norwaywolf123 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyrjDpkX6nA&t=0s&index=14&list=PLfTrJjNuBvbbafAN0ugdEutBNM0pMNSAj It is hard to dig in permafrost as in the lands beyond the wall. Thawing could throw up bodies and biomass. This could lead to the release of ancient plagues. It is not certain that GRRM though of this(content of the video) but it is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Nice association. Watched the video with interest, but didn't think very much about what it meant for the tundra beyond the Wall! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Newman Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Like having the misfortune of dying during a Minnesota winter. It is hard to dig on frozen ground. The kings of the north were buried in the burrows to await the coming of the white walkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 I've often thought about this, oddly enough, but don't know enough about permafrost and the tree-line to know what would be practical. My parents lived in central Alaska and the permafrost was a thing, but they were kind of on the edge of it and it wasn't a true deep-freeze, never goes away permafrost. There were plenty of trees. They would also get a summer where you didn't have to bundle up in furs. The Wall seems perhaps a bit colder than this, but we don't really see it at any season other than the lead up to winter. At any rate, that would be the southern boundary of the wildlings and we see many trees so that's not a issue. There would be some problem in harvesting the wood. I'm remembering a story of my dad going out to cut down a Christmas tree with an axe and being surprised at how difficult it was to get a bite into the frozen trunk - like swinging at an iron pole. It's possible, but a lot of work. Of course saws would work better, especially with the friction, but still more work than we might think, especially with only bronze or stone readily available. It doesn't seem that the wildlings now have much (any?) obsidian, which might work better. And the farther north you go, you start running into the end of the tree line. So if wood is a precious commodity, would they waste it burning a body? That takes a lot of wood to get a high enough temperature for long enough to destroy the body. I'd always imagined that they traditionally buried their dead in stone cairns and that burning was a newer tradition born of necessity. Ygritte mentioned opening half a hundred graves searching for the horn, so not all the dead were always burned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only 89 selfies today Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 On 12/18/2018 at 9:17 AM, Gertrude said: I've often thought about this, oddly enough, but don't know enough about permafrost and the tree-line to know what would be practical. My parents lived in central Alaska and the permafrost was a thing, but they were kind of on the edge of it and it wasn't a true deep-freeze, never goes away permafrost. There were plenty of trees. They would also get a summer where you didn't have to bundle up in furs. The Wall seems perhaps a bit colder than this, but we don't really see it at any season other than the lead up to winter. At any rate, that would be the southern boundary of the wildlings and we see many trees so that's not a issue. There would be some problem in harvesting the wood. I'm remembering a story of my dad going out to cut down a Christmas tree with an axe and being surprised at how difficult it was to get a bite into the frozen trunk - like swinging at an iron pole. It's possible, but a lot of work. Of course saws would work better, especially with the friction, but still more work than we might think, especially with only bronze or stone readily available. It doesn't seem that the wildlings now have much (any?) obsidian, which might work better. And the farther north you go, you start running into the end of the tree line. So if wood is a precious commodity, would they waste it burning a body? That takes a lot of wood to get a high enough temperature for long enough to destroy the body. I'd always imagined that they traditionally buried their dead in stone cairns and that burning was a newer tradition born of necessity. Ygritte mentioned opening half a hundred graves searching for the horn, so not all the dead were always burned. Leaving them out for the predators to dispose of is the most efficient way. Returning useful resource back into the environment. Waste not want not. Recycle the dead back into the food chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dragons Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 I heard they also buried their in deep cave. Some Giants have own tomb that have personal effects that why in the books have the Freefolks looking for the Horn that bring down the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandru Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Ignoring the "permafrost" factor, it would also be possible to just leave the corpses in cold storage until spring, when the ground softened. (If it never did, that would be another story.) Doubt that wood would be a "scarce resource", judging by George RR's descriptions of the north; this is a way preindustrial society. Forests cover the land in the north and the population is sparse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Makes me wonder why the Starks don’t burn their dead, considering that the deceased might become wights to attack the population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandru Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 11 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: Makes me wonder why the Starks don’t burn their dead, considering that the deceased might become wights to attack the population. But have we seen bones dig themselves out of the ground or rise from their crypts and re-flesh, or at least re-animate? All the wights so far have been the fairly recently dead. Cremation was a Targaryen custom, at least in the last 300 years; it was also practiced north the the Wall by those with close and personal experience with the Others and their wights. But really, that's a good question. The Starks have been kings and lords of Winterfell for 8,000 years, before even the building of the Wall (which Bran Stark the Builder was said to be responsible), and during the Long Night. They would have a long family history of understanding the Others. Yet they have always, as far as we know, entombed their dead - each with his direwolf and sword, no less. I don't take this to mean the dead Stark bones will rise to fight with the living, by the way. Nor that they've got a dragon or several stashed down there in the tombs. I think there will be other explanations; I have little idea of what, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 46 minutes ago, zandru said: But have we seen bones dig themselves out of the ground or rise from their crypts and re-flesh, or at least re-animate? All the wights so far have been the fairly recently dead. Cremation was a Targaryen custom, at least in the last 300 years; it was also practiced north the the Wall by those with close and personal experience with the Others and their wights. But really, that's a good question. The Starks have been kings and lords of Winterfell for 8,000 years, before even the building of the Wall (which Bran Stark the Builder was said to be responsible), and during the Long Night. They would have a long family history of understanding the Others. Yet they have always, as far as we know, entombed their dead - each with his direwolf and sword, no less. I don't take this to mean the dead Stark bones will rise to fight with the living, by the way. Nor that they've got a dragon or several stashed down there in the tombs. I think there will be other explanations; I have little idea of what, though. Targaryens aren’t the only ones to cremate their dead. The Tullys do it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandru Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 8 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: Targaryens aren’t the only ones to cremate their dead. The Tullys do it too. You're right, of course! I forgot Lord Hoster's Viking funeral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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