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Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

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21 minutes ago, SeanF said:

The two stooges come over as having been actively malicious towards Emilia Clarke and Kit Harrington.  They spent Season 8, pissing on both characters that they played.

What character did they not piss on? Bronn? Tywin? Even Tyrion and Cersei who they adore ended up looking like idiots for the bulk of the time at the end.

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21 hours ago, Minsc said:

What character did they not piss on? Bronn? Tywin? Even Tyrion and Cersei who they adore ended up looking like idiots for the bulk of the time at the end.

Bronn’s the main one, they’re downright liars about Tywin being “lawful neutral”. Another is Arya since she gets the cool stuff going on with her such as killing the Night King even though she hijacked Jon’s purpose. 

Speaking of which, I was doing a rewatch of Avatar: The Last Airbender and I realized how Jon could have fulfilled his plotline by being the one to face the Night King. Major spoilers! 

Spoiler

In the finale, Team Avatar (minus the missing Aang) meets up with the Order of the White Lotus outside Ba Sing Se. The leader, Zuko’s Uncle Iroh, explains that Aang, as the Avatar, must be the one to face Fire Lord Ozai and defeat him from a political standpoint to show that the Fire Lord‘s (aka Phoenix King) were wrong. For instance, Iroh could defeat Ozai, but it would look like two brothers fighting over power rather than the Avatar putting Ozai in his place for upsetting the balance of the world.

So in the case of Jon facing the Night King, throw in a line that Jon is the only one who can face the Night King, because of the power in his bloodline.

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FIRE CANNOT KILL A DRAGON, CHAPTER 29. THE LONGEST HOUR AND A HALF AND I CAN'T SEE THIS RUBBISH SO BLEEAH. PART 1

"but had anyone understood in season 1 where the show would be heading, winterfell would have been put in a different spot and not a boggy sheep farm."

logistics hard enough w/out wading knee-deep in mud.

"when you factored in the amount of time the THRONES team spent filming the final season, the intensity of staging the final season, ... and the show's brutal outdoor working conditions, the obstacles faced by the show's cast and crew during season eight were, as NCW put it, 'unheard of'."

KH: what was a 1-day shot 2 years ago is a 5-day shot now. "consistently having to have your emotions that high, it became f***ing exhausting."

"arguably the longest consecutive battle sequence ever filmed -- an 82-min. episode."

boonioff: "having the largest battle doesn't sound very exciting. ... part of our challenge -- and really miguel's challenge -- was how to keep that compelling."

sapochnik: "at some point you exhaust an audience." "why, as an audience member, would i care to keep watching."

"... a variety of character-driven stories."

weiss: "story [driven] by character, not by how many swords and spears you can swing around." "most battles are the last 15 mins. of a movie for a reason. ppl lose interest."

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Posted (edited)

You know, I was kinda disappointed by the lack of fire/flammable used by the defenders in the Long Night. And not like they didn’t have flammable, just watch the next episode. They just had the fire trench, fire arrows, and nothing else; no pitch, no rolling a burning log or burning barrels like the Night’s Watch in Season 4 down into the wights. Now that would have been a cool visual; setting a series of barrels on fire and seeing it blow up a column of wights. 

... I just made an idea completely based on Rule of Cool. How did I do?

Edited by Angel Eyes

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Posted (edited)

It was a dark and stupid night.

To break up the monotony of special effects you couldn't see, they trotted out monotonous moments with "those faces" you could barely see.

Benioff/Weiss/Cogman were the Night King to the characters. They sucked all the life out of the characters, who did the predictable bidding of their masters.

"I'm just here to die" and "I'm just here to be a prop to this character they like better" and "I'm just here to {scream at a dragon}"... all the usual stuff.

And then of course, Arya Ninja Turtle. The WTF moment. Which was also the usual stuff.

All that money on absolutely nothing at all. They could have skipped it, and someone could have just said "Arya jumped out of nowhere and it's all over."

Edited by Le Cygne

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8 hours ago, Count Balerion said:

FIRE CANNOT KILL A DRAGON, CHAPTER 29. THE LONGEST HOUR AND A HALF AND I CAN'T SEE THIS RUBBISH SO BLEEAH. PART 1

"but had anyone understood in season 1 where the show would be heading, winterfell would have been put in a different spot and not a boggy sheep farm."

logistics hard enough w/out wading knee-deep in mud.

"when you factored in the amount of time the THRONES team spent filming the final season, the intensity of staging the final season, ... and the show's brutal outdoor working conditions, the obstacles faced by the show's cast and crew during season eight were, as NCW put it, 'unheard of'."

KH: what was a 1-day shot 2 years ago is a 5-day shot now. "consistently having to have your emotions that high, it became f***ing exhausting."

"arguably the longest consecutive battle sequence ever filmed -- an 82-min. episode."

boonioff: "having the largest battle doesn't sound very exciting. ... part of our challenge -- and really miguel's challenge -- was how to keep that compelling."

sapochnik: "at some point you exhaust an audience." "why, as an audience member, would i care to keep watching."

"... a variety of character-driven stories."

weiss: "story [driven] by character, not by how many swords and spears you can swing around." "most battles are the last 15 mins. of a movie for a reason. ppl lose interest."

Well, he got that right at least.

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6 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

You know, I was kinda disappointed by the lack of fire/flammable used by the defenders in the Long Night. And not like they didn’t have flammable, just watch the next episode. They just had the fire trench, fire arrows, and nothing else; no pitch, no rolling a burning log or burning barrels like the Night’s Watch in Season 4 down into the wights. Now that would have been a cool visual; setting a series of barrels on fire and seeing it blow up a column of wights. 

... I just made an idea completely based on Rule of Cool. How did I do?

Speaking of fire (and how does this not get bought up when the cool visual of the flaming swords comes up) how was it that not one flaming Dothraki sword set a single wight on fire? The winter conditions were a joke so there is no way the fire would have been put out by the weather but why didn't the Dothraki create a huge inferno that would have destroyed thousands of the undead?

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13 hours ago, Ghostlydragon said:

Speaking of fire (and how does this not get bought up when the cool visual of the flaming swords comes up) how was it that not one flaming Dothraki sword set a single wight on fire? The winter conditions were a joke so there is no way the fire would have been put out by the weather but why didn't the Dothraki create a huge inferno that would have destroyed thousands of the undead?

Well, the fact that the Dothraki planned to charge in there, with nothing to combat the wights seems pretty suspect...

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FIRE CANNOT KILL A DRAGON, CHAPTER 29. THE LONGEST HOUR AND A HALF AND I CAN'T SEE THIS RUBBISH SO BLEEAH. PART 2

sapochnik: 'the process of whittling down the script took a lot longer this time because D&D wanted to keep everything. we all wanted everything but were up against the reality of what we could achieve." wanted to relieve monotony of killing by having intercut w/ suspense/horror scene.

"... nothing ever goes precisely according to plan -- especially when filming outdoors in hostile weather." you need to be able to improvise, so he suggested a schedule of 11 consecutive night shots." then you can move the camera around.

to our knowledge no show had attempted a filming schedule like this one.

cunningham: "f***ing hell. this is a nightmare. it's like a deliberate attempt to f*** the whole thing up."

dave hill: "but the amount of logic we'd have had to bend to get jorah to the Wall and and get him to leave before [her tragic turn] -- there's no way to that blithely." [the square brackets are in the book.]

whether arya fulfilled the prophecy or melisandre encouraged her is unclear [this is the retcon where arya kills NK b/c she's going to kill ppl w/ .... eyes]

COTF "created a demon" to be NK. but hempstead-wright: "he's not a monster; he's a weapon who's gone badly wrong. he's an innocent man w/ a piece of glass plunged in his heart."

KH on azor aharya: "i like it b/c it gives arya's training a purpose." "it will frustrate some audience members ... but that's kind of THRONES." [what training?]

showrunners ruled out ice spiders b/c they probably wouldn't look good.

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1 hour ago, Count Balerion said:

FIRE CANNOT KILL A DRAGON, CHAPTER 29. THE LONGEST HOUR AND A HALF AND I CAN'T SEE THIS RUBBISH SO BLEEAH. PART 2

sapochnik: 'the process of whittling down the script took a lot longer this time because D&D wanted to keep everything. we all wanted everything but were up against the reality of what we could achieve." wanted to relieve monotony of killing by having intercut w/ suspense/horror scene.

"... nothing ever goes precisely according to plan -- especially when filming outdoors in hostile weather." you need to be able to improvise, so he suggested a schedule of 11 consecutive night shots." then you can move the camera around.

to our knowledge no show had attempted a filming schedule like this one.

cunningham: "f***ing hell. this is a nightmare. it's like a deliberate attempt to f*** the whole thing up."

dave hill: "but the amount of logic we'd have had to bend to get jorah to the Wall and and get him to leave before [her tragic turn] -- there's no way to that blithely." [the square brackets are in the book.]

whether arya fulfilled the prophecy or melisandre encouraged her is unclear [this is the retcon where arya kills NK b/c she's going to kill ppl w/ .... eyes]

COTF "created a demon" to be NK. but hempstead-wright: "he's not a monster; he's a weapon who's gone badly wrong. he's an innocent man w/ a piece of glass plunged in his heart."

KH on azor aharya: "i like it b/c it gives arya's training a purpose." "it will frustrate some audience members ... but that's kind of THRONES." [what training?]

showrunners ruled out ice spiders b/c they probably wouldn't look good.

Giving Arya’s training a purpose: so killing the Frey’s wasn’t part of that purpose? And then she does nothing with it for the last three episodes.

It’s stuff like this that makes me wonder if Arya was meant to die in this episode only for Benioff and Weiss to decide for her not to die, because she does Jack shit in the last three episodes; she might as well have been dead for all the purpose she had.

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8 hours ago, Count Balerion said:

FIRE CANNOT KILL A DRAGON, CHAPTER 29. THE LONGEST HOUR AND A HALF AND I CAN'T SEE THIS RUBBISH SO BLEEAH. PART 2

sapochnik: 'the process of whittling down the script took a lot longer this time because D&D wanted to keep everything. we all wanted everything but were up against the reality of what we could achieve." wanted to relieve monotony of killing by having intercut w/ suspense/horror scene.

"... nothing ever goes precisely according to plan -- especially when filming outdoors in hostile weather." you need to be able to improvise, so he suggested a schedule of 11 consecutive night shots." then you can move the camera around.

to our knowledge no show had attempted a filming schedule like this one.

cunningham: "f***ing hell. this is a nightmare. it's like a deliberate attempt to f*** the whole thing up."

dave hill: "but the amount of logic we'd have had to bend to get jorah to the Wall and and get him to leave before [her tragic turn] -- there's no way to that blithely." [the square brackets are in the book.]

whether arya fulfilled the prophecy or melisandre encouraged her is unclear [this is the retcon where arya kills NK b/c she's going to kill ppl w/ .... eyes]

COTF "created a demon" to be NK. but hempstead-wright: "he's not a monster; he's a weapon who's gone badly wrong. he's an innocent man w/ a piece of glass plunged in his heart."

KH on azor aharya: "i like it b/c it gives arya's training a purpose." "it will frustrate some audience members ... but that's kind of THRONES." [what training?]

showrunners ruled out ice spiders b/c they probably wouldn't look good.

When did bending logic ever bother them?

Cersei murdered half the nobility, the equivalent of the Pope and the Cardinals, and hundreds of the smallfolk, and nobody minded.  In fact, they turned out to cheer for Euron Greyjoy.  Daenerys arrived with overwhelming force and the ability to finish Cersei in 30 minutes, and pursued lunatic strategies on Tyrion's advice.  Jon & co. decided to venture North of the Wall to capture a wight, Gendry sprinted a hundred miles, and Dany flew North at the speed of concorde.  Then the Dead produced yards of chain out of nowhere.  They sent light cavalry charging at the Dead, and stationed the catapults outside Winterfell.  The scorpions were more effective than pom pom guns one episode, useless the next.  Varys tried to poison Daenerys just at the point they needed to defeat Cersei.

Compared to all that, Jorah being at the Wall is just par for the course.

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1 hour ago, SeanF said:

When did bending logic ever bother them?

Cersei murdered half the nobility, the equivalent of the Pope and the Cardinals, and hundreds of the smallfolk, and nobody minded.  In fact, they turned out to cheer for Euron Greyjoy.  Daenerys arrived with overwhelming force and the ability to finish Cersei in 30 minutes, and pursued lunatic strategies on Tyrion's advice.  Jon & co. decided to venture North of the Wall to capture a wight, Gendry sprinted a hundred miles, and Dany flew North at the speed of concorde.  Then the Dead produced yards of chain out of nowhere.  They sent light cavalry charging at the Dead, and stationed the catapults outside Winterfell.  The scorpions were more effective than pom pom guns one episode, useless the next.  Varys tried to poison Daenerys just at the point they needed to defeat Cersei.

Compared to all that, Jorah being at the Wall is just par for the course.

True to all that bar Daenerys flying North at the speed of Concorde. I think there’s a possibility that the squad was sitting on that rock for days; the wights and white walkers have taken 8000 years to return, a few days or even weeks are but a blink in their eyes. For them, watching the humans is entertainment ie the prologue to the first book where Waymar is fighting one and the rest are standing in a circle, amused by him.

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5 hours ago, SeanF said:

When did bending logic ever bother them?

Cersei murdered half the nobility, the equivalent of the Pope and the Cardinals, and hundreds of the smallfolk, and nobody minded.  In fact, they turned out to cheer for Euron Greyjoy.  Daenerys arrived with overwhelming force and the ability to finish Cersei in 30 minutes, and pursued lunatic strategies on Tyrion's advice.  Jon & co. decided to venture North of the Wall to capture a wight, Gendry sprinted a hundred miles, and Dany flew North at the speed of concorde.  Then the Dead produced yards of chain out of nowhere.  They sent light cavalry charging at the Dead, and stationed the catapults outside Winterfell.  The scorpions were more effective than pom pom guns one episode, useless the next.  Varys tried to poison Daenerys just at the point they needed to defeat Cersei.

Compared to all that, Jorah being at the Wall is just par for the course.

And the funny thing is when people made up excuses for the illogic. Well, you see, it could have happened that way because...

They relied on the audience to fill in the many holes in the plots. The plots were really just holes connected by "those faces" and special effects.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

True to all that bar Daenerys flying North at the speed of Concorde. I think there’s a possibility that the squad was sitting on that rock for days; the wights and white walkers have taken 8000 years to return, a few days or even weeks are but a blink in their eyes. For them, watching the humans is entertainment ie the prologue to the first book where Waymar is fighting one and the rest are standing in a circle, amused by him.

It can't have been days. Where was the food and water for that long? Where would they have gone to the toilet? The Hound along with some others would have gotten angry about being trapped there and would have tried to storm off.

It was a garbage idea back in 2017 and is no better now. 

Edited by Ghostlydragon

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jorah going to the Wall seems if anything a sight less illogical than most plot decisions in the last two ... arguably the last four seasons.

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17 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Giving Arya’s training a purpose: so killing the Frey’s wasn’t part of that purpose? And then she does nothing with it for the last three episodes.

It’s stuff like this that makes me wonder if Arya was meant to die in this episode only for Benioff and Weiss to decide for her not to die, because she does Jack shit in the last three episodes; she might as well have been dead for all the purpose she had.

arya was there so that maisie can make faces.

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16 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

And the funny thing is when people made up excuses for the illogic. Well, you see, it could have happened that way because...

They relied on the audience to fill in the many holes in the plots. The plots were really just holes connected by "those faces" and special effects.

And, for a time, I found myself doing so.  I think the wight hunt was the final straw for me.  

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more fun!

FIRE CANNOT KILL A DRAGON, CHAPTER 29. THE LONGEST HOUR AND A HALF AND I CAN'T SEE THIS RUBBISH SO BLEEAH. PART 3

lyanna mormont: "it's as if someone removed her fear gene."

carice van houten on melisandre: "she saved the day, so she's a bit of a hero." [did she?] "i wasn't able to nail the sentence. ... i got a bit cranky. i feel like i'd done 60 takes of that line."

"given that the night king is not in martin's books, the manner of his death was a major climactic decision that was left to the showrunners. they initially considered several hero candidates ..."

benioff: "it had to be someone w/ believable access to valyrian steal. we didn't want it to be jon b/c he's always saving the day." [is he though?] "ultimately it wouldn't have felt right if it was jon or the hound or brienne." [we're back to *feeling* right]

sam's book of dragonglass has a picture of arya's dagger. beioff again: "that dagger had been set up from the very beginning, and we knew arya was going to get it at the end of season 7 to kill littlefinger. it had to be arya. it goes back to the whole 'not today' thing."

weiss: "'what do we say to the god of death?' well, the NK is the closest emobdiment of the god of death."

wanted to make us think jon would do. there was an obstacle insurmountable save throuhg magic. arya has magic. [so does jon]

maisie williams: "mmmm, it should be jon though, really, shouldn't it? ... the hardest thing is any series you build up a villain that's so impossible to defeat and then you defeat them. it has to be intelligently done."

mel's prophecy that arya will kill ppl w/ eyes. hibberd blandly remarks: "the scene suggested arya was fated to kill the NK, although the order of the eye colours was changed to conclude w/ 'blue eyes' when melisandrer epeated the line."

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33 minutes ago, Count Balerion said:

"that dagger had been set up from the very beginning

When did that dagger even reappear?  I only remember it being in a few scenes in Season 1, before suddenly reappearing when Arya kills Littlefinger.  It is supposed to be the Catspaw blade?  How does Arya even get hold of it?

 

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