to undermine Jon's position, as Arya alleged.

I imagine that the rope, the stake, the torture chamber, and an extensive secret police force would be features of her rule post Season 8.  Like her or not, a lot of people came away with the impression that she's Tiberius in a skirt.

 

I initially thought the same thing, but when Sophie Turner was asked at comic con after season 6 ended; in why Sansa didn’t tell Jon of the Vale army. She had no answer. So I’m of the same reasoning like Drangon Demands that David & Dan were just pandering actors emotating abilities on screen.

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5 hours ago, Tha Shiznit said:

I initially thought the same thing, but when Sophie Turner was asked at comic con after season 6 ended; in why Sansa didn’t tell Jon of the Vale army. She had no answer. So I’m of the same reasoning like Drangon Demands that David & Dan were just pandering actors emotating abilities on screen.

Absolutely.  The more you think about it, it really is just showing off the actors in bizarre situations.

The only thing that would make sense is that Sansa wanted to see Jon lose so many people and die or nearly die so that she would be the hero who takes over but the next scenes did their best to show how Sansa was never doing that.

I think we just all have to accept it made no sense, they were showing off the actors and putting characters into positions they should never have been in.

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Benioff/Weiss said Sansa held back on Jon about the Vale army to hold onto power for herself. They said she learned this from Littlefinger.

They grabbed onto whatever shiny objects caught their eye, be it something in the books to pervert, or something about the actors to exploit.

They didn't even know what they were doing themselves. So the actors were confused.

The less experienced actors would make up their own explanations that made no sense. What they said only added to the confusion.

The more experienced actors were honest in candid moments, and said they were confused, there was no character development, etc.

I put some of their comments in the interview post above where they say this.

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1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

Benioff/Weiss said Sansa held back on Jon about the Vale army to hold onto power for herself. They said she learned this from Littlefinger.

They grabbed onto whatever shiny objects caught their eye, be it something in the books to pervert, or something about the actors to exploit.

They didn't even know what they were doing themselves. So the actors were confused.

The less experienced actors would make up their own explanations that made no sense. What they said only added to the confusion.

The more experienced actors were honest in candid moments, and said they were confused, there was no character development, etc.

I put some of their comments in the interview post above where they say this.

 

1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

Benioff/Weiss said Sansa held back on Jon about the Vale army to hold onto power for herself. They said she learned this from Littlefinger.

They grabbed onto whatever shiny objects caught their eye, be it something in the books to pervert, or something about the actors to exploit.

They didn't even know what they were doing themselves. So the actors were confused.

The less experienced actors would make up their own explanations that made no sense. What they said only added to the confusion.

The more experienced actors were honest in candid moments, and said they were confused, there was no character development, etc.

I put some of their comments in the interview post above where they say this.

 

1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

Benioff/Weiss said Sansa held back on Jon about the Vale army to hold onto power for herself. They said she learned this from Littlefinger.

They grabbed onto whatever shiny objects caught their eye, be it something in the books to pervert, or something about the actors to exploit.

They didn't even know what they were doing themselves. So the actors were confused.

The less experienced actors would make up their own explanations that made no sense. What they said only added to the confusion.

The more experienced actors were honest in candid moments, and said they were confused, there was no character development, etc.

I put some of their comments in the interview post above where they say this.

Insofar as one can make sense of Season 8, I'd say that Sansa's reason for revealing Jon's parentage was to kick off a A Dance of the Dragons 2.0 between Jon and Daenerys, and to incite Daenerys' advisors to murder her.

When Jon ascends the Iron Throne over Dany's corpse, she's next in line, and/or can press for a Northern crown.  If he dies, well, he's a martyr, and she will fight in honour of his memory.  Either way, in her scheming selfish heart, she gets a crown.

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It has been said before, but is worth repeating, the difference between how the actors/directors/writers approach a show like Better Call Saul where you see so much time spent on the characters and the what, why, how of their reactions and how they evolve, even down to specific gestures in individual scenes being discussed and having meaning.......when compared with the absolute bizarro world of GOT where all the actors had to work with were the inane 'directions' from the script notes, and where it was very clear that almost none of them had any clue about 'who' their characters were let alone why they did anything in the later seasons.  

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3 hours ago, SeanF said:

 

 

Insofar as one can make sense of Season 8, I'd say that Sansa's reason for revealing Jon's parentage was to kick off a A Dance of the Dragons 2.0 between Jon and Daenerys, and to incite Daenerys' advisors to murder her.

When Jon ascends the Iron Throne over Dany's corpse, she's next in line, and/or can press for a Northern crown.  If he dies, well, he's a martyr, and she will fight in honour of his memory.  Either way, in her scheming selfish heart, she gets a crown.

Yes definitely. And if it goes wrong then Winterfell is burned to the ground and everyone close to Sansa dies, no doubt with Dany saving her for last.

That Sansa did that despite the risk is insane and really shows what a terrible person she's become.

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4 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Benioff/Weiss said Sansa held back on Jon about the Vale army to hold onto power for herself. They said she learned this from Littlefinger.

They grabbed onto whatever shiny objects caught their eye, be it something in the books to pervert, or something about the actors to exploit.

They didn't even know what they were doing themselves. So the actors were confused.

The less experienced actors would make up their own explanations that made no sense. What they said only added to the confusion.

The more experienced actors were honest in candid moments, and said they were confused, there was no character development, etc.

I put some of their comments in the interview post above where they say this.

That’s interesting they never mentioned this at comic con 2016, when asked why Sansa didn’t tell Jon about Vale reinforcements they simply diverted the question to Sophie Turner. She give some half baked answer that it was appeal to your emotions or something like that. But I guess after season six, D&D decided to change their minds and simply give Sansa schemes more motives in seasons seven and eight.

PS - Is it possible for you to post a link to were they said Sansa held back Jon Snow about the Knights of the Vale.

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