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The Fattest Leech

Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

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20 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I mean, the first conversation that needs to be had is the heroes asking Bran :”So how were the Others defeated the last time?”

Really not rocket science.

Do they actually know he can see that distant past? And: Were the Others ever defeated in the past of the show? All I recall is that there was a wall built back then, but there is no talk about a Last Hero and the other stuff there, so there is no need to assume the Others were ever truly defeated back then. And we don't really know what happened in the books, either. Were they truly defeated, or did the Children just put a leash on them? We don't know.

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29 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I mean, the first conversation that needs to be had is the heroes asking Bran :”So how were the Others defeated the last time?”

Really not rocket science.

Whoah

Whoooah

Whoooaaah...

Dude, get with it bro, it's called 'speed of plot'.

Seriously, can you imagine what the show, especially this final season would look like if they did not delete Bran for an entire season? Things would have been discovered by viewers and in-world characters a long time ago, and since this story is about shock and viewer reaction videos, that just wouldn't work.

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11 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Do they actually know he can see that distant past? And: Were the Others ever defeated in the past of the show? All I recall is that there was a wall built back then, but there is no talk about a Last Hero and the other stuff there, so there is no need to assume the Others were ever truly defeated back then. And we don't really know what happened in the books, either. Were they truly defeated, or did the Children just put a leash on them? We don't know.

Show Bran said that the Night King has tried to kill all of the three-eyed birds. That means Bran has this recurring knowledge of what when down and when, which means he should also have a pretty good idea of what worked and didn't. This information should be used as a starting point at minimum. For instance, Bran said no one tried dragonfire before. That's a start, but if it doesn't work ,what did?

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13 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Show Bran said that the Night King has tried to kill all of the three-eyed birds. That means Bran has this recurring knowledge of what when down and when, which means he should also have a pretty good idea of what worked and didn't. This information should be used as a starting point at minimum. For instance, Bran said no one tried dragonfire before. That's a start, but if it doesn't work ,what did?

That is just a bad show plot device to explain why the Lich King is going to expose himself (for no good reason). It has nothing to do with the book story.

If you recall, it was also never explained why the Lich King could put a mark on Bran or what this even means. How is it that being seen and marked by this guy can somehow destroy the spell protecting the cave? And if it is that easy why didn't the guy to the same thing a long time ago with Bran's predecessors? How can this even work when the Children are the ones who created the Lich King in the first place?

This doesn't make sense.

Bran is just a plot device to draw the Lich King and his dragon out. Nothing else. And this is a bad plot device because there is really no reason why the guy should prioritize Bran - he is a cripple, he cannot run, and he cannot fight, either. So why not first kill all the people who can fight die and save 'the memory of the world' for last? That's what I'd do because there is much more poetic justice to it when the last creature getting blue eyes were to somebody who counts. Not that Bran counts in the show. He is useless character since he was dragged out of the cave.

As for what transpired in the past - we don't know that there was a war in the past of the show that ended with human victory as far as I recall. Or has that ever been established in dialogue? What we do know, however, is that we have no clue how the Long Night ended in the books, so there is no reason to believe the Others were actually defeated. I mean, if they truly were, how is it that they decided to build that monstrous wall? Shouldn't them defeating them back then mean that they knew how to do it, causing them to be confident enough to repeat the trick later on? And that would mean no need for a magical wall.

My guess is that the Children the so-called Last Hero contacted back then took pity on him and mankind - to their own detriment, of course, because as before the First Men would still not honor their ancient pacts and continue to exterminate the Children some generations further down the road - and stopped the Others and/or that faction of the Children which might sit up in the Heart of Winter controlling them - using spells and magic and means they could still marshals thousands of years ago.

But knowing that they could not keep them in check forever they told the First Men that they had to build that wall and helped in the process of building it.

This would also put us in the comfortable position that the past does not give us any answers on the future of the books. It will answer origin questions and establish that the First Men brought this all on themselves - but it won't help our guys to figure out how to defeat the Others for good. That's something they will have to figure all by themselves.

Somehow I think George isn't going to go with the 'kill the head Other and then all of them die' routine. One wonders whether that's also going to work with Cersei and Euron. Is the Golden Company going to explode when they kill these two?

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1 minute ago, Lord Varys said:

That is just a bad show plot device to explain why the Lich King is going to expose himself (for no good reason). It has nothing to do with the book story.

If you recall, it was also never explained why the Lich King could put a mark on Bran or what this even means. How is it that being seen and marked by this guy can somehow destroy the spell protecting the cave? And if it is that easy why didn't the guy to the same thing a long time ago with Bran's predecessors? How can this even work when the Children are the ones who created the Lich King in the first place?

This doesn't make sense.

~snipped a little~


Welcome to the speed of plot :cheers:

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

That is just a bad show plot device to explain why the Lich King is going to expose himself (for no good reason). It has nothing to do with the book story.

If you recall, it was also never explained why the Lich King could put a mark on Bran or what this even means. How is it that being seen and marked by this guy can somehow destroy the spell protecting the cave? And if it is that easy why didn't the guy to the same thing a long time ago with Bran's predecessors? How can this even work when the Children are the ones who created the Lich King in the first place?

This doesn't make sense.

Bran is just a plot device to draw the Lich King and his dragon out. Nothing else. And this is a bad plot device because there is really no reason why the guy should prioritize Bran - he is a cripple, he cannot run, and he cannot fight, either. So why not first kill all the people who can fight die and save 'the memory of the world' for last? That's what I'd do because there is much more poetic justice to it when the last creature getting blue eyes were to somebody who counts. Not that Bran counts in the show. He is useless character since he was dragged out of the cave.

As for what transpired in the past - we don't know that there was a war in the past of the show that ended with human victory as far as I recall. Or has that ever been established in dialogue? What we do know, however, is that we have no clue how the Long Night ended in the books, so there is no reason to believe the Others were actually defeated. I mean, if they truly were, how is it that they decided to build that monstrous wall? Shouldn't them defeating them back then mean that they knew how to do it, causing them to be confident enough to repeat the trick later on? And that would mean no need for a magical wall.

My guess is that the Children the so-called Last Hero contacted back then took pity on him and mankind - to their own detriment, of course, because as before the First Men would still not honor their ancient pacts and continue to exterminate the Children some generations further down the road - and stopped the Others and/or that faction of the Children which might sit up in the Heart of Winter controlling them - using spells and magic and means they could still marshals thousands of years ago.

But knowing that they could not keep them in check forever they told the First Men that they had to build that wall and helped in the process of building it.

This would also put us in the comfortable position that the past does not give us any answers on the future of the books. It will answer origin questions and establish that the First Men brought this all on themselves - but it won't help our guys to figure out how to defeat the Others for good. That's something they will have to figure all by themselves.

Somehow I think George isn't going to go with the 'kill the head Other and then all of them die' routine. One wonders whether that's also going to work with Cersei and Euron. Is the Golden Company going to explode when they kill these two?

Back in Book 1 Bloodraven told Bran that he had to live in order to save the world. Bran seems to be at the very heart of it all. 

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9 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Back in Book 1 Bloodraven told Bran that he had to live in order to save the world. Bran seems to be at the very heart of it all. 

Bloodraven said Bran must live because winter is coming. He said nothing about (him) saving the world.

One assumes Bran has to play an important role, but he is far to insignificant a character in the books to be the great hero.

He might figure some things out they need to know and provide some magics to help them doing stuff but he isn't the great hero. In fact, if he was able to defeat the Others they would have long ago taken care of him. A greenseer might be a nuisance, and a very powerful greenseer might be even a pretty great nuisance, but if it was clear that Bran - or somebody like him *must never* reach the cave then there wouldn't have been just a bunch of wights at the entrance of the cave. Because those Others are not stupid. They have yet to make a single mistake in the books. Up to this point everything has been playing into their hands.

But this is all moot considering since nobody in the show ever built up Bran as a great or even important hero, nor did he do anything relevant (i.e. anything a diary or old dusty book couldn't have done, either) since he got out of the cave.

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14 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

So is the Arya-Gendry thing just another example of stupid Show fan service, or will it actually happen in the books?

Oh, the former, surely.

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22 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

So is the Arya-Gendry thing just another example of stupid Show fan service, or will it actually happen in the books?

Something between the two will happen in the books, but it won’t be like the books. It will be the “correction” to this line about having a son and a daughter (not sure how literal it will go). Plus, GRRM maybe kinda spoiled it a bit in 2016. 

A Game of Thrones - Eddard I

"They say it grows so cold up here in winter that a man's laughter freezes in his throat and chokes him to death," Ned said evenly. "Perhaps that is why the Starks have so little humor."

"Come south with me, and I'll teach you how to laugh again," the king promised. "You helped me win this damnable throne, now help me hold it. We were meant to rule together. If Lyanna had lived, we should have been brothers, bound by blood as well as affection. Well, it is not too late. I have a son. Youhave a daughter. My Joff and your Sansa shall join our houses, as Lyanna and I might once have done."

This offer did surprise him. "Sansa is only eleven."

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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Also can someone remind me what Mellisandre’s current status is in the Show? Did Jon send her away on pain of death or something like that, if I recall correctly? Or was she executed? Haven’t rewatched any episodes since they last aired and kind of forgot how her plot played out.

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1 hour ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Also can someone remind me what Mellisandre’s current status is in the Show? Did Jon send her away on pain of death or something like that, if I recall correctly? Or was she executed? Haven’t rewatched any episodes since they last aired and kind of forgot how her plot played out.

Yeah, Jon banned her from the North to appease Davos. She ended up at Dragonstone with Dany and IIRC, this was the last we saw of her. 

 

 

I'm looking forward to this. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Lollygag said:

Yeah, Jon banned her from the North to appease Davos. She ended up at Dragonstone with Dany and IIRC, this was the last we saw of her. 

 

 

I'm looking forward to this. 

 

 

Thanks.

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4 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Also can someone remind me what Mellisandre’s current status is in the Show? Did Jon send her away on pain of death or something like that, if I recall correctly? Or was she executed? Haven’t rewatched any episodes since they last aired and kind of forgot how her plot played out.

Adding to what @Lollygag said, while on Dragonstone she told Varys she was going to Volantis (I think?). He tells her she should not come back, and she says something along the lines of, “my fate is to die in this strange land, same as you”. 

Since that’s how the show rolls - people say x will happen, and then it happens - she will come back to die, and Varys is as good as dead as well. 

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2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Adding to what @Lollygag said, while on Dragonstone she told Varys she was going to Volantis (I think?). He tells her she should not come back, and she says something along the lines of, “my fate is to die in this strange land, same as you”. 

Since that’s how the show rolls - people say x will happen, and then it happens - she will come back to die, and Varys is as good as dead as well. 

Surprise Mel in Ep 3 as Varys dies? Probably :P

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Alright, Episode 2 down.

If episode 1 was a dumpster fire, episode 2 was the marshmallows roasted over that fire.  Sure, you'll get a nice blast of sweetness from it, but like all marshmallows, it absorbed the flavor of the fire it was roasted over.

I will say we saw some legitimate acting for the first time this season from someone not named Jamie Lannister, which was a pleasant surprise.  Even Danny managed to move her eyebrows a bit here or there, which hasn't happened in about three seasons, so that was pretty impressive.  In all honesty, this episode was better than the previous one.  It felt as if the actors were actually enjoying themselves for the first time in a long while.  Perhaps it's all the meetups and chit-chat, or perhaps the director loosened the reigns a bit, but something was definitely different.

Highlights:

Theon and Sansa reunion actually tugged at the heartstrings.  Who knew that could happen?  And Danny managed to look surprised rather than dully amused.  Bonus points.

Toromund arriving and immediately raising the eyebrows of appreciation while asking if the big woman was still around.

You know what?  Let's just call this episode the Eyebrows of the Seven Kingdoms.  It's like everybody watch season 1-3 of every Tyrion scene and decided to steal his best gimmick.  Which is fine by me.

Jamie and Brienne.  Despite the fact they were given a shit-sandwich level of dialog to deliver, they sold it by actually playing the parts and saved every scene they were a part of.  I mean seriously, "I never wanted to be a knight" immediately followed by "do you want to be a knight or not?"  Wordsmithery must not come easy to the Ds.

The group sitting around the fire talking felt mostly genuine, despite the garbage they had to spout.  Toromund's background story was ridiculously over-the-top.  When he said when he was ten he killed a giant I was just waiting for him to complete the sentence with, "with my cock."  I was actually shocked they didn't go there.  But it's alright, they immediately made up for it by him talking about sucking down massive quantities of giantess breast milk.  *SHUDDER*

Tyrion and Jamie having a moment was quite enjoyable.

Arya and Gendry felt rushed and silly, and Arya was way too pushy, but I suppose that's what they think is bad ass now and Arya is all bad ass all the time just because.

My main disappointment was that Toromund and Sandor couldn't get back together for another lesson on euphemisms for male genitalia.  I honestly have to admit that their moment last season inspired the absolute best worst lines of this entire series.

"Cock?  I LIKE IT!"

"Yes, I'll bet you do."

Shakespeare this ain't.

The conversation between the Night's Watch leftovers was fun, them joking about with each other like old times.

Jon got back to legitimately brooding again, which was all he did for about five seasons of the show so it's nice to have that back again.  NOT.

Danny literally saying her "entire life" was about the Iron Throne was a bit galling as there was nearly an entire life of giving less than zero fucks about the Iron Throne until she decided to give more than zero fucks because dammit I want mine, but whatever.

Varys, the actual smartest man there based on the show's history, gets nada/zippo/zilch.  Sure, why not.

I'm glad the Arya sex scene didn't get more graphic.  The scars they did show made absolutely no sense at all based on injuries we know she had, but who gives a crap?  We're not the least concerned with consistency of character, a couple Frankenstein level stitch jobs around her side instead of stab wounds in the belly are perfectly fine.

Brienne's little fit about Jamie always insulting her rang hollow, but at least she sold it.

Davos' soup kitchen scene was meh.  I get what they were going for, but it just fell flat for me aside from Gilly stepping in for a moment.

I'm not sure if this episode was actually better than the previous one, or if the first one lowered the bar so far that it was easier to swallow, but I didn't feel quite as meh'ed out this time around.  I'm glad we saw small glimpses of who these characters used to be before the impending murder/death/kill routine.

Speaking of which, did it seem silly how often everybody kept mentioning they were going to die tomorrow as if they were mentioning they were going to have to clean tomorrow?  No terror.  No fear.  No anger.  Just casual and reluctant acceptance.  I would have liked to have seen some variety here or there.  Not everybody is going to face that sort of situation with the exact same reaction.  Some will be hopeful, some will be terrified, some will be bemused, some will be angry, just SOMETHING to differentiate the people into individuals would have been nice.

Oops, I forgot.  These aren't characters anymore.  They're extensions of the Ds alter-egos.

I almost hoped during the fire slumber party discussion that they would come to the conclusion that if they were all going to die anyway, why not just give in and let themselves be taken so that at least the Night King's army would be strong when it got to Kings Landing.  But that was too much to hope for.

Here's to next week.  Bring on the dead!  I'm ready to see these cardboard characters turned to ash!

EDIT:

TOTALLY FORGOT!  Creepy Branbot the catch-phrase repeating media player on wheels.  Priceless.

Edited by Dragons Are Real

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13 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

That is just a bad show plot device to explain why the Lich King is going to expose himself (for no good reason). It has nothing to do with the book story.

If you recall, it was also never explained why the Lich King could put a mark on Bran or what this even means. How is it that being seen and marked by this guy can somehow destroy the spell protecting the cave? And if it is that easy why didn't the guy to the same thing a long time ago with Bran's predecessors? How can this even work when the Children are the ones who created the Lich King in the first place?

This doesn't make sense.

Bran is just a plot device to draw the Lich King and his dragon out. Nothing else. And this is a bad plot device because there is really no reason why the guy should prioritize Bran - he is a cripple, he cannot run, and he cannot fight, either. So why not first kill all the people who can fight die and save 'the memory of the world' for last? That's what I'd do because there is much more poetic justice to it when the last creature getting blue eyes were to somebody who counts. Not that Bran counts in the show. He is useless character since he was dragged out of the cave.

As for what transpired in the past - we don't know that there was a war in the past of the show that ended with human victory as far as I recall. Or has that ever been established in dialogue? What we do know, however, is that we have no clue how the Long Night ended in the books, so there is no reason to believe the Others were actually defeated. I mean, if they truly were, how is it that they decided to build that monstrous wall? Shouldn't them defeating them back then mean that they knew how to do it, causing them to be confident enough to repeat the trick later on? And that would mean no need for a magical wall.

My guess is that the Children the so-called Last Hero contacted back then took pity on him and mankind - to their own detriment, of course, because as before the First Men would still not honor their ancient pacts and continue to exterminate the Children some generations further down the road - and stopped the Others and/or that faction of the Children which might sit up in the Heart of Winter controlling them - using spells and magic and means they could still marshals thousands of years ago.

But knowing that they could not keep them in check forever they told the First Men that they had to build that wall and helped in the process of building it.

This would also put us in the comfortable position that the past does not give us any answers on the future of the books. It will answer origin questions and establish that the First Men brought this all on themselves - but it won't help our guys to figure out how to defeat the Others for good. That's something they will have to figure all by themselves.

Somehow I think George isn't going to go with the 'kill the head Other and then all of them die' routine. One wonders whether that's also going to work with Cersei and Euron. Is the Golden Company going to explode when they kill these two?

why do you call him the Lich King?

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31 minutes ago, Thinishter Goat said:

why do you call him the Lich King?

Because that's how he looks and that's what he is, isn't he? He controls all the undead and the other demons and as long as he exists they exist and do his bidding. He very much is the Lich King from WoW. This 'character' is so shallow that there is no reason to take his so-called given name seriously - which is just a ripoff from a character of George's who basically has nothing to do with this guy.

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So I assume Jon will be an expert Dragon rider in the next episode? He will ya know, know how to make the dragon spit fire and take out armies already right? because he flew one time pretty unsuccessfully he will now be just as lethal as Dany/Drogon right?

 

Also problems I am forseeing, why wouldn't the King WW just blast Bran with ice dragon fire? just light up the entire godswood instead of trying to kill bran by hand? this is the dumbest plan I have ever heard, just wanted to throw that out there.

Edited by Suzanna Stormborn

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