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Why burning corpses is practical in the Lands Beyond the Wall


norwaywolf123

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyrjDpkX6nA&t=0s&index=14&list=PLfTrJjNuBvbbafAN0ugdEutBNM0pMNSAj

It is hard to dig in permafrost as in the lands beyond the wall.

Thawing could throw up bodies and biomass. This could lead to the release of ancient plagues.

It is not certain that GRRM though of this(content of the video) but it is interesting.

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I've often thought about this, oddly enough, but don't know enough about permafrost and the tree-line to know what would be practical. My parents lived in central Alaska and the permafrost was a thing, but they were kind of on the edge of it and it wasn't a true deep-freeze, never goes away permafrost. There were plenty of trees. They would also get a summer where you didn't have to bundle up in furs. The Wall seems perhaps a bit colder than this, but we don't really see it at any season other than the lead up to winter.

At any rate, that would be the southern boundary of the wildlings and we see many trees so that's not a issue. There would be some problem in harvesting the wood. I'm remembering a story of my dad going out to cut down a Christmas tree with an axe and being surprised at how difficult it was to get a bite into the frozen trunk - like swinging at an iron pole. It's possible, but a lot of work. Of course saws would work better, especially with the friction, but still more work than we might think, especially with only bronze or stone readily available. It doesn't seem that the wildlings now have much (any?) obsidian, which might work better. And the farther north you go, you start running into the end of the tree line.

So if wood is a precious commodity, would they waste it burning a body? That takes a lot of wood to get a high enough temperature for long enough to destroy the body. I'd always imagined that they traditionally buried their dead in stone cairns and that burning was a newer tradition born of necessity. Ygritte mentioned opening half a hundred graves searching for the horn, so not all the dead were always burned.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/18/2018 at 9:17 AM, Gertrude said:

I've often thought about this, oddly enough, but don't know enough about permafrost and the tree-line to know what would be practical. My parents lived in central Alaska and the permafrost was a thing, but they were kind of on the edge of it and it wasn't a true deep-freeze, never goes away permafrost. There were plenty of trees. They would also get a summer where you didn't have to bundle up in furs. The Wall seems perhaps a bit colder than this, but we don't really see it at any season other than the lead up to winter.

At any rate, that would be the southern boundary of the wildlings and we see many trees so that's not a issue. There would be some problem in harvesting the wood. I'm remembering a story of my dad going out to cut down a Christmas tree with an axe and being surprised at how difficult it was to get a bite into the frozen trunk - like swinging at an iron pole. It's possible, but a lot of work. Of course saws would work better, especially with the friction, but still more work than we might think, especially with only bronze or stone readily available. It doesn't seem that the wildlings now have much (any?) obsidian, which might work better. And the farther north you go, you start running into the end of the tree line.

So if wood is a precious commodity, would they waste it burning a body? That takes a lot of wood to get a high enough temperature for long enough to destroy the body. I'd always imagined that they traditionally buried their dead in stone cairns and that burning was a newer tradition born of necessity. Ygritte mentioned opening half a hundred graves searching for the horn, so not all the dead were always burned.

Leaving them out for the predators to dispose of is the most efficient way.  Returning useful resource back into the environment.  Waste not want not.  Recycle the dead back into the food chain.  

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  • 4 weeks later...

Ignoring the "permafrost" factor, it would also be possible to just leave the corpses in cold storage until spring, when the ground softened. (If it never did, that would be another story.) Doubt that wood would be a "scarce resource", judging by George RR's descriptions of the north; this is a way preindustrial society. Forests cover the land in the north and the population is sparse.

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11 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Makes me wonder why the Starks don’t burn their dead, considering that the deceased might become wights to attack the population.

But have we seen bones dig themselves out of the ground or rise from their crypts and re-flesh, or at least re-animate? All the wights so far have been the fairly recently dead. Cremation was a Targaryen custom, at least in the last 300 years; it was also practiced north the the Wall by those with close and personal experience with the Others and their wights.

But really, that's a good question. The Starks have been kings and lords of Winterfell for 8,000 years, before even the building of the Wall (which Bran Stark the Builder was said to be responsible), and during the Long Night. They would have a long family history of understanding the Others. Yet they have always, as far as we know, entombed their dead - each with his direwolf and sword, no less.

I don't take this to mean the dead Stark bones will rise to fight with the living, by the way. Nor that they've got a dragon or several stashed down there in the tombs. I think there will be other explanations; I have little idea of what, though.

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46 minutes ago, zandru said:

But have we seen bones dig themselves out of the ground or rise from their crypts and re-flesh, or at least re-animate? All the wights so far have been the fairly recently dead. Cremation was a Targaryen custom, at least in the last 300 years; it was also practiced north the the Wall by those with close and personal experience with the Others and their wights.

But really, that's a good question. The Starks have been kings and lords of Winterfell for 8,000 years, before even the building of the Wall (which Bran Stark the Builder was said to be responsible), and during the Long Night. They would have a long family history of understanding the Others. Yet they have always, as far as we know, entombed their dead - each with his direwolf and sword, no less.

I don't take this to mean the dead Stark bones will rise to fight with the living, by the way. Nor that they've got a dragon or several stashed down there in the tombs. I think there will be other explanations; I have little idea of what, though.

Targaryens aren’t the only ones to cremate their dead. The Tullys do it too.

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