Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[SeanF]

34 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

He has his own way of writing, these are not books for the faint of heart. It always amazes me that people read these books, which are gritty and gruff, then criticize GRRM for making the romances gritty and gruff, too.

As for Jaime and Cersei, that was a cautionary tale, not a romance. She basically destroyed him from childhood on, and he slowly realized this. The blood on the altar of dead Joffrey was symbolic, it was the end of their relationship.

Nothing was the same after that. GRRM put a lot of time and effort into showing this, things like Jaime saying no when she grabbed him in the White Sword Tower, and turning a new page in the White Book.

A breeze that was once like Cersei's fingers became like a woman's fingers. And then he's asked, what do you admire in a woman, and he answers innocence... And shortly thereafter, in walks Brienne back into his life.

(And of course, the stupid show got it all wrong. Of course.)

Actually, I enjoyed the scene.  It's so gross and twisted that it made me laugh.

22 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

And the show made Jaime rape Cersei in that scene. It’s almost like the opposite of what happens in the book. It’s shocking how they really didn’t care and didn’t get it. Any of it, in any storyline. 

And yet, D & D thought it was romantic.

They revealed some really twisted views about women and romance (well, about everything really) from start to finish.

As far back as Episode 6 of Season 1, we got "play with her arse".  I could kick myself for getting so invested in the show.  Even when the quality plummeted, I somehow persuaded myself that they'd pull something out of the hat, and of course, I've been waiting nine years to find out what happens next in the books.

[Angel Eyes]

51 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Actually, I enjoyed the scene.  It's so gross and twisted that it made me laugh.

And yet, D & D thought it was romantic.

They revealed some really twisted views about women and romance (well, about everything really) from start to finish.

As far back as Episode 6 of Season 1, we got "play with her arse".  I could kick myself for getting so invested in the show.  Even when the quality plummeted, I somehow persuaded myself that they'd pull something out of the hat, and of course, I've been waiting nine years to find out what happens next in the books.

Not like the books aren’t any more twisted about romance. How else would Sansa be attracted to someone 15+ years her senior whose main interaction with her is mocking and belittling her?

It was Season 1 Episode 7 where that happened (and that is how we get the term “sexposition”). 

[Le Cygne]

2 hours ago, SeanF said:

Actually, I enjoyed the scene.  It's so gross and twisted that it made me laugh.

And yet, D & D thought it was romantic.

They revealed some really twisted views about women and romance (well, about everything really) from start to finish.

As far back as Episode 6 of Season 1, we got "play with her arse".  I could kick myself for getting so invested in the show.  Even when the quality plummeted, I somehow persuaded myself that they'd pull something out of the hat, and of course, I've been waiting nine years to find out what happens next in the books.

Yeah, Benioff and Weiss had seriously twisted views of everything, and none worse than how they viewed women. And the books used romance to show their feelings.

They also had seriously bad reading comprehension.

Books like these don't come right out with things. People often say the opposite of what they mean. The story is in the details. And it all flew straight over their heads.

We all wasted time on the show, you are not alone. It was fun to criticize it, though. To hold them to things they said, when you knew they would fail to deliver.

The show will forever be known for "how not to do it."

Edited September 20, 2020 by Le Cygne

[Le Cygne]

Article about Diana Rigg:

“My very first scene with her, I asked her to do a very minor thing,” Mylod said. “Like, ‘Would it make sense if you close the door and walk a few paces before this moment?’ She came back with some rebuttal about why she wanted to do it another way and then said: ‘Thank you! Go away!’ I became a five-year-old boy. I could feel myself blushing and creeping back to my monitor, stripped of any kind of dignity or authority.”

Another memorable Rigg moment occurred during the filming of a scene where Olenna cuts short a conversation she is having with Ellaria Sand and the Sand Snakes by quipping, “Oh do shut up. Let the grown women speak.”

“She walked onto the set, and she went, ‘I’m ready now!'” Nymeria actress Jessica Henwick says. “A cameraman came over and went, ‘Well, okay, but we haven’t finished setting up.’ She interrupted him and said, ‘Roll the cameras!’ And she just started doing her lines. She did two takes, and then the guy came over and was like, ‘Great, now we’re going to do a close-up.’ And she just stood up and she went, ‘I’m done!”

https://www.indiewire.com/2020/09/game-of-thrones-diana-rigg-shut-down-direction-stormed-off-set-1234587081/

Good for her. I bet there are more stories we'll never hear.

[Count Balerion]

Diana Riggs vs. Boonioff: who would win?

And yes, the sex scenesx in the books are kind of gross. I commonly skip them. But then the show does this weird thing where prostitutes like being prostitutes. Except maybe Ros. Remember the sad music when LF's bordello is destroyed?

[Ser Drewy]

Benioff and Weiss finally address removing Lady Stoneheart: https://ew.com/tv/game-of-thrones-lady-stoneheart

Their reasons... aren't particularly compelling, in my opinion. 

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Ser Drewy

[Nowy Tends]

22 minutes ago, Ser Drewy said:

Their reasons... aren't particularly compelling, in my opinion. 

Their reasons are 100% bullshit imho.

"undead version of Catelyn seemed beneath the dignity of actress Michelle Fairley" is ridiculous…

[Ser Drewy]

10 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

Their reasons are 100% bullshit imho.

"undead version of Catelyn seemed beneath the dignity of actress Michelle Fairley" is ridiculous…

One of their reasons, not wanting to spoil the 'shock' of Jon coming back, is really irritating as it once again indicates their focus is mostly on surprising moments rather than developing meaningful narrative and thematic threads throughout the series. It honestly seems like their thinking rarely goings any deeper than, "won't it be shocking if we do this" and  "how can make this really surprising?". 

[Prince of the North]

10 minutes ago, Ser Drewy said:

One of their reasons, not wanting to spoil the 'shock' of Jon coming back, is really irritating as it once again indicates their focus is mostly on surprising moments rather than developing meaningful narrative and thematic threads throughout the series. It honestly seems like their thinking rarely goings any deeper than, "won't it be shocking if we do this" and  "how can make this really surprising?". 

Also, sure, Jon "came back"...but then what did they do with that?!  Absolutely nothing!  

[Ser Drewy]

18 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

Also, sure, Jon "came back"...but then what did they do with that?!  Absolutely nothing!  

Pretty much. The total lack of any meaningful developments surrounding Jon's death is odd. It seems like they didn't really have any ideas as to how to go about exploring it and continuing the story. His return is then basically shrugged off and you'd be forgiven for forgetting he even died due to how unchanged he is as a character. 

[Prince of the North]

Just now, Ser Drewy said:

Pretty much. The total lack of any meaningful developments surrounding Jon's death is odd. It seems like they didn't really have any ideas as to how to go about exploring it and continuing the story. His return is then basically shrugged off and you'd be forgiven for forgetting he even died due to how unchanged he is as a character. 

Sadly, it is exactly as you said above.  They just thought "wouldn't it be cool and shocking if Jon came back from the dead?!" and that was their entire end goal.  The goal wasn't telling a story, character development, furthering any themes or storylines or anything else.  It was always just "Ooooh, shiny!"

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, Ser Drewy said:

Benioff and Weiss finally address removing Lady Stoneheart: https://ew.com/tv/game-of-thrones-lady-stoneheart

Their reasons... aren't particularly compelling, in my opinion. 

 

What a load of bollocks. 

1: they didn't want to spoil anything: well, they sure as hell didn't mind spoiling a bunch of other things, going as far as the Stannis thing which was just David & Dan hiding behind Martin's back after the Sansa Poole backlash. IMO this points to Jaime doing something that would make him, at the very least, interesting. And we can't have anything that contradicts the dumb douchy Jaime they turned the character into. 

2: LSH would be beneath Fairley: I have to look it up, but didn't Michelle Fairley say she'd love to come back as LSH? This was, iirc, right before one of the series where there was huge speculation that LSH was going to appear. 

3: diminish the shock of Jon's death and resurrection:

what @Prince of the North said, what did they do w/ that? Nothing, absolutely fucking nothing. Jon's death was pathetic and laughable... remember Olly? His resurrection scene was one of the most underwhelming ever, and the "consequences" were... well, non-existent. 

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by kissdbyfire

[Ser Drewy]

Adding to the Jon stuff: Jon and Catelyn both being murdered and coming back as changed people would have some interesting thematic connections and parallels, possibly. It kind of speaks to the superficiality of their approach that they seem to have chosen being shocking over more in-depth matters like that. 

[Ghostlydragon]

Worse reasons ever!

[Corvinus85]

In hindsight of everything, I approve of reason #1, not spoiling future book stuff. I'm glad we can now definitively separate the show from the books.

But reasons #2 and #3 yet again shows how little they understood the story GRRM was trying to tell. Lessen the impact of the Red Wedding? ha, not if you did it right. But considering that bringing back Jon Snow amounted to a haircut, and some measly dialogue with Sansa and Melisandre, I guess it was the right decision.

[Le Cygne]

3 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

What a load of bollocks. 

1: they didn't want to spoil anything: well, they sure as hell didn't mind spoiling a bunch of other things, going as far as the Stannis thing which was just David & Dan hiding behind Martin's back after the Sansa Poole backlash. IMO this points to Jaime doing something that would make him, at the very least, interesting. And we can't have anything that contradicts the dumb douchy Jaime they turned the character into. 

2: LSH would be beneath Fairley: I have to look it up, but didn't Michelle Fairley say she'd love to come back as LSH? This was, iirc, right before one of the series where there was huge speculation that LSH was going to appear. 

3: diminish the shock of Jon's death and resurrection:

what @Prince of the North said, what did they do w/ that? Nothing, absolutely fucking nothing. Jon's death was pathetic and laughable... remember Olly? His resurrection scene was one of the most underwhelming ever, and the "consequences" were... well, non-existent.

1. Agree. As usual they are lying. They were actually jealous of Jaime, which is pathetic. They'd say things like everyone likes him because he's good looking. Revenge of the nerds.

2. Michelle definitely wanted to come back. Only FOOLS would not listen to the author when he strongly argues to include a character because she's that important.

They screwed over Jaime, Brienne, and Sandor, who are all in the Riverlands, and various characters there keep mentioning Sansa, and Mad Mouse just passed through to her.

None of them did a damn thing after they cut LSH.

3. Jon's resurrection was a wet fart. It was even gross the way they went about it. I have some vague memory that she cut up his hair or something? And then his chest all cut up.

He died for Olly. What kind of fools would put Olly at the center instead of Arya. It's such a boneheaded move, it's painful to think about, how much STORY was lost there.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Le Cygne

[The Dragon Demands]

yeah

Edited July 27, 2022 by The Dragon Demands

[The Dragon Demands]

yeah

Edited July 27, 2022 by The Dragon Demands

[The Dragon Demands]

yeah

Edited July 27, 2022 by The Dragon Demands

[Le Cygne]

Looks like Cogman (who is every bit as bad as Benioff and Weiss) is still name dropping movies they stole from, because they don't have a creative bone in their bodies. That they tried to copy a production of Shakespeare is hilarious for obvious reasons.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Le Cygne