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Victor Newman

The First Night

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Preston Jacobs has a theory whereby the continued practice of the lord's right to the first night in the north produce a lot of unwanted bastards in a poor land.  The poor husbands of the poverty stricken north can barely afford to feed themselves without having to raise the bastard of another man under his own roof.  A lot of these babies were left out to die.  Outright killed.  Disposed of in a convenient manner. 

Fans built their own theory(ies) from this foundation and one go on to claim the Others are these bastards.   The Others are bastards coming back to take part of the land.  

I don't believe it but it is interesting.  Something must have given Allysanne reason to outlaw the lord's right and seal the bastard gate.  She gave the gift to the watch to create a buffer.  In other words, she did what she could to decrease the production of bastards and if such bastards are to happen, the disposal will happen away from the wall, where the Others can't take the baby.  

Whatever Allysanne's reason might have been no longer matter.  Whatever the origins of the Others may not matter at all.  What is clear is the northern lords cherish the Lord's Right to the First Night.  It's a disgusting practice.  But, for the sake of this talk, what if Roose Bolton decided to petition the king to legalize the practice again.  Tommen doesn't know any better.  Cersei doesn't care about the welfare of the common folk and neither does Jaime.  I don't think Roose would get much opposition from King's Landing.  This is a good PR move for him because the lords of the north cherish this.  

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5 hours ago, Victor Newman said:

Preston Jacobs has a theory

This was your first mistake. Back away while you still can.

5 hours ago, Victor Newman said:

 Fans built their own theory(ies) from this foundation and one go on to claim the Others are these bastards.   The Others are bastards coming back to take part of the land.  

The others taking babies south of the magical barrier that they can't cross? That's two

5 hours ago, Victor Newman said:

I don't believe it but it is interesting.  Something must have given Allysanne reason to outlaw the lord's right and seal the bastard gate.  She gave the gift to the watch to create a buffer.  In other words, she did what she could to decrease the production of bastards and if such bastards are to happen, the disposal will happen away from the wall, where the Others can't take the baby.  

DId you read fire and blood yet? 'cuz it seems like you didn't, and just read fan fic about it. 

5 hours ago, Victor Newman said:

  Whatever Allysanne's reason might have been no longer matter.  Whatever the origins of the Others may not matter at all.  What is clear is the northern lords cherish the Lord's Right to the First Night.  It's a disgusting practice.  But, for the sake of this talk, what if Roose Bolton decided to petition the king to legalize the practice again.  Tommen doesn't know any better.  Cersei doesn't care about the welfare of the common folk and neither does Jaime.  I don't think Roose would get much opposition from King's Landing.  This is a good PR move for him because the lords of the north cherish this.  

We only know of roose keeping up the practice 

Edited by Dorian Martell's son

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7 minutes ago, Victor Newman said:

Preston Jacobs has a theory whereby the continued practice of the lord's right to the first night in the north

Bait thread ya.

I like your avatar. Hans from the Rat Patrol. Lord's right means your boss fucks your wife while you stand by and listen and you can't do nuttin about it.

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5 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

This was your first mistake. Back away while you still can.

Beat me to it!

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Making legal a treasured northern practice like that would give Roose Bolton a P/R boost in the north.  He could win the most stubborn over if given enough time.  The deeds continued in secret and those sheep heads must have resented having to keep quiet about it.

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I could not help myself I had to search youtube and post what I found.

What I found was an american country singer singing a a song displaying rat patrol video.

Do with it what you will.

Circa 1966.

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5 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

The north kept the practice even though it was illegal.  It makes no practical difference but I suppose Roose could earn himself some stinky brownie points.  Where the Old Gods rule, old customs die hard.  It is a part of their religion.  

Perhaps you have not read Fire & Blood? There are a few paragraphs in there where it is clearly stated that the Targaryens practiced it even after Alysanne (Jaehaerys) ruled to end it. These Targs were breaking the King's peace by ignoring the law.

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On 12/12/2018 at 3:29 PM, Victor Newman said:

The poor husbands of the poverty stricken north can barely afford to feed themselves without having to raise the bastard of another man under his own roof.  A lot of these babies were left out to die.  Outright killed.  Disposed of in a convenient manner.

IMO Winter helped keep the population as manageable as possible.  Also, many old men were known to leave their homes when winter was coming in order to not be a burden.  As Old Nan tells us "on the other side were monsters and giants and ghouls, but they could not pass so long as the Wall stood strong."

On 12/12/2018 at 3:29 PM, Victor Newman said:

I don't believe it but it is interesting.

Might I shamelessly plug my theory of Craster's Sons in my sig line?

On 12/12/2018 at 3:29 PM, Victor Newman said:

Something must have given Allysanne reason to outlaw the lord's right and seal the bastard gate.  She gave the gift to the watch to create a buffer.  In other words, she did what she could to decrease the production of bastards and if such bastards are to happen, the disposal will happen away from the wall, where the Others can't take the baby.  

According to F&B

Spoiler

She held Court for the ladies and heard their complaints.  Once upon a time the Lord that took that right was a ladies dream.  Now they were nightmares and it was no longer an honor.  It was a horrible experience. 

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On 12/12/2018 at 3:29 PM, Victor Newman said:

But, for the sake of this talk, what if Roose Bolton decided to petition the king to legalize the practice again.  Tommen doesn't know any better.  Cersei doesn't care about the welfare of the common folk and neither does Jaime.  I don't think Roose would get much opposition from King's Landing.  This is a good PR move for him because the lords of the north cherish this.   

I don't think it's something that would win him a lot of love and loyalty.  It's rumored that House Umber still does it, though they deny it.  Great Jon is a captive and he was a staunch supporter of Robb.  He could not be appeased by something like that.  Especially since they probably still do it.  I would guess that Skagos and Mountain Clans don't give a rats ass what Bolton tells them they can do.  The Northern Mountain Clans are supporting Stannis for the Ned and I don't think something like this would be enough to even slightly sway their support towards Bolton.  Most importantly, the commons would hate him for it.  He already has too many ppl around him of unproven loyalty and his grasp on the North is shakey. 

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On 12/14/2018 at 7:38 PM, DarkSister1001 said:

I don't think it's something that would win him a lot of love and loyalty.  It's rumored that House Umber still does it, though they deny it.  Great Jon is a captive and he was a staunch supporter of Robb.  He could not be appeased by something like that.  Especially since they probably still do it.  I would guess that Skagos and Mountain Clans don't give a rats ass what Bolton tells them they can do.  The Northern Mountain Clans are supporting Stannis for the Ned and I don't think something like this would be enough to even slightly sway their support towards Bolton.  Most importantly, the commons would hate him for it.  He already has too many ppl around him of unproven loyalty and his grasp on the North is shakey. 

Perhaps it might win him a few.  Those northern people are so savage.  A lot of illegal things were happening anyway.  It wouldn't be a bad (well, morally it is) political move for Roose though.

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On 12/13/2018 at 3:11 PM, Clegane'sPup said:

I could not help myself I had to search youtube and post what I found.

What I found was an american country singer singing a a song displaying rat patrol video.

Do with it what you will.

Circa 1966.

This is more to my liking

 

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@Victor Newman film & television evaluation can formulate opinions.

I suppose in 2042 Kardashian circa 2018 will cast some relevance on society.

As to the lords night or first night --- rather barbaric.

 

 

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It is not right of the first night, it is the RITE of it.The Lord blesses the soil with his seed. Remember Garth? Yeah it dates back to him. He traveled with his sackbag of seeds throwing them around.

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9 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

It is not right of the first night, it is the RITE of it.The Lord blesses the soil with his seed. Remember Garth? Yeah it dates back to him. He traveled with his sackbag of seeds throwing them around.

I do remember Garth.  Spilling the seeds of his Nutsack is not the same thing.  It's not at all the same thing.  But I acknowledge the possibility of this rite being misinterpreted in some way by a barbaric people.  Myth is not necessary though.  Horny lords with the power to do as they wish will always lead to young, comely girls being taken advantage of.  

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I might be saying something stupid because I don t remember if this is explained in the text but doesn t it makr sense that the snowgate and the first night rights are related and alysane interfered in both matters because of it?

I mean, if a lord has the first night's right and the first born looks like the lord then most men would call him a bastard and prefer to send him to the wall instead of raising the boy. We are talking about a man's heir after all...

And if this was comon practice all these bastard boys could be sent to the same place-snowgate.

This could explained why allysane changed its name after she ended the first night's rights.

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14 hours ago, Victor Newman said:

I do remember Garth.  Spilling the seeds of his Nutsack is not the same thing.  It's not at all the same thing.  But I acknowledge the possibility of this rite being misinterpreted in some way by a barbaric people.  Myth is not necessary though.  Horny lords with the power to do as they wish will always lead to young, comely girls being taken advantage of.  

Garth did bless maidens though.

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