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Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!


The Fattest Leech

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On 12/16/2020 at 4:04 PM, Angel Eyes said:

And yet in Sansa's case it's romanticized (read: The Hound). That's something from the novels that I can't really understand about Sansa, outside of the idea that Sansa's damaged enough that she's trying to hold onto any scrap of kindness even thought the person responsible for that act belittles and bullies her almost every time they interact.

@Prince of the North Sandor bullies and belittles Sansa almost every time they interact in the books, yet Sansa romanticizes him in her thoughts and dreams; she imagines Lothor Brune as The Hound when he stops Marillion's attempt to rape her, and then there's the Unkiss.

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one other detail in the book. tyrion killed his father because tywin taught him never to make a threat you don't carry out. lord captain commander dunn points out that makes tyrion's attitude to dany later nonsensical. e.g., he's upset when she burns the tarleys, when she's just following precisely the same philoisophy: she threatened to burn them and did.

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5 hours ago, Count Balerion said:

one other detail in the book. tyrion killed his father because tywin taught him never to make a threat you don't carry out. lord captain commander dunn points out that makes tyrion's attitude to dany later nonsensical. e.g., he's upset when she burns the tarleys, when she's just following precisely the same philoisophy: she threatened to burn them and did.

Just another silly contrivance.  It’’s been quite well-established hitherto, that death is the penalty for treason as the fates of the Boltons, Freys, Janos Slynt etc show.  If Daenerys can’t protect an ally, she at least has to avenge them.  If anything, she was showing weakness even by offering clemency to the Tarlys.

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9 hours ago, SeanF said:

Just another silly contrivance.  It’’s been quite well-established hitherto, that death is the penalty for treason as the fates of the Boltons, Freys, Janos Slynt etc show.  If Daenerys can’t protect an ally, she at least has to avenge them.  If anything, she was showing weakness even by offering clemency to the Tarlys.

I can imagine if season 7 played out logically and cersei was overthrown and bought out for execution without the stupidity of things like Highgarden falling and somehow losing all the Dornish support, Tyrion would beg for Cersei's life, even though showing any mercy would cause Dany's Reach allies to turn on her. It would be justice for Margery's and Loras' murders but Dany having Cersei killed in any way would no doubt be made to look like a bad thing.

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On 12/14/2020 at 6:20 PM, Count Balerion said:

yikes, i forgot the beetle segment. natalie dormer was only willing to do it w/ tommen when told it's in the books (that's not in hibberd but audio commentary). the cat who "played" ser pounce "was a real diva" and wouldn't do anything. the lady who played shae didn't understand why shae testified against tyrion; it seemed she should understand why tyrion was casting her aside. hibberd uses apotheosis when he means epitome. dan b. weiss says pedro pascal "thought we were being nice. he didn't know us yet." there were a bunch of yachts that were in the way, and everyone moved except one chap who kept deliberately trying to get in their shots, but everyone laughed b/c he wasn't in their shots at all; it was a yachtrage". D&D held a meeting where they decided to drop tysha around this time; but the book so far has not mentioned tysha anywhere.

Wait, did they actually tell her that Tommen and Margaery have sex in the books? He's like 9 when they get married, and she just gives him kittens.

That they gave up on Ser Pounce after he was such a big hit is telling.

They go out of their way to add their stupid things like babies in bottles... but another simple petting a kitten scene is NO WE CAN'T DO THAT!

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What I didn't like about Arya and Gendry scene:

1. There was no actual story to go with it. As with all things on this show, they never actually tell stories. So there was no romance for Arya and Gendry, but hey, it was all about sex, so whatever. And yet, there was no sexual awakening story, either.

2. It was yet another GoT naked woman scene. She's the main character, so showing her desiring NAKED GENDRY would be showing her perspective. And let's go back to number 1, since there was no actual story so that's the least they could have done to sort of tell one.

3. Arya used Gendry like a vibrator, then tossed him aside. Book Arya would never have treated him that way. Also it's very anachronistic. Even though she's been through hell, she should have at the very least shown some uncertainty, since this was her first time. Unrealistic.

4. Arya, Arya, Arya! (In Jan Brady voice.) When is it Sansa's turn? Never. They made a woman all about what someone else did to her body in I Spit On Ramsay's Grave... but they never let the woman enjoy her body. Sansa has a great story along those lines in the books (a la Beauty and the Beast).

Anyway, in terms of older men and younger women, there are lots of these age gaps in period romances. There's a 20 year age gap in Jane Eyre, as well as in Daphne DuMaurier's Rebecca, for example. In Outlander, a 15 year old marries a 30 year old and has a very happy marriage.

Would I write it this way? Hell no. But when you are reading a book you didn't write, you go with the story or you read something else. What the authors are going for with these age gaps is an exploration of the experience vs. innocence theme. Who is wiser? Often the younger woman.

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1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

What I didn't like about Arya and Gendry scene:

1. There was no actual story to go with it. As with all things on this show, they never actually tell stories. So there was no romance for Arya and Gendry, but hey, it was all about sex, so whatever. And yet, there was no sexual awakening story, either.

2. It was yet another GoT naked woman scene. She's the main character, so showing her desiring NAKED GENDRY would be showing her perspective. And let's go back to number 1, since there was no actual story so that's the least they could have done to sort of tell one.

3. Arya used Gendry like a vibrator, then tossed him aside. Book Arya would never have treated him that way. Also it's very anachronistic. Even though she's been through hell, she should have at the very least shown some uncertainty, since this was her first time. Unrealistic.

4. Arya, Arya, Arya! (In Jan Brady voice.) When is it Sansa's turn? Never. They made a woman all about what someone else did to her body in I Spit On Ramsay's Grave... but they never let the woman enjoy her body. Sansa has a great story along those lines in the books (a la Beauty and the Beast).

Anyway, in terms of older men and younger women, there are lots of these age gaps in period romances. There's a 20 year age gap in Jane Eyre, as well as in Daphne DuMaurier's Rebecca, for example. In Outlander, a 15 year old marries a 30 year old and has a very happy marriage.

Would I write it this way? Hell no. But when you are reading a book you didn't write, you go with the story or you read something else. What the authors are going for with these age gaps is an exploration of the experience vs. innocence theme. Who is wiser? Often the younger woman.

It certainly should not follow that big age gaps have to be exploitative.  I'm married to a lovely woman who is fourteen years older than I am.

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4 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Wait, did they actually tell her that Tommen and Margaery have sex in the books? He's like 9 when they get married, and she just gives him kittens.

That they gave up on Ser Pounce after he was such a big hit is telling.

They go out of their way to add their stupid things like babies in bottles... but another simple petting a kitten scene is NO WE CAN'T DO THAT!

Poor Tommen and poor Margaery.  I expect both their fates will be hideous, in the books.

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37 minutes ago, SeanF said:

It certainly should not follow that big age gaps have to be exploitative.  I'm married to a lovely woman who is fourteen years older than I am.

Agreed. I wish they had some skewed in the opposite direction for a change (older woman, younger man).

It's all about whatever story they are telling.

A common thing, to use the Jane Eyre example (and Sansa and the Hound/Beauty and the Beast is very like this story) is the man had an interrupted youth, something happened that has left him trapped, he's not able to move on from this, and then he meets the younger woman who is trapped by her youth, she's afraid to move on. This is the classic Beauty and the Beast story.

So they meet, and the places where they are stuck, they help each other become unstuck. She helps him see, and he helps her, too. His beastliness brings out the beast in her (her wild and free spirit), which helps her to fly (flying/bird imagery is used in both stories, as well as in Cocteau's La Belle et la Bete, which GRRM references). Something similar goes on in countless other stories.

So there's a reason they set these ages differently, and it's to tell a story.

Obviously the show had no clue about any of this, they are so superficial and just really bad at this, as we've said. This sort of thing is beyond them.

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2 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

What I didn't like about Arya and Gendry scene:

1. There was no actual story to go with it. As with all things on this show, they never actually tell stories. So there was no romance for Arya and Gendry, but hey, it was all about sex, so whatever. And yet, there was no sexual awakening story, either.

2. It was yet another GoT naked woman scene. She's the main character, so showing her desiring NAKED GENDRY would be showing her perspective. And let's go back to number 1, since there was no actual story so that's the least they could have done to sort of tell one.

3. Arya used Gendry like a vibrator, then tossed him aside. Book Arya would never have treated him that way. Also it's very anachronistic. Even though she's been through hell, she should have at the very least shown some uncertainty, since this was her first time. Unrealistic.

4. Arya, Arya, Arya! (In Jan Brady voice.) When is it Sansa's turn? Never. They made a woman all about what someone else did to her body in I Spit On Ramsay's Grave... but they never let the woman enjoy her body. Sansa has a great story along those lines in the books (a la Beauty and the Beast).

Anyway, in terms of older men and younger women, there are lots of these age gaps in period romances. There's a 20 year age gap in Jane Eyre, as well as in Daphne DuMaurier's Rebecca, for example. In Outlander, a 15 year old marries a 30 year old and has a very happy marriage.

Would I write it this way? Hell no. But when you are reading a book you didn't write, you go with the story or you read something else. What the authors are going for with these age gaps is an exploration of the experience vs. innocence theme. Who is wiser? Often the younger woman.

I don’t know, Jon Arryn and Lysa Tully’s marriage is Exhibit A of how an older man and younger woman match goes terribly, horribly wrong, as one of the reasons why it ended so poorly (with Lysa murdering Jon) was because Jon couldn’t provide for Lysa on an emotional level.

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3 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Their fates in the show were pretty hideous, Margaery getting blown up and Tommen committing suicide.

I think @Lord Varys is correct they’ll be Martin’s version of the princes in the tower, falling victim to Jon Con and the Sand Smakes.

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21 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Greyscale, spear, knife, or poison?...

It depends on how the events play out.

Poison if they have all the time in the world. Spear or knife if they are angry or in a hurry. Greyscale is only feasible if Tommen and/or Margaery are held hostage in JonCon's custody for a long period of time.

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titbits from latest FCKAD chapter: GOT "grew and grew until it6 ruled the world" (i thought mr. dunn had said "blew up the world" !). this is mostly aboyut nutter-fans. no one could enter chile b/c pilou (euron's actor) was in the airport. a chap phoned alliser thorne's actor saying he wanted him to call him "bastard". another chap had a king robert tattoo. someone else tried to cut off a bit of martin's hair (!).  they didn't want lena heady in a poster "no i don't want you, you're evil".. kit: "i'm jon snow. fan: "no, he's taller." a fan stalked dinklage when he bought underwear (!).  a hacker named Littlefinger broke into their account and tried to blackmail.

but now, here's the bad stuff: D&D did not film alternaten endings for the show, b/c it would "waste time and money". come again? haven't you been doing that all show long? weiss says they used to get a pleasure jolt every time they clicked on a positive comment,  which they would do "like coke-addled monkeys". and one chap managed to blarney his way onto the set, where he took pictures -- which he later posted as part of a "blistering critique" where he explained what he would have done better. (it probably *was* better, too.)

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