Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[Hodor the Articulate]

46 minutes ago, SeanF said:

My guess would be that they suddenly realised that people dying by wildfire explosion doesn't actually provide much of a justification for Jon killing Daenerys.  Jon killing Daenerys simply in order to save Sansa would have left Jon as a very unsympathetic and stupid character.  But, it didn't work anyway.

I think Lindsay Ellis said it best - Daenerys had to be as monstrous as possible so Jon could stay sympathetic when he murdered her. I'm surprised they didn't insist on Jon wearing all white. They showed such restraint!

[Lord Varys]

I still think the Jon-Dany murder is their take on Jaime murdering Cersei.

[Hodor the Articulate]

More and more, I think D&D were stealing ideas from internet forums and memes. In fact, we KNOW they took at least one dumb theory from the internet - Cleganebowl.

1 minute ago, Lord Varys said:

I still think the Jon-Dany murder is their take on Jaime murdering Cersei.

I did see some people speculate they swapped Cersei and Dany's stories. As in, Dany was supposed to be preggers and Cersei the one murdered by her lover.

[Ghostlydragon]

25 minutes ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

I think Lindsay Ellis said it best - Daenerys had to be as monstrous as possible so Jon could stay sympathetic when he murdered her. I'm surprised they didn't insist on Jon wearing all white. They showed such restraint!

They've done this for years. Meryn Trant goes from cruel soldier to paedophile so we can root for Arya even more. Stannis is not very likeable to a few people but isn't that bad, so they have him burn his daughter so even his fans will want him to die. Makes sense that Daenerys would have to be turned into the Devil, who is also insane now, so we can cheer Jon on.

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

I think Lindsay Ellis said it best - Daenerys had to be as monstrous as possible so Jon could stay sympathetic when he murdered her. I'm surprised they didn't insist on Jon wearing all white. They showed such restraint!

Perhaps they should have had Daenerys slitting the throat of Ghost, while cackling wildly.  

And, yet it did not work.  We could all see how crude and abrupt the vilification was.

[Count Balerion]

Basically, don't expect it to make sense. Narrative logic is irrelevant. Character deve... what?

They even sort of laid the groundwork with the tiff between Sansa and Dany. Not that that was very motivated at all. But have Sansa somehow plot against Dany (maybe she could send those letters stating Jon is the rightful heir?), and you've got a motive for Dany to say she must die for treason ... and Jon has a plausible and not too dastardly reason to kill her. I came up with that in a couple of minutes.

[Cas Stark]

23 hours ago, SeanF said:

Perhaps they should have had Daenerys slitting the throat of Ghost, while cackling wildly.  

And, yet it did not work.  We could all see how crude and abrupt the vilification was.

I'm wondering, if, whatever GRRM told them, and I still doubt that he will have Jon directly kill her like that because its so ridiculous, but even if he does, it may have been better for the show if they had Tyrion poison her and then Jon can fuck off because he's a stickler for 'honor'...and Dany could have had a great death scene.  Its still amazing and SO LAZY they refused to give her any lines of revelation/reflection at her death.  Not having Jon as the killer would have prevented the stupidity of him not being immediately killed and of a confirmed treasonous prisoner being the one who convinced everyone that Bran should be king.  If Jon didn't kill her, he'd be the rightful kind and he could then believably put his bro on the throne and free the North before going off to sulk and be miserable. 

[Le Cygne]

On 7/5/2020 at 10:40 AM, Hodor the Articulate said:

More and more, I think D&D were stealing ideas from internet forums and memes. In fact, we KNOW they took at least one dumb theory from the internet - Cleganebowl.

Thanks for mentioning that. I wanted to mock them for that and put a bunch of reviews here (I kept finding more and more).

This sums it up: "The fact that Cleganebowl actually happened is hilarious. It was a joke. We were joking."

Sandor chose not to be a kinslayer in season 1. The whole point was he didn't really want to do it. Then they nullified his whole storyline.

They did the same with Jaime. The whole point was, he really cared about the people. Then they nullified his whole storyline, too.

On 7/4/2020 at 11:41 PM, The Dragon Demands said:

What tipped me off that this is how they work?  Probably the soul-crushing Blu-ray commentary for the Sansa rape scene in which the quisling Bryan Cogman goes on a 12 minute rant openly defending that the justification for this invented rape subplot is that it shows off Sophie Turner's acting abilities.  "These Performances, These Faces". 

What a horrible little man. Never going to watch anything he is remotely involved with. Such blatant hostility toward women.

He talked about her like she was his puppet. He made her do things no one would ever do, then made her thank him.

It's exploiting the audience, where the actors emote on cue to get a reaction. No one bought this, but he never stopped trying to sell it.

[Morte]

On 7/5/2020 at 4:40 PM, Hodor the Articulate said:

More and more, I think D&D were stealing ideas from internet forums and memes. In fact, we KNOW they took at least one dumb theory from the internet - Cleganebowl.

Not only that, but also from other fiction and fandoms... May I, again, point toward this *cogh*:

Both Arthas and Sindragosa were a lot cooler btw!

[The Dragon Demands]

yeah

[Bear Claw]

On 7/5/2020 at 8:27 AM, Hodor the Articulate said:

I think Lindsay Ellis said it best - Daenerys had to be as monstrous as possible so Jon could stay sympathetic when he murdered her. I'm surprised they didn't insist on Jon wearing all white. They showed such restraint!

He was just as monstrous as what they portrayed her  because he kept defending her actions. On one hand, he would make faces like he was disgusted , but when he opened his mouth, it was to defend her. I guess they were trying to show how difficult his decision was, but it really wasn't a difficult decision. 

[Corvinus85]

On 7/5/2020 at 9:40 AM, Hodor the Articulate said:

More and more, I think D&D were stealing ideas from internet forums and memes. In fact, we KNOW they took at least one dumb theory from the internet - Cleganebowl.

Hell they probably got most of their ideas from their D&D campaigns with John Manganiello, Vince Vaughn, and a bunch of other actors/filmmakers.

 

[Count Balerion]

Did anyone really badly want "Cleganebowl"? I guess someone must have?

[Le Cygne]

On 7/5/2020 at 12:13 PM, SeanF said:

Perhaps they should have had Daenerys slitting the throat of Ghost, while cackling wildly.  

And, yet it did not work.  We could all see how crude and abrupt the vilification was.

Indeed. Let's revisit the script, where Jon simultaneously loved Dany dearly AND murdered her. Look what you made me do, the cry of domestic abusers that they played out like a good thing:

He looks into the eyes of the woman he loves... He hopes for one last moment with her.

Of course Benioff/Weiss are the men who took what GRRM called "probably the blackest deed that he’s ever done" when Tyrion murdered Shae into another Look what you made me do moment.

They silenced Dany and Shae when they murdered them. Osha was silenced, too. It's all about the men. What a nasty death they chose for Osha, shaming her for what they made her do.

Oh and they got another dig in at Catelyn, who they made call herself "the worst woman who ever lived" for wanting Jon to die of the pox! Here's Tyrion manipulating Jon about his sisters:

And your sisters? They’re both as stubborn as their mother ever was.

And Tyrion bases this on nothing. They turned Sansa's many moments of resisting him into honoring him, and he spent no time with Arya. All that matters is he must be appreciated.

Benioff/Weiss surrounded themselves with yes men like themselves, so none of their issues with women were ever addressed. Their own misogyny tainted the show all along, and is their legacy.

Also while reading the script it's clear how bad they are at even the basics of scriptwriting, all of their bizarre reasoning for their bizarre plotting is in the script notes, not the dialogue or action.

And the explanations don't explain anything. It's just stupid piled upon stupid. This is so bad:

The dragon rises up on his hind legs, towering over Jon. In a beautiful, terrifying tableaux, he roars to the sky, the embodiment of rage. He looks down at Jon. We see the fire build up in his throat. Jon sees it as well. He prepares to die.  But the blast is not for him. Drogon wants to burn the world but he will not kill Jon. He breathes fire on the back wall, blasting down what remains of the great red blocks of stone. We look over Jon’s shoulder as the fire sweeps toward the throne-- not the target of Drogon’s wrath, just a dumb bystander caught up in the conflagration.

Why didn't he burn Jon. Who cares about Jon, it's all about the throne. No, it's not about the throne. Then what's it all about? Who knows and who cares. It's gonna look awesome!

It's all about the shot. Won't this look cool! Dragon angry! Jon scared! Stuff burns! Awesome!

[Hodor the Articulate]

8 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

just a dumb bystander caught up in the conflagration

lol so Jon was purposely written as a dumb-dumb? I thought that was a side-effect of them trying to keep him good. Like, he can't believe his lover is evil even though he just saw her blazing up the civilians because he's just too pure.

Then again, D&D probably thinks morally good people are dumb, and people with power doing good too much will turn evil.

[SeanF]

I still prefer my version of the ending.

Jon stabs Dany, only to find his dagger snags on the lining of steel plates in her dress.  She replies "Do you think I'd be so f*cking stupid as to leave myself unprotected in a city I've just sacked."  Grey Worm arrests Jon, who confesses that Tyrion encouraged him to murder her.

Dany tells Jon he can redeem himself by burning Tyrion at the stake. He does so, while the Unsullied drum their spears on the ground in approval.  She then tells him that nothing gets her in the mood, like watching a traitor burn.  They then proceed to have wild sex with each other.

The episode ends with Dany flying North to burn Winterfell to the ground, while Jon leads an army on the ground.

[Angel Eyes]

5 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

lol so Jon was purposely written as a dumb-dumb? I thought that was a side-effect of them trying to keep him good. Like, he can't believe his lover is evil even though he just saw her blazing up the civilians because he's just too pure.

Then again, D&D probably thinks morally good people are dumb, and people with power doing good too much will turn evil.

GRRM seems to think the same thing. Just look at Ned.

[Angel Eyes]

17 hours ago, Count Balerion said:

Did anyone really badly want "Cleganebowl"? I guess someone must have?

I will say that Cleganebowl at least wasn't messed up.

[kissdbyfire]

22 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

I will say that Cleganebowl at least wasn't messed up.

How so?

[TargBastard0]

5 hours ago, SeanF said:

I still prefer my version of the ending.

Jon stabs Dany, only to find his dagger snags on the lining of steel plates in her dress.  She replies "Do you think I'd be so f*cking stupid as to leave myself unprotected in a city I've just sacked."  Grey Worm arrests Jon, who confesses that Tyrion encouraged him to murder her.

Dany tells Jon he can redeem himself by burning Tyrion at the stake. He does so, while the Unsullied drum their spears on the ground in approval.  She then tells him that nothing gets her in the mood, like watching a traitor burn.  They then proceed to have wild sex with each other.

The episode ends with Dany flying North to burn Winterfell to the ground, while Jon leads an army on the ground.

hahahah
that one is actually funny