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The Martells of Fire and Blood Part 1 [Spoilers]


Fire Eater

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This topic is pretty self-explanatory. This is all about the Martells. I think we get a dynamic of “dry” Martells and “wet” Martells. The pre-Nymeria Martells were known for caution while Nymeria was bold and adventurous. “Dry” Martells follow the patient, cautious approach such as Doran. Then we have the “wet” Martells who are bold, reckless and adventurous such as Arianne, Oberyn, and the Sand Snakes.

Meria is the first one we meet. She is easily a wet Martell. She doesn't lack for intelligence in being the only one smart enough to use guerrilla warfare against the dragons. However, her actions like throwing Lord Rosby out the window, and letting captured knights be tortured if it is true manages to take points off. It doesn't take a lot to see that mistreatment of highborn prisoners-of-war would result in their families howling for vengeance, especially with Aegon's Hand and only close friend losing a hand. Although, to be fair for the last one, she wasn't present when Wyl did that. It only resulted in making the Dornish situation worse. 

Nymor is a dry Martell. He manages to achieve the Martells' aim of ending the war in a way his mother couldn't: through diplomacy. What Meria couldn't win with spears, Nymor won with a letter. 

Deria is a dry Martell like her father. Her reign is marked by celebrating an anniversary of the peace with Aegon I and Aenys. She also gave covert support to the first Vulture King while denouncing him in public. It reminds one of Doran locking up the Sand Snakes only to be secretly supporting the Targaryen cause against the Lannisters. 

Morion is a wet Martell in the extreme, in that he is worse than Oberyn and even, the Sand Snakes. He departs from his forebears in waging not a war to defend Dorne from Targaryen invaders, but invading the Targaryen kingdom. He thought he had a chance at conquering the stormlands against the rest of the Seven Kingdoms combined and the Targaryens' dragons, which he thought he could counter with scorpions and crossbows. He was raised on stories of Dornish resistance to Aegon and his sisters. He got stories of glory, but missed the parts that would have made him think twice. For starters, the grievous price Dorne paid with every castle burned in dragonflame. Meraxes being killed by a scorpion amounts more to pure luck since scorpions are siege weapons designed for large, stationary targets and are difficult to effectively aim, especially against a moving target in the sky covered in armored scales. It was a one in a million shot with the bolt firing from the exact right place at the exact right time. He didn't even concern himself with potential retaliation from the Targaryens for the invasion. The result was the most lopsided, disastrous and humiliating defeat in Dornish history: every man fielded in the Dornish army was killed while the Targaryens got zero casualties. It wasn't a battle, it wasn't even a slaughter, it was a barbecue. For all intents, and purposes I'm calling the battle "The Fishfry." His Fishfry earns him the status of the DUMBEST Prince of Dorne if not the dumbest Martell, in history. 

Qoren may have fought Daemon in the Stepstones to avoid an old rival family from gaining control of a sea lane that has been vital for Dornish trade and potentially threaten Dorne form the Narrow Sea if Dorne ever wars with the Targaryens again. However, he stayed out of the Dance of Dragons. The memory of Aegon's Conquest and the more recent Fishfry no doubt influenced his decision. I think his descendant Arianne will likely get herself involved. He also expanded Dornish territory by taking a few of the Stepstones. although I don't know how long Dorne held onto them. 

Aliandra reminds me a lot of Arianne. Encouraging her lords to raid their neighbor is definitely a wet Martell thing. She also seems attracted to Oakenfist to the point that she gives him aid, and being attracted to adventurous guys with Valyrian features is definitely in line with Arianne. 

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The Fish Fry LOL man what a name for a "battle" I like it. Yea he was an utter fool did he not read history to see how the Dornish combated the dragons.

As with every house we get alot of different types of characters but i tell you i'm shocked that more Dornish didn't hate Meria i mean they even described Dorne as a wasteland after Aegon and Visenya were done with it. Imagine living through that no trade had to live in a cave for years and when you think you can rebuild your home more fire comes. Plus you can now see the sand you are used to become glass. That's just utterly terrifying makes me appreciate Torrehen Stark even more and the North had more flamable substances. 

Deria should be lucky Aegon was the type of King that honors guest rights because man if Visenya was the one that greeted her i don't think she would have went back home. I liked she never dared backed anyone while Aegon reigned too.

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6 hours ago, Destiny Arrives said:

The Fish Fry LOL man what a name for a "battle" I like it. Yea he was an utter fool did he not read history to see how the Dornish combated the dragons.

As with every house we get alot of different types of characters but i tell you i'm shocked that more Dornish didn't hate Meria i mean they even described Dorne as a wasteland after Aegon and Visenya were done with it. Imagine living through that no trade had to live in a cave for years and when you think you can rebuild your home more fire comes. Plus you can now see the sand you are used to become glass. That's just utterly terrifying makes me appreciate Torrehen Stark even more and the North had more flamable substances. 

Deria should be lucky Aegon was the type of King that honors guest rights because man if Visenya was the one that greeted her i don't think she would have went back home. I liked she never dared backed anyone while Aegon reigned too.

Regarding Meria, I think the Dornish placed more blame on the Targaryens since they were the invaders burning them in dragonflame. There is also the "rally around the flag" effect. 

Deria never backed anyone publicly is what you mean. However, covertly is a different story. She was smart enough to keep her actions hidden. 

 

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8 hours ago, Fire Eater said:

Regarding Meria, I think the Dornish placed more blame on the Targaryens since they were the invaders burning them in dragonflame. There is also the "rally around the flag" effect. 

Deria never backed anyone publicly is what you mean. However, covertly is a different story. She was smart enough to keep her actions hidden. 

 

I think the Targs missed a beat there, surely pr would've turned the situation on the Martells stubbroness

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I don't think such a categorization takes into account the later targaryenization of the Martells - the innovation that came to form Martell policies from Maron's descendants onwards came with Princess Daenerys and the discovery she made at the Water Gardens. That's when the highest goal of the policies of the Princes of Dorne became the good of their people, not their own petty ambitions and feuds.

And it is very notable that this was both Doran's and Oberyn's goal, never mind the fact that they had different ways of accomplishing that.

Historically, the Martells before Daenerys seem to have had different priorities.

Also, it seems quite clear that the traditional Doran-like caution of the pre-Rhoynar Martells was not exactly absent in Nymeria considering she was actually opposing Prince Garin's reckless campaign to defy the dragons. Nymeria was a strong and capable ruler but she wasn't reckless nor would I describe her as overly adventurous. She did what was necessary to save her people. Under other circumstances she may have lived out a quiet life in her city.

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11 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I don't think such a categorization takes into account the later targaryenization of the Martells - the innovation that came to form Martell policies from Maron's descendants onwards came with Princess Daenerys and the discovery she made at the Water Gardens. That's when the highest goal of the policies of the Princes of Dorne became the good of their people, not their own petty ambitions and feuds.

And it is very notable that this was both Doran's and Oberyn's goal, never mind the fact that they had different ways of accomplishing that.

Historically, the Martells before Daenerys seem to have had different priorities.

Also, it seems quite clear that the traditional Doran-like caution of the pre-Rhoynar Martells was not exactly absent in Nymeria considering she was actually opposing Prince Garin's reckless campaign to defy the dragons. Nymeria was a strong and capable ruler but she wasn't reckless nor would I describe her as overly adventurous. She did what was necessary to save her people. Under other circumstances she may have lived out a quiet life in her city.

Try staying to the topic please of the Martells in Fire and Blood. Any thought?

I never said Nymeria was reckless, just bold and adventurous. Those two traits led her people to safe haven. They worked to save them from the Valyrians the first time. 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Fire Eater said:

Try staying to the topic please of the Martells in Fire and Blood. Any thought?

I never said Nymeria was reckless, just bold and adventurous. Those two traits led her people to safe haven. They worked to save them from the Valyrians the first time.

And I don't think your arbitrary categorization there seem to have much merit. I'd not describe Nymeria as adventurous or connect adventurous/bold tendencies in the FaB Martells to her.

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On 12/18/2018 at 10:07 AM, Lord Varys said:

And I don't think your arbitrary categorization there seem to have much merit. I'd not describe Nymeria as adventurous or connect adventurous/bold tendencies in the FaB Martells to her.

IMO, it takes a bold, adventurous spirit to do what she did, take her entire people out of their homeland in search of a new one as well as lead armies in battle. The term adventurous itself means "willing to take risks or to try out new methods, ideas, or experiences" according to the Oxford Dictionary. 

And again, do you actually have anything to say at all about the Martells in FaB? That is what this topic is about. 

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Just now, Fire Eater said:

That is your opinion, but  again, do you actually have anything to say at all about the Martells in FaB? Keep to the topic.

The topic as per your opening post is about the Martells in those categories you gave. Aside from pointing out that there is no Qorion Martell in FaB I don't have anything to offer.

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2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The topic as per your opening post is about the Martells in those categories you gave. Aside from pointing out that there is no Qorion Martell in FaB I don't have anything to offer.

The topic is about the Martells in FaB. There are a few where I don't even apply the categorization. 

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