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divica

Victarion hand and fireworms

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So some worms can be used to treat wounds and eat dead tissues in order to avoid infection.

In FaB we learned that fireworms existed.

So it makes sense that moqorro as a creepy r'hllor priest that in general are obecessed with fire would know about this worms (creative way of burning people…).

Therefore when he treats victarion infected hand it makes sense for him to use fireworms to eat the infected tissues and as a secondary effect we see victarion's new fuming hand.

The interesting part is if like aerea there are eggs of this worms inside victarion's hand and when they hatch will burn victarion from the inside out, after all moqorro has seen glory for victarion in his fires...

Quote

The black priest bowed his head. "There is no need. The Lord of Light has shown me your worth, lord Captain. Every night in my fires I glimpse the glory that awaits you."

what do you guys think?

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Not bad. Surely within the realm of possibility. It never occurred to me that the "glory" that Moq sees for Victarian might not be victory and reknown but some kind of glorious fire-related death, like Alester Florent.

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Uh, no. In my opinion. The "fireworms" of ancient Valyria were more "wyrms"; that is, akin to and some say the ancestors of dragons. Probably pretty big, at least dog-sized. I've seen no indication that they still exist, much less are routinely carried around by Red Priests.

We know that R'hllor's messengers can perform actual magic (in addition to their innumerable magician tricks). It makes more sense to me to assume Moqorro used R'hllor-powered magic on Viccy, and not a relatively simple home remedy akin to putting maggots into a wound.

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1 hour ago, zandru said:

Uh, no. In my opinion. The "fireworms" of ancient Valyria were more "wyrms"; that is, akin to and some say the ancestors of dragons. Probably pretty big, at least dog-sized. I've seen no indication that they still exist, much less are routinely carried around by Red Priests.

We know that R'hllor's messengers can perform actual magic (in addition to their innumerable magician tricks). It makes more sense to me to assume Moqorro used R'hllor-powered magic on Viccy, and not a relatively simple home remedy akin to putting maggots into a wound.

From the description of what happened to aerea the fireworms were small because there were several of them inside her burning her from inside.

In regards to moqorro carrying them, he can have seen in a vision he would need them or the priest might have learned of a way keep them asleep indefinitly so moqorro usually carries some around with him...

And we have seen no magic from the priests that can heal and burn the flesh. Besides, if it was that simple maybe george wouldn t have done it beyind a closed door without explaning what was happening.

On the other hand, it just fits so well that a fireworm was used to treat the hand's infection and that the hand became burned because of it... and it is one of the habits of the fire priests to use things that people don t know about and say that they are doing magic.

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1 hour ago, zandru said:

Uh, no. In my opinion. The "fireworms" of ancient Valyria were more "wyrms"; that is, akin to and some say the ancestors of dragons. Probably pretty big, at least dog-sized. I've seen no indication that they still exist, much less are routinely carried around by Red Priests.

We know that R'hllor's messengers can perform actual magic (in addition to their innumerable magician tricks). It makes more sense to me to assume Moqorro used R'hllor-powered magic on Viccy, and not a relatively simple home remedy akin to putting maggots into a wound.

 

Interesting theory, but to expand on it a little bit - 

Since we know that dragons got smaller and smaller before eventually dying out (by all accounts until Dany came along), might we surmise that if "fireworms" are related to dragons that they too got smaller and smaller until they were the size of maggots?

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This is interesting.  I've always wondered what kind of "magic" was at play with Vic's burned hand.  I think it's a possibility for sure.  I know there is some theorizing that Vic died in that chapter as the POV switches to omniscient while Moqorro heals the hand.  It is certainly an interesting theory, I am not sure if we get any other POVs that suddenly switch like that.  And then you could read Moqorro's "your death is with us now" more literally, as Vic is about to die right that instant and Moqorro is about to resurrect him.

As to the OP, my only issue with it is that I've always liked the idea of the "glory" Moqorro mentions being Vic getting Quentyned, i.e. roasted by a dragon.  It sort of fits really well with Vic being dumb and comedic and having these misunderstandings of what words and phrases mean like "I will sail the Dothraki sea" and others.  But to to the OP's point, Vic being burned from the inside out due to the fireworms is almost equally as tragic and again, maybe that would make Moqorro's "your death is with us now, my lord.  Give me your hand." make perfect sense as Moqorro is literally about to place a time-bomb in Vic's hand.  

I definitely think that the "glory" that awaits Vic is of the tragicomedic variety and not actual glory.  

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3 minutes ago, Tagganaro said:

This is interesting.  I've always wondered what kind of "magic" was at play with Vic's burned hand.  I think it's a possibility for sure.  I know there is some theorizing that Vic died in that chapter as the POV switches to omniscient while Moqorro heals the hand.  It is certainly an interesting theory, I am not sure if we get any other POVs that suddenly switch like that.  And then you could read Moqorro's "your death is with us now" more literally, as Vic is about to die right that instant and Moqorro is about to resurrect him.

As to the OP, my only issue with it is that I've always liked the idea of the "glory" Moqorro mentions being Vic getting Quentyned, i.e. roasted by a dragon.  It sort of fits really well with Vic being dumb and comedic and having these misunderstandings of what words and phrases mean like "I will sail the Dothraki sea" and others.  But to to the OP's point, Vic being burned from the inside out due to the fireworms is almost equally as tragic and again, maybe that would make Moqorro's "your death is with us now, my lord.  Give me your hand." make perfect sense as Moqorro is literally about to place a time-bomb in Vic's hand.  

I definitely think that the "glory" that awaits Vic is of the tragicomedic variety and not actual glory.  

I like the notion of Vic being literally burned from the inside out because his whole motivation stems from an inner burning to best his brother. His experiences with the wife he killed and Euron has figuratively been burning him up inside this whole time.

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8 hours ago, zandru said:

Uh, no. In my opinion. The "fireworms" of ancient Valyria were more "wyrms"; that is, akin to and some say the ancestors of dragons. Probably pretty big, at least dog-sized. I've seen no indication that they still exist, much less are routinely carried around by Red Priests.

We know that R'hllor's messengers can perform actual magic (in addition to their innumerable magician tricks). It makes more sense to me to assume Moqorro used R'hllor-powered magic on Viccy, and not a relatively simple home remedy akin to putting maggots into a wound.

Yeah, I'm thinking more like the sand worms of Dune than the squiggly pink things on my driveway after it rains. 

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3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Yeah, I'm thinking more like the sand worms of Dune than the squiggly pink things on my driveway after it rains. 

Funny you should say that. I've had a thing written up for more than 2 years that explores exactly this idea.

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18 hours ago, divica said:

So some worms can be used to treat wounds and eat dead tissues in order to avoid infection.

In FaB we learned that fireworms existed.

So it makes sense that moqorro as a creepy r'hllor priest that in general are obecessed with fire would know about this worms (creative way of burning people…).

Therefore when he treats victarion infected hand it makes sense for him to use fireworms to eat the infected tissues and as a secondary effect we see victarion's new fuming hand.

The interesting part is if like aerea there are eggs of this worms inside victarion's hand and when they hatch will burn victarion from the inside out, after all moqorro has seen glory for victarion in his fires...

what do you guys think?

 

I'm not familiar with worms being used to treat wounds.  I know that maggots were sometimes used to treat wounds in the past and may even have been proven to speed the healing of wounds but maggots are the larva of flies.  You are suggesting that Moqorro was using tiny fireworms to treat Victarion's hand but there are no fireworms in the books.  There are however firewyrms, but they don't appear to be related to worms or maggots.  They are described as being more like dragons that lack wings and the wiki states that young firewyrms were the size of a man's arm. 

I'm not sure if I understand what your are trying to say in the bolded part above?

 

11 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Not bad. Surely within the realm of possibility. It never occurred to me that the "glory" that Moq sees for Victarian might not be victory and reknown but some kind of glorious fire-related death, like Alester Florent.

 

That is my take when I read this part of the story.  Victarion imagines his own personal glory but the glory that Moqorro imagines for him is likely quite different (but probably spectacular in a fiery, burning sort of way).

 

11 hours ago, zandru said:

Uh, no. In my opinion. The "fireworms" of ancient Valyria were more "wyrms"; that is, akin to and some say the ancestors of dragons. Probably pretty big, at least dog-sized. I've seen no indication that they still exist, much less are routinely carried around by Red Priests.

We know that R'hllor's messengers can perform actual magic (in addition to their innumerable magician tricks). It makes more sense to me to assume Moqorro used R'hllor-powered magic on Viccy, and not a relatively simple home remedy akin to putting maggots into a wound.

 

I agree 100%

 

43 minutes ago, M_Tootles said:

Funny you should say that. I've had a thing written up for more than 2 years that explores exactly this idea.

 

Two years?  Please share.

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3 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

Two years?  Please share.

I'm finally starting to post all the stuff I've got in the hopper. (On reddit, and then on my blog. I might start cross-posting stuff here, too.) It's pretty far down in the queue.

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Actually, one can also read it the other way around:

Spoiler

Aerea was never in Valyria but only a victim of a magic. R'hllorist or not.

(Please do note that magic was not gone by then - Dragons still existed)

In deed:

Spoiler

the 'worms' died in the ice bath, but we don't hear anything about their corpses' disposal.

Since they were such horrendous creatures, it would be something that Barth would have done with extreme care and have notes about.

So they may not be actual beings.

Anyway, I haven't finished reading F&B. Please, do tell me if I'm missing any important detail.

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On 12/19/2018 at 3:07 AM, divica said:

So some worms can be used to treat wounds and eat dead tissues in order to avoid infection.

In FaB we learned that fireworms existed.

So it makes sense that moqorro as a creepy r'hllor priest that in general are obecessed with fire would know about this worms (creative way of burning people…).

Therefore when he treats victarion infected hand it makes sense for him to use fireworms to eat the infected tissues and as a secondary effect we see victarion's new fuming hand.

The interesting part is if like aerea there are eggs of this worms inside victarion's hand and when they hatch will burn victarion from the inside out, after all moqorro has seen glory for victarion in his fires...

what do you guys think?

Hard to see where and how Mo would carry around the larva.  

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Both fire and ice have their methods for slowing death.  The heat would stop the infection but the flesh will also take damage.  In the cold it's gangrene.  In fire healing, it's called cooking.  Medium rare. 

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