Why was Addam of Hull named heir to the Driftmark not Joffrey

[VVSINGOFTHECROSS]

Something that's always bothered me about the Dance is that, when Addam and Alyn are legitimised and Addam is named heir to the Driftmark, Joffrrey Velaryon is still alive. So, why is he not named heir to the Driftmark but Addam is? Why did Rhaenrya not remind Corlys about that?

[Vaedys Targaryen]

It's fairly well established that Joffrey wasn't Laenor's son and I don't think Rhaenyra wanted to shake the boat by commanding Corlys, arguably her most powerful supporter, to make Joffrey the heir.

[The hairy bear]

I doubt that anyone needed to be reminded of the implications of legitimizing Addam. Addam was 3 years older than Joffrey , so if Addam was to be suddenly made a legitimate son, he would suddenly come before Joffrey Velaryon. Alyn would pass before Joffrey too.

It can be seen as another indication that Corlys knew that Rhaenyra's boys were not Laenor. And in any case, it's not as if Joffrey would be left with nothing. As a queen, Rhaenyra could easily grant him any holding of her choosing.

[Bernie Mac]

4 hours ago, VVSINGOFTHECROSS said:

Something that's always bothered me about the Dance is that, when Addam and Alyn are legitimised and Addam is named heir to the Driftmark, Joffrrey Velaryon is still alive. So, why is he not named heir to the Driftmark but Addam is? Why did Rhaenrya not remind Corlys about that?

Because Joffrey is the Prince of Dragonstone and heir of Westeros. For the same reason Jaecaerys was not made the heir of Driftmark. 

That same year, across Blackwater Bay, the Sea Snake was stricken by a sudden fever. As he took to his bed, surrounded by maesters, the issue arose as to who should succeed him as Lord of the Tides and Master of Driftmark should the sickness claim him. With both his trueborn children dead, by law his lands and titles should pass to his eldest grandson, Jacaerys…but since Jace would presumably ascend the Iron Throne after his mother, Princess Rhaenyra urged her good-father to name instead her second son, Lucerys.

[VVSINGOFTHECROSS]

1 hour ago, Bernie Mac said:

Because Joffrey is the Prince of Dragonstone and heir of Westeros. For the same reason Jaecaerys was not made the heir of Driftmark. 

That same year, across Blackwater Bay, the Sea Snake was stricken by a sudden fever. As he took to his bed, surrounded by maesters, the issue arose as to who should succeed him as Lord of the Tides and Master of Driftmark should the sickness claim him. With both his trueborn children dead, by law his lands and titles should pass to his eldest grandson, Jacaerys…but since Jace would presumably ascend the Iron Throne after his mother, Princess Rhaenyra urged her good-father to name instead her second son, Lucerys.

Joffrey didn't become Prince of Dragonstone until after Addam and Alyn had already been found and legitimised.

[Bernie Mac]

1 hour ago, VVSINGOFTHECROSS said:

Joffrey didn't become Prince of Dragonstone until after Addam and Alyn had already been found and legitimised.

 

Visery's was still king when Rhaenyra urged her second son, Lucerys, to be made the heir of Driftmark. Later when both Viserys and Lucerys are dead Addam is mentioned as heir. It is pretty much the same situation.

[Maia]

7 hours ago, VVSINGOFTHECROSS said:

. So, why is he not named heir to the Driftmark but Addam is? Why did Rhaenrya not remind Corlys about that?

Because while Corlys had accepted Rhaenyra's sons, he still wanted his blood to inherit Driftmark, which is why both Jace and Luke were betrothed to Laena's daughters at a young age. But Joffrey was betrothed to a Manderly as part of the price for the northern alliance, so he couldn't marry Rhaena in Luke's place. So, Corlys insisted on his own natural sons inheriting instead - and he figured that Rhaenyra owed him that for his support and his wife's death in her service.

[Lord Varys]

I'm not sure this was done because Corlys necessarily wanted his own blood to follow him. The boys were legitimized as Laenor Velaryon's sons, not Corlys' sons. And that could easily have been done considering that Princess Rhaenys was already dead.

Nor is it implied that Baela and Rhaena were betrothed to Laena's girls because of the whole succession issue. It is implied that Rhaenyra and Laena may have had an affair back when Rhaenyra became 'more than fond' of her good-sister (Laena is not covered in detail, unfortunately, but there are hints she may not have been into men all that much). That could have been reason enough for them to decide to become a great family there. Back when those betrothals were made Laenor and Laena were still alive and Driftmark would have passed to one of them before it went to the next generation.

And as I've pointed out before the fact that Laenor's legitimized sons Addam and Alyn came before Joffrey Velaryon implies that legitimized bastards do come before their trueborn siblings if they are older than they are. That means that there would be little to no issue if a legitimized Jon Stark would lay claim to Winterfell before his younger siblings Brandon, Rickon, Sansa, and Arya.

This very much shows how right Catelyn was about the dangers of legitimizing bastards. Now Robb is dead and Jon Snow may indeed be able to steal the birthright of Catelyn's children - intentionally or unintentionally (because he simply doesn't know that they are still alive).

[VVSINGOFTHECROSS]

2 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

 

Visery's was still king when Rhaenyra urged her second son, Lucerys, to be made the heir of Driftmark. Later when both Viserys and Lucerys are dead Addam is mentioned as heir. It is pretty much the same situation.

Except Jacaerys is still alive and Prince of Dragonstone not Joffrey

[VVSINGOFTHECROSS]

1 hour ago, Maia said:

Because while Corlys had accepted Rhaenyra's sons, he still wanted his blood to inherit Driftmark, which is why both Jace and Luke were betrothed to Laena's daughters at a young age. But Joffrey was betrothed to a Manderly as part of the price for the northern alliance, so he couldn't marry Rhaena in Luke's place. So, Corlys insisted on his own natural sons inheriting instead - and he figured that Rhaenyra owed him that for his support and his wife's death in her service.

Interesting, I'm surprised Rhaenrya acquiesed so easily

[VVSINGOFTHECROSS]

54 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I'm not sure this was done because Corlys necessarily wanted his own blood to follow him. The boys were legitimized as Laenor Velaryon's sons, not Corlys' sons. And that could easily have been done considering that Princess Rhaenys was already dead.

Nor is it implied that Baela and Rhaena were betrothed to Laena's girls because of the whole succession issue. It is implied that Rhaenyra and Laena may have had an affair back when Rhaenyra became 'more than fond' of her good-sister (Laena is not covered in detailed, unfortunately, but there are hints she may not have been into men all that much). That could have been reason enough for them to decide to become a great family there. Back when those betrothals were made Laenor and Laena were still alive and Driftmark would have passed to one of them before it went to the next generation.

And as I've pointed out before the fact that Laenor's legitimized sons Addam and Alyn came before Joffrey Velaryon implies that legitimized bastards do come before their trueborn siblings if they are older than they are. That means that there would be little to no issue if a legitimized Jon Stark would lay claim to Winterfell before his younger siblings Brandon, Rickon, Sansa, and Arya.

This very much shows how right Catelyn was about the dangers of legitimizing bastards. Now Robb is dead and Jon Snow may indeed be able to steal the birthright of Catelyn's children - intentionally or unintentionally (because he simply doesn't know that they are still alive).

Interesting, so clearly the succesion isn't as clear as was once thought

[HexMachina]

2 hours ago, VVSINGOFTHECROSS said:

Interesting, I'm surprised Rhaenrya acquiesed so easily

Rhaenyra seems to have had a pretty good relationship with the Velaryons. Of course it breaks down somewhat towards the end of her life...

[Bernie Mac]

4 hours ago, VVSINGOFTHECROSS said:

Except Jacaerys is still alive and Prince of Dragonstone not Joffrey

And when Lucery's was petitioned to be made heir of Driftmark his mother was the Princess of Dragonstone, not Jacaerys. 

The two situations

Monarch: Viserys/Rhaenyra

Heir: Rhaenyra/Jacaerys

Heir of the heir: Jacaerys/Joffrey

Heir to Driftmark: Lucerys/Addam

 

[VVSINGOFTHECROSS]

9 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

And when Lucery's was petitioned to be made heir of Driftmark his mother was the Princess of Dragonstone, not Jacaerys. 

The two situations

Monarch: Viserys/Rhaenyra

Heir: Rhaenyra/Jacaerys

Heir of the heir: Jacaerys/Joffrey

Heir to Driftmark: Lucerys/Addam

 

I;m aware, just find it interesting Joffrey was overlooked when his brother was still alive

[Lion of the West]

One could also think that there could have been worries that if a second branch of landed dragon riders with blood ties to a previous ruler, and thus a potential claim, was allowed to establish itself it could lead to a new civil war with dragons down the road. Better then to have all or as many dragon riders as possible dependent on the king for their power and wealth. Not to mention to be able to be watched for any signs of sedition.

And example of this is how both Stannis and Renly could challenge Joffrey because the two uncles had their own seats and thus power bases. If both them had been living at court with their families and without independent economical bases to support themselves on, then they would have been far less able to cause problems for Robert's heir.

Thus the Targaryens/Rhaenyra probably saw what this could mean for the future.

And yes, a civil war broke out anyway, but that happened because the Greens ruled King's Landing while Rhaenyra had her own base of power away fro m the capital. If the Blacks had ruled the capital, there is unlikely to have been a civil war or at least not a war of that size. Likewise if the Greens had ruled King's Landing but Rhaenyra and her family had als been there in the Red Keep, no civil war.

[Universal Sword Donor]

On 12/15/2018 at 10:30 AM, VVSINGOFTHECROSS said:

Interesting, so clearly the succesion isn't as clear as was once thought

I can't say I ever thought it was clear:

Well, the short answer is that the laws of inheritance in the Seven Kingdoms are modelled on those in real medieval history... which is to say, they were vague, uncodified, subject to varying interpertations, and often contradictory.

https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/The_Hornwood_Inheritance_and_the_Whents