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The Fattest Leech

Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

So why did he complain about Robert being weak and ineffectual if he wants Jon to be weak and ineffectual?

Varys kinda forgot about King Robert.

The whole thing was so stupid though. At that time, Daenerys had done nothing to deserve Varys' sudden desire to follow someone else. If killing the Tarlys was really such a problem, that conversation would have come up in season 7.

 

And 300 pages. Oh yeah. It's so great to see how big this thread has gotten :D

Edited by Ghostlydragon

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2 hours ago, Ghostlydragon said:

Varys kinda forgot about King Robert.

The whole thing was so stupid though. At that time, Daenerys had done nothing to deserve Varys' sudden desire to follow someone else. If killing the Tarlys was really such a problem, that conversation would have come up in season 7.

 

And 300 pages. Oh yeah. It's so great to see how big this thread has gotten :D

It was bizarre to see the execution of the Tarlys portrayed as something awful a couple of episodes after Arya poisoned the Freys.

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3 minutes ago, SeanF said:

It was bizarre to see the execution of the Tarlys portrayed as something awful a couple of episodes after Arya poisoned the Freys.

…and after having heavily insisted on Randyll Tarly's vileness, cruelty then treachery (he kneels to Cersei).

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Just happened to see this Los Angeles Times interview with Charles Dance about his role as William Randolph Hearst in Mank.  Thought this part was especially interesting.

Quote

Hearst, as you play him, survives the film. But you’ve actually played quite a lot of death scenes over the years. More than your share, maybe?

I was thinking that the other day — that I’ve died in almost everything I’ve done. It would be nice not to die. There are a few things that I’ve managed to stay alive in — but most of the time, I’ve died a very ignoble death. Especially in “Game of Thrones,” that was quite a death scene, darling.

Ah, yes, Tywin Lannister gets skewered with a crossbow while on the toilet. What were your thoughts on how the series ended?

I was underwhelmed. I thought, “No, come on. Really, guys, you could do better than that.” But, never mind.

:D

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14 hours ago, SeanF said:

It was bizarre to see the execution of the Tarlys portrayed as something awful a couple of episodes after Arya poisoned the Freys.

The show flip-flopped on revenge quite a lot in the last three seasons, particularly regarding Arya; compare Arya killing Walder and poisoning the Freys and The Hound telling Arya not to follow his path in The Bells.

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I was at a friend's who was watching season 6 (vomit) and I did my best to stomach it but couldn't. Specifically, 'bad ass Ramsey'. It was so fucking disgusting and preposterous, the entire thing. This recently legimitised bastard kills his father, his step mother and his new born half brother and literally no one blinks an eye. Karstark is totally chill about it - this in a world where 'the North remembers', and power rests almost entirely on ancient/old houses and the legitimacy they carry. Like, Karstark is absolutely fine working with a bastard who killed his family - wtf would anyone trust such a little fucker? Hilariously, in the very next scene they show 'Robin' Arryn and Littlefinger, with Bronze Yohn Royce. The mere snapping of Robin's fingers and Royce would have been arrested or killed in his own castle. So, you're dismissing the power of established houses in 1 scene and then resting the next scene entirely on the basis of the same?? Ok. 

And then we have the entire shitfest of Umber and Rickon/Osha. I don't think Umber says anything except 'fuckers/fuck you/fuck them/cunts/I would've killed my own dad' etc. Hilarious. I suppose they were trying to be edgy and bad-ass as usual. Whatever semblance of quality the show had was taken 100% from the books. This is the result when they were past them.

Man, I hope if Martin ever finishes the series or even the next book, he has a completely different plotline for Rickon. 

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16 hours ago, Crixus said:

I was at a friend's who was watching season 6 (vomit) and I did my best to stomach it but couldn't. Specifically, 'bad ass Ramsey'. It was so fucking disgusting and preposterous, the entire thing. This recently legimitised bastard kills his father, his step mother and his new born half brother and literally no one blinks an eye. Karstark is totally chill about it - this in a world where 'the North remembers', and power rests almost entirely on ancient/old houses and the legitimacy they carry. Like, Karstark is absolutely fine working with a bastard who killed his family - wtf would anyone trust such a little fucker? Hilariously, in the very next scene they show 'Robin' Arryn and Littlefinger, with Bronze Yohn Royce. The mere snapping of Robin's fingers and Royce would have been arrested or killed in his own castle. So, you're dismissing the power of established houses in 1 scene and then resting the next scene entirely on the basis of the same?? Ok. 

And then we have the entire shitfest of Umber and Rickon/Osha. I don't think Umber says anything except 'fuckers/fuck you/fuck them/cunts/I would've killed my own dad' etc. Hilarious. I suppose they were trying to be edgy and bad-ass as usual. Whatever semblance of quality the show had was taken 100% from the books. This is the result when they were past them.

Man, I hope if Martin ever finishes the series or even the next book, he has a completely different plotline for Rickon. 

In the case of Karstark, he says outright that whatever loyalty he held to the Starks died when his father Rickard was executed.

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Fair enough, but the rest of my post is still pretty valid. 

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Posted (edited)
On 3/2/2021 at 6:48 PM, SeanF said:

Some readers think that Xaro speaks for the author, whereas it seems obvious to me that his arguments are being treated satirically.  Unless he’s changed his mind radically, Fevre Dreme gives the author’s opinions on the subject.

One of Jefferson’s motives for favouring a ban on the import of slaves was that it would give a boost to the Virginian economy, where they were bred for export to the rest of the South.  That said, Jefferson would probably have gone for Tyrion’s proposal.  He thought slavery wrong, but needed the income.  Others argued like Xaro or Aristotle, that it was a positive good.

 

I'm rereading ADWD right now and recently finished Dany's chapter in the fighting pits. GRRM goes out of his way to show us how much of a hypocrite Hizdahr is. GRRM has the character constantly talk to Dany about how slavery is outlawed in Meereen, thanks to their hard work, but frequently shows how that's not true at all now. From slavers being allowed to bring their slaves into the city, to a slave market being opened right outside the ways of Meereen, to the fighting pits themselves. The most blatant example of Hizdahr's hypocrisy and cruelty is when he planned to feed Tyrion and Penny to lions, without thinking anything of it.

So no, I don't believe Xaro is a self insert character. He's simply just another one of GRRM's many complicated villains.

Edited by sifth

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36 minutes ago, sifth said:

I'm rereading ADWD right now and recently finished Dany's chapter in the fighting pits. GRRM goes out of his way to show us how much of a hypocrite Hizdahr is. GRRM has the character constantly talk to Dany about how slavery is outlawed in Meereen now, thanks to their hard work, but constantly shows how that's not true at all now. From slavers being allowed to bring their slaves into the city now, to a slave market being opened right outside the ways of Meereen, to the fighting pits themselves. To most blatant example example of Hizdahr's hypocrisy and cruelty is when he planned to feed Tyrion and Penny to lions, without thinking anything of it.

So no, I don't believe Xaro is a self insert character. He's simply just another one of GRRM's many complicated villains.

IMHO Adam Feldman got it quite wrong to argue that the slavers were sincere in wanting peace.  Volantis is not sending an armada to talk peace, any more than Philip II did.

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On 3/2/2021 at 1:50 PM, Dracul's Daughter said:

So in 21st century there are people who would sell their freedom?:stunned:

Oh absolutely.

And I don't know if it makes me want to laugh or cry.

There are also plenty of people who say that they would rather die (or kill themselves) versus living and being poor.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

Oh absolutely.

And I don't know if it makes me want to laugh or cry.

There are also plenty of people who say that they would rather die (or kill themselves) versus living and being poor.

It’s a POV of complete privilege.  The testimonies of people who actually have been slaves show that freedom is something they value intensely. I think that for many people, being a slave is unimaginable, whereas it’s easy to imagine oneself being a wealthy freeborn person, and to think it very unfair such people get strung up when the slaves rebel.

It’s very much the two Ds’ outlook.

Edited by SeanF

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Posted (edited)
On 3/9/2021 at 2:54 PM, sifth said:

I'm rereading ADWD right now and recently finished Dany's chapter in the fighting pits. GRRM goes out of his way to show us how much of a hypocrite Hizdahr is. GRRM has the character constantly talk to Dany about how slavery is outlawed in Meereen, thanks to their hard work, but frequently shows how that's not true at all now. From slavers being allowed to bring their slaves into the city, to a slave market being opened right outside the ways of Meereen, to the fighting pits themselves. The most blatant example of Hizdahr's hypocrisy and cruelty is when he planned to feed Tyrion and Penny to lions, without thinking anything of it.

So no, I don't believe Xaro is a self insert character. He's simply just another one of GRRM's many complicated villains.

Of course, Hizdahr is a complete fake. The Green Grace sets him up as Dany's consort because he is the fellow with connections to the other cities and he can sweet talk pretty well.

But he hates Daenerys and everything she did, and looks forward to day he can put her and her dragons down. What he really is, he shows in the Pit when gets off on watching Drogon die, and later when Selmy basically gets him to confess he was involved in the poisoning plot (the line about about hot spices not agreeing with him which is not true).

The slavers never wanted peace with Daenerys - they cannot, because they need the slavery. While the dragons were still a factor - which they no longer seem to be after they are chained and fled - the Meereenese are afraid of Dany. But after that, they are determined to bring her down and Hizdahr, the Green Grace, and Reznak want to make the best of it by keeping the new Meereenese monarchy because that's a better system than the ineffective oligarchical rule they had before.

And the whole point of Dany's story is to show how weak she has become, how wrong it is to compromise with people who want her gone. Dany is basically her ancestor King Aenys in Meereen. She tries to please everyone but nobody actually wants that. They want her gone, like the Faith wanted the Targaryens gone.

It is actually pathetic what Hizdahr and the Yunkai'i do to Daenerys with that mocking Dany-like Harpy on the cake - they turn her into a plaything, somebody they no longer have to fear or even respect.

If Daenerys had continued on the path she was on when Drogon basically abducted her she would have met a very bad end even if nobody had poisoned her ... because in time she would also have lost the loyalty and support of the freedmen and Unsullied.

On 3/9/2021 at 3:32 PM, SeanF said:

IMHO Adam Feldman got it quite wrong to argue that the slavers were sincere in wanting peace.  Volantis is not sending an armada to talk peace, any more than Philip II did.

Yeah, that part of the analysis is dead wrong. Daenerys chose a side - the only side in this conflict - when she sacked Astapor. Getting second thoughts when she has made it halfway to the finish line - the abolition of slavery in all of Slaver's Bay - was a very grievous error. An error she may hopefully correct in time. Although I think her people in Slaver's Bay will do that for her, or rather people declaring for her, regardless what her opinion is on the matter.

The Volantene tiger soldiers just need her as a symbol for freedom, they do not need her or her dragons or anything tangible to just decide to revolt. And once they do, slavery in Volantis is all but over.

Edited by Lord Varys

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