Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[darmody]

5 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

After that whole Vale Army boondoggle, I remember reading a couple of articles basically celebrating what a player Sandra was for keeping information about the Vale Army a secret.

And I thought to myself, are the people writing this stuff, even vaguely aware how realistically doing something like that would be insanely stupid and dangerous?

There were so many other ways they could have done that plot to make Sansa look good. Instead, they chose to make her do something, that made her look petty and stupid. It was terrible writing.

Stupid, yes. Petty? More like treasonous. That's the sort of thing that can lose you a head. 

Not that Jon would Olly her. But if she weren't in the protected role of wronged lady, she would be seen as secret-cousin backstabber. 

[Mystical]

11 minutes ago, darmody said:

Except that would rely upon Ramsay not noticing him, and just hanging around would be the best possible way to be discovered. 

Except that's exactly what happened. So what's your point? Scouts are a thing of the past, like S2/3.

Quote

Not that Jon would Olly her. But if she weren't in the protected role of wronged lady, she would be seen as secret-cousin backstabber.

No one in the show sees it as treason. So again, what's your point?

[darmody]

5 hours ago, SeanF said:

Ellaria's final scene is outstanding. So very chilling, and yet, so effective.  Ellaria's hate, and fear, and panic.  Cersei gloating over her torment, but then breaking down as she speaks of Myrcella's death.  If they becan do that, why come up with such an awful Dornish plot?  Why not instead, have an Ellaria who was mad for revenge persuading Doran to launch a doomed war, and take it from there?

You're talking about the actors carrying the material. There wasn't much to the actual scene. Horrible as it was, it was dramatically just dragging out the torture of events already decided. 

[darmody]

1 minute ago, Mystical said:

Except that's exactly what happened. So what's your point? 

It happened that they weren't noticed, but we don't know that it was Little Finger's plan to wait and pop up at the exact moment he did. I like to think that wasn't the plan, because I like to think Little Finger wasn't an idiot. 

[Mystical]

Btw can I rant about people who clearly want to up their post count by spamming? This is not allowed in 99% of the forums out there. There should be auto merge or mods editing.

The edit button exists for a reason, use it. Multi-quoting is a thing, learn it. And for the love of god...don't quote yourself. If you have anything to add to your post, EDIT.

Quote

It happened that they weren't noticed, but we don't know that it was Little Finger's plan to wait and pop up at the exact moment he did. I like to think that wasn't the plan, because I like to think Little Finger wasn't an idiot. 

THERE WERE NO SCOUTS on Ramsey's side. Scouts don't exist on this show anymore. In any battle. That's a fact. That's what happened. What we know and don't know doesn't matter anyway. Plot holes exist, lots of them, fill them with your own head canon if you want. But some things are facts. Such as every army getting surprised in every battle we have seen for Seasons because this show is written by simpletons who don't know the first thing about battle. And all they had to do was watch their own show to get something that basic.

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, Mystical said:

Btw can I rant about people who clearly want to up their post count by spamming? This is not allowed in 99% of the forums out there. There should be auto merge or mods editing.

The edit button exists for a reason, use it. Multi-quoting is a thing, learn it. And for the love of god...don't quote yourself. If you have anything to add to your post, EDIT.

THERE WERE NO SCOUTS on Ramsey's side. Scouts don't exist on this show anymore. In any battle. That's a fact. That's what happened. What we know and don't know doesn't matter anyway. Plot holes exist, lots of them, fill them with your own head canon if you want. But some things are facts. Such as every army getting surprised in every battle we have seen for Seasons because this show is written by simpletons who don't know the first thing about battle. And all they had to do was watch their own show to get something that basic.

That 's a wider criticism of military campaigning on film and TV.  For some reason, armies never deploy scouts and outriders, and so it's easy to ambush them in the middle of a forest or mountain pass.

[Vaith]

11 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

After that whole Vale Army boondoggle, I remember reading a couple of articles basically celebrating what a player Sandra was for keeping information about the Vale Army a secret.

There's also the take of Sansa "killing" Ramsay completely negating the effects of the Sansa Marriage Strike, even though all she did was like, give the command to set some dogs on a guy who was already tied up.

[OldGimletEye]

6 hours ago, Mystical said:

How do you know for sure that Sansa even knew they were coming?

Well I guess no one did. Not even Ramsay. So I guess the only thing that makes sense is that the Vale Army had a Romulan Cloaking device or something. That's how it crept into the North without anyone knowing about it.

From that we can deduce, I suppose the following:

1. After the battle planning meeting, Sandra was upset so she went for ride. Or maybe she went for a run for no particular reason, like sorta Forest Gump style.

2. She then somehow runs into the Vale Army. But, if it was using the Romulan Cloaking Device, then how did Sandra see it? I guess cause the Vale Army had to fire its disruptors, or maybe its plasma torpedoes.

[Cas Stark]

6 hours ago, Mystical said:

Except that's exactly what happened. So what's your point? Scouts are a thing of the past, like S2/3.

No one in the show sees it as treason. So again, what's your point?

Because it's an insult to the viewers intelligence, when they saw multiple scenes of everyone shouting and wailing that they needed more men!  Of only we had more men!  We need to wait until we have more men!

And all the while Sansa had a Vale army up her sleeve that she never bothers to mention.  In real life or a better show, such an act, would have created a rift between Sansa and everyone else in the North even if the Vale army did materialize in the end, or she would have used that Vale army to take power from Jon Snow.  The fact that none of this happens, and they have a 2 sentence exchange and all is forgiven is simply poor plot and bad writing.

Indeed, you might have even had Jon and Sansa discuss whether to wait and see if the Vale army would come...and have Jon decide they can't wait.  

[Vaith]

56 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Well I guess no one did. Not even Ramsay. So I guess the only thing that makes sense is that the Vale Army had a Romulan Cloaking device or something. That's how it crept into the North without anyone knowing about it.

From that we can deduce, I suppose the following:

1. After the battle planning meeting, Sandra was upset so she went for ride. Or maybe she went for a run for no particular reason, like sorta Forest Gump style.

2. She then somehow runs into the Vale Army. But, if it was using the Romulan Cloaking Device, then how did Sandra see it? I guess cause the Vale Army had to fire its disruptors, or maybe its plasma torpedoes.

And if the North itself is this entirely scout-less place or the Manderlys are giving them a free pass on the way up to Winterfell, they had to cross the entire Riverlands to get to Moat Cailin -- I guess they just snuck around the Frey-controlled Twins? 

[Vaith]

Also it's time to prepare for some ranting and raving tonight. Who's excited for "Harry Strickland"?

[divica]

19 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Because it's an insult to the viewers intelligence, when they saw multiple scenes of everyone shouting and wailing that they needed more men!  Of only we had more men!  We need to wait until we have more men!

And all the while Sansa had a Vale army up her sleeve that she never bothers to mention.  In real life or a better show, such an act, would have created a rift between Sansa and everyone else in the North even if the Vale army did materialize in the end, or she would have used that Vale army to take power from Jon Snow.  The fact that none of this happens, and they have a 2 sentence exchange and all is forgiven is simply poor plot and bad writing.

Indeed, you might have even had Jon and Sansa discuss whether to wait and see if the Vale army would come...and have Jon decide they can't wait.  

Not even sansa could explain why she didn t tell jon. I think the guy that directed the episode where they talk must not have understood why she kept the vale army a secret and decided to cut the explanation...

And all this is ignoring how stupid that battle was directed. I think I never saw a battle with so little logic.

[divica]

2 minutes ago, Vaith said:

Also it's time to prepare for some ranting and raving tonight. Who's excited for "Harry Strickland"?

Why would a sellsword company agree to fight for cersei when her cause seems lost? Or if they know about the dead why would they go to westeros?

[Vaith]

Just now, divica said:

Why would a sellsword company agree to fight for cersei when her cause seems lost? Or if they know about the dead why would they go to westeros?

It's also a traditionally Blackfyre-backing company supporting the Lannisters.... oh, and the most important thing, Cersei has no gold, as Tywin admitted that their mines ran dry. I guess we're supposed to think it's from the gold that was plundered at Highgarden, even though we saw Dany attack the loot train and burn everyone? 

Moreover, Cersei doesn't really have to lift a finger since all of her opponents are going north. She could probably take Dragonstone fairly easily once Dany is away. I guess she might be planning to invade the North during winter? Since none of her "enemies to the south/west/east" exist in those geographic locations as enemies, any more. 

[Cas Stark]

4 minutes ago, divica said:

Not even sansa could explain why she didn t tell jon. I think the guy that directed the episode where they talk must not have understood why she kept the vale army a secret and decided to cut the explanation...

And all this is ignoring how stupid that battle was directed. I think I never saw a battle with so little logic.

I watched that episode last night, and while there were some great ground level shots of the battle and nice editing and quick cuts that worked well...the huge pile of bodies, I thought was dumb.  And maybe I missed the strategic military reason that everything was being done in a huge circle.  So, I'm going to say that while there were some nice directing elements to the battle scene, it is seriously over praised.

[Erick Storm]

13 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they spend the entire season or that episode beating into our heads how our crafty and cunning Ramsay is?

And then 10,000 dudes slip into his territory and he doesn't even notice. 

You missed when Roose called him out on his stupid games and when he let Sansa and Theon slip out. He's not THAT smart and he's been shown to be reckless. He could do his thing because no one is paying attention, until then. Littlefinger is similar, save for the recklessness.

 

Scouts get caught. Remember S2?

The Knights of the Vale are on horse so they can stand back far away.

Ramsay provoked Jon to the north and had them outside his walls. He's not expecting the Vale.

Even if he knew, LF gave Sansa to Ramsay. There's little reason to be threatened by them.

[OldGimletEye]

4 minutes ago, Erick Storm said:

Ramsay provoked Jon to the north and had them outside his walls. He's not expecting the Vale.

Yeah, I guess 10,000 heavily armored men marching about 250 miles or so, could be easily mistaken as being tourist.

[OldGimletEye]

2 minutes ago, Erick Storm said:

I gave you 4 reasons why. You really did get dumber from watching the show, didn't you?

I might be dumber than a box of rocks, but even I know your 4 "reasons" aren't really that good of an explanation.

What does that say about your "reasons"?

[Cas Stark]

7 minutes ago, Erick Storm said:

You missed when Roose called him out on his stupid games and when he let Sansa and Theon slip out. He's not THAT smart and he's been shown to be reckless. He could do his thing because no one is paying attention, until then. Littlefinger is similar, save for the recklessness.

 

Scouts get caught. Remember S2?

The Knights of the Vale are on horse so they can stand back far away.

Ramsay provoked Jon to the north and had them outside his walls. He's not expecting the Vale.

Even if he knew, LF gave Sansa to Ramsay. There's little reason to be threatened by them.

? All of them?  All the scouts got caught?  And then Ramsay didn't wonder why he hadn't heard from these scouts?  

I don't get the second point, the knights are a huge army moving through the country on horse.  They couldn't possibly arrive unseen.  And, not one person in the Vale or the North thought to get some gold by telling the Boltons of this huge army moving toward WF?

Surely, since Ramsay knows that LF betrayed the Lannisters, it might occur to him that LF would betray the Boltons?

Why bother making excuses for a poorly constructed segment that is full of plot holes?

[divica]

18 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I watched that episode last night, and while there were some great ground level shots of the battle and nice editing and quick cuts that worked well...the huge pile of bodies, I thought was dumb.  And maybe I missed the strategic military reason that everything was being done in a huge circle.  So, I'm going to say that while there were some nice directing elements to the battle scene, it is seriously over praised.

The battle was beutifully shot. What I meant by directed was how the people in the battle behaved.

Am I supposed to believe jon would march alone against an entire army that was shooting arrows at him? That he wouldn t get shot?

that the wildlings don t have any kind of shields?

That the giant doesn t have any kind of weapon?

that a Wall of dead bodies somehow appeared?

That a surroounded army doesn t know they have to charge in one direction?

That ramsay woulg choose to shot a giant instead of jon that was at his side?

The battle didn t have any logic!